Could they void the PL due to the Coronavirus? | No | Resuming June 17th

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Bring up Leeds, West Brom. Have the other four do their playoff somehow some way(empty stadium,indoors,whatever). Give the title to the obvious champions -Liverpool. Play next season with a shorter schedule and 23 teams. At the end of next season 6 go down. 3 come up.

you should give up mate. Start accepting the fact that there’s a very real chance that Liverpool won’t be champions - it will be easier when it happens.

One thing I can be certain of is that no club will be awarded a title without them actually winning it, and to be 100% clear that means Liverpool will it be champions if there are no more league games this season

Alternatively, let’s just change everything so that Liverpool can win the league You lot are just:

a. Far too easy to wind up
b. Deluded to think anyone actually cares. They don’t. There are Ono or two more important things going on.
c. Unbelievably selfish in trying to suggest anything and everything so that you can win the title rather than even consider the wider football and societal picture.

 

[Wibble]

Bring up Leeds, West Brom. Have the other four do their playoff somehow some way(empty stadium,indoors,whatever). Give the title to the obvious champions -Liverpool. Play next season with a shorter schedule and 23 teams. At the end of next season 6 go down. 3 come up.

If you make Liverpool champions based on the existing standings you have to do that for the whole league. CL places, relegation and promotion. If they did that lawsuits would be flying.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Bring up Leeds, West Brom. Have the other four do their playoff somehow some way(empty stadium,indoors,whatever). Give the title to the obvious champions -Liverpool. Play next season with a shorter schedule and 23 teams. At the end of next season 6 go down. 3 come up.

Whilst Liverpool would as you say ‘obviously’ win the league Citeh could still mathematically do so - so as much as you might not like it, you can’t give a team the title because they ‘will’ do something. If the title can’t be won on the pitch then you simply cannot hand the title out because something is ‘likely’ to happen.

If the league can’t finish by the time the next one is due to begin then there is no other choice than to void the season. What’s the point playing this season to a finish to absolutely bastardise the following season - more teams, less games, what does this look like? You’d rather complete this season so that next season 23 teams are in the league but each team doesn’t play each other twice!?

Impacting two seasons is honestly the worst choice. If [& it’s a huge if] the season can start a fresh in August it must do so.

 

[caid]

If you make Liverpool champions based on the existing standings you have to do that for the whole league. CL places, relegation and promotion. If they did that lawsuits would be flying.

You could make an exception for liverpool if you're feeling really generous. But yeah taking the current standings as definitive would be an utterly stupid way of resolving every single other league placement in every league.

 

[UncleBob]

You could make an exception for liverpool if you're feeling really generous. But yeah taking the current standings as definitive would be an utterly stupid way of resolving every single other league placement in every league.

The entire top 4 nor the bottom isn't mathematically decided, finishing on current standings would be madness. Chelsea have to play City, Wolves, Liverpool and are only 3 points ahead of us.

 

[caid]

The entire top 4 nor the bottom isn't mathematically decided, finishing on current standings would be madness. Chelsea have to play City, Wolves, Liverpool and are only 3 points ahead of us.

Yup, one of a mountain of examples of why it would be a stupid idea

 

[Tel074]

Bring up Leeds, West Brom. Have the other four do their playoff somehow some way(empty stadium,indoors,whatever). Give the title to the obvious champions -Liverpool. Play next season with a shorter schedule and 23 teams. At the end of next season 6 go down. 3 come up.

What a load of nonsense haha. Just give Liverpool the title just promote 2 clubs . You have to win these things not just be handed them . Granted Liverpool have earned the title but they haven't won it yet and those 2 clubs just can't be promoted.

 

[Sweet Square]

Last tory bashing of the night, I promise.

 

[MackRobinson]

The season will be finished. Over 75% of games were played and with the Euros moving to 2021 the calendar is clear. There is just too much money at stake from a top 4 and relegation standpoint to void the season. Really has nothing to do with Liverpool.

And yes the season will probably have an asterisk.

 

[UncleBob]

Yup, one of a mountain of examples of why it would be a stupid idea

By all means, if the rules stated it then fine enough, but arguing it as the most sensible decision now would be a stretch at best. It's not finished by any means for quite a lot of the teams, if the league can't be played out due to force majeure then it should be null and void as i can't see any outcome where they aren't playing favourites.

 

[UncleBob]

The season will be finished. Over 75% of games were played and with the Euros moving to 2021 the calendar is clear. There is just too much money at stake from a top 4 and relegation standpoint to void the season. Really has nothing to do with Liverpool.

And yes the season will probably have an asterisk.

There's a pretty big issue in terms of player contracts, transfer window, clubs potentially going bankrupt over this.

 

[MackRobinson]

There's a pretty big issue in terms of player contracts, transfer window, clubs potentially going bankrupt over this.

If anything the summer break will be cut short (ie. this is the summer break) and the domestic cups will be cancelled.

Also creditors/landlords aren't stupid, they will most likely extend lines of credit and delay payment dates due to the virus. If they attempt to act of delinquent payments they know they will collect pennies on the dollar. They are better off waiting to see what happens.

 

[UncleBob]

If anything the summer break will be cut short (ie. this is the summer break) and the domestic cups will be cancelled.

Also creditors/landlords aren't stupid, they will most likely extend lines of credit and delay payment dates due to the virus. If they attempt to act of delinquent payments they know they will collect pennies on the dollar. They are better off waiting to see what happens.

They can cut the break as short as they want, there's still the issues with contracts and the transfer window

 

[mannbeist]

Think there is a bigger chance next season will be cancelled than this one.

To much money in play, and possible lawsuits. My guess will be that this season will be finished, and next season will be cut short, by eliminating domestic cups, and cutting the CL and EL short by only having knockout stages. Will also probably cut out all the international dates. By doing this next season easily can start as late as the start of october.

 

[Wibble]

Scousers will be furious as would most clubs/fans in their position but I can't see how they can award them the league and then do something else for everyone else. If they do the same for everyone else then PL places, relegation and promotion will be a clusterfeck no matter what decision is made. You can't finish a season after the end of June for numerous reasons so what is left? Season is null and void.

Of course that doesn't meant that will happen in these uncertain times.

 

[mannbeist]

They can cut the break as short as they want, there's still the issues with contracts and the transfer window

Dont think the transfer window will be that much of an issue. It will just be extended. It might be the least complicated thing in all of this.

 

[Wibble]

Think there is a bigger chance next season will be cancelled than this one.

To much money in play, and possible lawsuits. My guess will be that this season will be finished, and next season will be cut short, by eliminating domestic cups, and cutting the CL and EL short by only having knockout stages. Will also probably cut out all the international dates. By doing this next season easily can start as late as the start of october.

But this season has to be finished, decided or voided by the end of June you would think. So many players out of contract and all sorts of other legal and financial considerations make me think there is no way the season can be extended beyond the end of June.

 

[MackRobinson]

They can cut the break as short as they want, there's still the issues with contracts and the transfer window

1) Teams with players with expiring contracts can negotiate short term extensions and I doubt that Premier League clubs have very many key players who meet this criteria.
2) The PL and the rest of the European Leagues would certainly modify the transfer window

 

[mannbeist]

But this season has to be finished, decided or voided by the end of June.

Is this written in stone, and cant be regulated? dont know the rules, so are just asking.

Even if it is, this is a special situation, and can see them bending it if needed.

 

[UncleBob]

1) Teams with players with expiring contracts can negotiate short term extensions and I doubt that Premier League clubs have very many key players who meet this criteria.
2) The PL and the rest of the European Leagues would certainly modify the transfer window

1) Why does it have to be a key player ?
2) Why is every league going to modify the transfer window to suit England ?

 

[UncleBob]

Dont think the transfer window will be that much of an issue. It will just be extended. It might be the least complicated thing in all of this.

Extended how, the point here is that some clubs will be worse after losing players while some will strengthen.

 

[Redcy]

The season will be finished. Over 75% of games were played and with the Euros moving to 2021 the calendar is clear. There is just too much money at stake from a top 4 and relegation standpoint to void the season. Really has nothing to do with Liverpool.

And yes the season will probably have an asterisk.

Except the calendar isnt clear, UEFA have said specifically they want next season to start on time. The only way that happens is if we get a resolution by June time, and it is just pretty unlikely right now. With 9 games to play I would suggest the minimum for that will be 6 weeks, and in a week or two for everyone to be happy before starting then even being generous we would have to be fully cleared an approved by the beginning of June, thats just over 8 weeks away. Its clear the gov are planning for a minimum of 12 weeks of disruption. All the models suggest June will be the worst peak point, even assuming everyone does the correct thing.

 

[MackRobinson]

1) Why does it have to be a key player ?
2) Why is every league going to modify the transfer window to suit England ?

1) By key player I mean a player who actually plays. If a player isn't playing, then his contract running down doesn't effect a club finishing the season past the window.
2) I didn't say that. I was just pointing out other leagues will most likely try to finish their seasons as well. Regardless, the FA can easily modify the window given the circumstances.

 

[Redcy]

1) Teams with players with expiring contracts can negotiate short term extensions and I doubt that Premier League clubs have very many key players who meet this criteria.
2) The PL and the rest of the European Leagues would certainly modify the transfer window

1) Have you not seen how complex contracts and other things are, what about the modern footballer or agent makes you think they are "in it for the glory" in the majority of cases?
2) I would agree transfer window may well be the least complex thing in principle

However again we are not going to see them:

1) abandon next year, you really expect them to kill next season for a handful of games this year just so we can sort this out for Liverpool?
2) Starting late I don't think will be an option, the PL will not be taking 3 extra teams imo, we may see things like the Carabao killed though, and they won't mess with the CL format for sponsorhip/tv reasons.

 

[MackRobinson]

Except the calendar isnt clear, UEFA have said specifically they want next season to start on time. The only way that happens is if we get a resolution by June time, and it is just pretty unlikely right now. With 9 games to play I would suggest the minimum for that will be 6 weeks, and in a week or two for everyone to be happy before starting then even being generous we would have to be fully cleared an approved by the beginning of June, thats just over 8 weeks away. Its clear the gov are planning for a minimum of 12 weeks of disruption. All the models suggest June will be the worst peak point, even assuming everyone does the correct thing.

Again exceptions will be made. A much as people refuse to believe it, domestic competitions are more important than UEFA competitions. UEFA is beholden to the will of it's member states, not the other way around.

 

[0le]

It isn't just about finding time to play the games. Some time (maybe a week or two) will be needed to get the players fit again. All the staff members involved aside from the players including chefs/coaches/security etc will need to be around too which is no guarantee.

 

[MackRobinson]

1) Have you not seen how complex contracts and other things are, what about the modern footballer or agent makes you think they are "in it for the glory" in the majority of cases?
2) I would agree transfer window may well be the least complex thing in principle

Go look at the player contracts for PL clubs. How many players, who actually play, will be out of contract June 30? You will see this number isn't very high

However again we are not going to see them:

1) abandon next year, you really expect them to kill next season for a handful of games this year just so we can sort this out for Liverpool?
2) Starting late I don't think will be an option, the PL will not be taking 3 extra teams imo, we may see things like the Carabao killed though, and they won't mess with the CL format for sponsorhip/tv reasons.

1) You are too focused on Liverpool. It's about European places and relegation. And you don't have to kill next season. That is absurd reasoning. Next season can be a) condensed b) shortened c) or extended
2) Starting late is option b/c these contracts can be renegotiated. What the PL and other leagues don't want happening is clubs who miss out on Europe, safety, or promotion suing and putting the following season in jeopardy.

Liverpool are the least of the PL's worry.

 

[Wibble]

Is this written in stone, and cant be regulated? dont know the rules, so are just asking.

Even if it is, this is a special situation, and can see them bending it if needed.

As far as I'm aware there is no rule saying it has to be finished by then but I just can't see them risking extending the season beyond then. Doesn't mean it won't happen of course. I have been wrong before

 

[Wibble]

It isn't just about finding time to play the games. Some time (maybe a week or two) will be needed to get the players fit again. All the staff members involved aside from the players including chefs/coaches/security etc will need to be around too which is no guarantee.

I believe the conventional wisdom is you need to train for as along as you don't train to regain fitness. Some teams are still training but that will change as this gets worse. I think the chances of us finishing this season by playing all of the games before the end of June is close to zero.

 

[Wibble]

The thing that makes me think voiding the season is a real possibility is that Liverpool can't sue as they haven't won it yet and the rest of the teams can't sue as they will all have bee treated equally. Do anything else and the lawyers will be rubbing their hands together with glee. Numerous sides will be able to claim that they were denied promotion, relegated or missed out on European places when the season was far from over. Barring the almost certainty of Liverpool winning even 2nd and 3rd aren't nailed on and below that there are only 9 points between 4th and 11th. Bournmouth would be relegated with 27 points, the same number of points as the 2 teams above them. Then there are the promotion places from the Championships that need play-offs that can't happen.

Extend beyond the end of June and contracts become a nightmare. Plus transfer windows etc etc etc etc

 

[Strelok]

This is absurd. Shame on Sky and BT for not coming to a reasonable agreement if this does actually happen.

Personally I find this reasonable. It's the same as you go to a restaurant, order a full course dinner. However for some reason the dessert couldn't be served. Of course you wouldn't expect them to give you a full bill I guess?

Same for the new contract. If there's no match there'd be basically no revenue for Sky or BT. Then of course they won't have to pay the PL. They would even lose money because of this. Since lots of people got the packages just to watch the matches, me for example.

 

[MackRobinson]

The thing that makes me think voiding the season is a real possibility is that Liverpool can't sue as they haven't won it yet and the rest of the teams can't sue as they will all have bee treated equally. Do anything else and the lawyers will be rubbing their hands together with glee. Numerous sides will be able to claim that they were denied promotion, relegated or missed out on European places when the season was far from over. Barring the almost certainty of Liverpool winning even 2nd and 3rd aren't nailed on and below that there are only 9 points between 4th and 11th. Bournmouth would be relegated with 27 points, the same number of points as the 2 teams above them. Then there are the promotion places from the Championships that need play-offs that can't happen.

Extend beyond the end of June and contracts become a nightmare. Plus transfer windows etc etc etc etc

Villa are in the relegation zone with a game in hand. Arsenal are in 9th with a game in hand. Sheffield United in 5th with a game in hand. Again Liverpool are an easy case. It's all the other places up for grabs. Voiding a season that is 75%+ complete is a legal and financial nightmare, not to mention the ramifications in terms of sponsorships.

It's much easier to finish all the domestic seasons the season even if it is condensed to 4 weeks and runs into August, let contracts run out, and delay the transfer window and subsequent season.

 

[Greck]

Go look at the player contracts for PL clubs. How many players, who actually play, will be out of contract June 30? You will see this number isn't very high


1) You are too focused on Liverpool. It's about European places and relegation. And you don't have to kill next season. That is absurd reasoning. Next season can be a) condensed b) shortened c) or extended
2) Starting late is option b/c these contracts can be renegotiated. What the PL and other leagues don't want happening is clubs who miss out on Europe, safety, or promotion suing and putting the following season in jeopardy.

Liverpool are the least of the PL's worry.

As far as logistics go contract dates are just about the least difficult thing to modify in all of this. If we get to the point where it's the biggest problem then it means resuming the season is close

 

[MackRobinson]

As far as logistics go contract dates are just about the least difficult thing to modify in all of this. If we get to the point where it's the biggest problem then it means resuming the season is as close to a done deal as possible

Agreed. I don't think a lot of people calling for voiding the season understand the legal ramifications from just voiding the season. That is literally the worst case scenario for domestic leagues and UEFA.

 

[Greck]

Agreed. I don't think a lot of people calling for voiding the season understand the legal ramifications from just voiding the season. That is literally the worst case scenario for domestic leagues and UEFA.

Not saying legal obligations keep them from voiding/resuming the season, it very likely may or may not, we haven't seen these contracts ourselves. That particular post was more saying contracts expiries won't be that much of a problem if they do decide they want to resume. Contracts aren't hard to modify if both sides are willing

 

[jymufc20]

P.S off topic, but did you keep your kids off in the end mate?

Yeah mate, I think it was for the best pal. How about you ?

 

[MackRobinson]

Not saying legal obligations keep them from voiding/resuming the season, it very likely may or may not, we haven't seen these contracts ourselves. That particular post was more saying contracts expiries won't be that much of a problem if they do decide they want to resume. Contracts aren't hard to modify if both sides are willing

I don't disagree with anything you said. I was just saying if the choice is voiding the season or delaying it, the ramifications of the former is worse for the FA.

 

[Strelok]

Agreed. I don't think a lot of people calling for voiding the season understand the legal ramifications from just voiding the season. That is literally the worst case scenario for domestic leagues and UEFA.

From my point continuing the leagues or stop here then give teams relegation, CL spot, winner etc based on their current standings have no less legal ramification than voiding the league. What if a player is dead or have their career affected because they decided to play on ? It'd be endless lawsuits as well.

Let's take a closer look at what's at stake for every sides here:

1. Uefa, PL or all sort of governing football organizations:
- They would lose a lot of money if the season can't be finished and voided. For example the PL would lose £750m. However I don't think the clubs would sue them since it's kinda fair for every club.

- If they decide to finish the season at all cost, they also would face serious legal issues if any player is dead or got their career affected because of this. In this case the club of such player would sue them as well since their asset is affected. Imagine the scandal and what the press, everyone would say against them in such case. However they will get the money. And avoid any legal issue from their partners.

- If they decide to stop the league and reward teams based on their current standing. They would both still lose money and face many serious lawsuits. Especially with the relegated clubs or CL spots. And their partners. Imo this is the least possible scenario.

2. The teams:
- Their interests vary greatly. Liverpool would love to finish the league. Possible relegated ones would love to void the leagues.

- They would lose money and small clubs even would got bankrupt if the leagues are stopped or voided. So it's in their interest to play on.

- However for bigger clubs it's more complicated. Of course they would love to continue the leagues because of the money. On the other hand the players are their assets as well. And they are worth millions. What if some player are dead or got his career destroyed because of this? And his family or his closed ones? And fans and players would say the club valuates money over the safety of their players.

3. The players:
- Of course most of them would not want to play. Especially the big ones. They're earning millions and there's no reason to risk their lives, the lives of their closed ones nor their careers. They're still getting paid anyway.

In the end it's just depended on how the virus situation would be in the next three months. Imo only in case the government declares the country is free from the virus then the leagues would resume. Only in this scenario the responsablities would fall over to the government if any player dies. Otherwise eventually Uefa and all football governing bodies will have to decide to void all the leagues and accept to lose the money. You still could earn money later once the virus is gone anyway.

 

[MackRobinson]

- If they decide to finish the season at all cost, they also would face serious legal issues if any player is dead or got their career affected because of this. In this case the club of such player would sue them as well since their asset is affected. Imagine the scandal and what the press, everyone would say against them in such case. However they will get the money. And avoid any legal issue from their partners.

I don't understand this point. Why would a player be dead. We are talking about resuming the season when it is safe to continue.

If they decide to stop the league and reward teams based on their current standing. They would both still lose money and face many serious lawsuits. Especially with the relegated clubs or CL spots. And their partners. Imo this is the least possible scenario.

Never argued this so it's entirely moot

- Their interests vary greatly. Liverpool would love to finish the league. Possible relegated ones would love to void the leagues.

Clubs also forfeit match day revenue. Even the relegated ones (who haven't even been relegated yet in PL)

However for bigger clubs it's more complicated. Of course they would love to continue the leagues because of the money. On the other hand the players are their assets as well. And they are worth millions. What if some player are dead or got his career destroyed because of this? And his family or his closed ones? And fans and players would say the club valuates money over the safety of their players.

Again I have no clue what point you are trying to make. This is under the assumption it is ok to continue.

- Of course most of them would not want to play. Especially the big ones. They're earning millions and there's no reason to risk their lives, the lives of their closed ones nor their careers. They're still getting paid anyway.

Silly assumption. Players are awarded bonuses based on league positions and many on them are simply competitors who want to play football at the highest level to secure better contracts, play in Europe and/or a better league the following season.

In the end it's just depended on how the virus situation would be in the next three months. Imo only in case the government declares the country is free from the virus then the leagues would resume. Only in this scenario the responsablities would fall over to the government if any player dies. Otherwise eventually Uefa and all football governing bodies will have to decide to void all the leagues and accept to lose the money. You still could earn money later once the virus is gone anyway.

The assumption was always when it is fine to play again. The bolded is pointless if clubs are forced into bankruptcy.

 

[Strelok]

I don't understand this point. Why would a player be dead. We are talking about resuming the season when it is safe to continue.

Again I have no clue what point you are trying to make. This is under the assumption it is ok to continue.

The assumption was always when it is fine to play again. The bolded is pointless if clubs are forced into bankruptcy.

Because there was nothing in your post or the post you quoted said so ? Could you point to anything in your post would show what you said is under the assumption when it's fine to play ?

Silly assumption. Players are awarded bonuses based on league positions and many on them are simply competitors who want to play football at the highest level to secure better contracts, play in Europe and/or a better league the following season.

You think that kind of money or glory is more important than the your live, the live of your closed ones or your whole career? Yes/No answer please.