SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[Foxbatt]

It's a bit more complicated than that of trying to hide it. People may think that China is a one man show but it's fairly decentralised too. Each province and city are fairly autonomous in things like health care etc. Even the police is local.
So the information I got was the authorities in Wuhan didn't believe what the doctors were saying. It's not the central government in Beijing. I think the authorities in Wuhan was scared that if Beijing finds out they will lose their jobs.
Once the central government found out the seriousness of the issue they took over from the local authorities.
In fact the Chinese high court has reprimanded the Wuhan police for threatening the whistle blower doctor who unfortunately gave his life for trying to save other lives.
That said the rest of the world should follow their advice because they have gone through it and won so far. I know the European countries are very grateful for the help China is providing them now.

 

[0le]

I think I've been pretty clear than the entire world has handled this very, very poorly. As for China being bad, I have two colleagues - one from Shanghai and one from Hong Kong who were in the heart of the outbreak, and they're pretty much disgusted with their country. Not only from a hygiene perspective, but one of my colleagues dismisses almost all positive news coming out of China.

Something related mentioned on the BBC:

A wave of anger and grief flooded Chinese social media site Weibo when news of Dr Li's death broke late on Thursday.

The top two trending hashtags on the website were "Wuhan government owes Dr Li Wenliang and apology" and "We want freedom of speech".

Both hashtags were quickly censored. When the BBC searched Weibo on Friday morning, hundreds of thousands of comments had already been wiped.

Many have now taken to posting under the hashtag "Can you manage, do you understand?" - a reference to the letter Dr Li was told to sign where he was accused of disturbing "social order".

Only a handful of critical comments now remain - many of which do not directly name him - but are an indication of the mounting anger and distrust towards the Chinese government.

"Do not forget how you feel now. Do not forget this anger. We must not let this happen again," said one comment on Weibo.

"The truth will always be treated as a rumour. How long are you going to lie? Are you still lying? What else do you have to hide?" another said.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Damn,Simon Pegg looks old.

 

[Hound Dog]

Even my mid-January they were saying that it is doesn't spread human to human. They were trying to protect their economy by controlling the information (as in 'move along, nothing to see here').

So basically the same that everyone else have done. Rather short-sighted (also in regards to threir economy), but not malicious.

 

[Wumminator]

We are on a steeper curve than Italy according to the Financial Times.

Boris announces school closures... then says that if a child has one (of two) parents who is a teacher, teaching assistant, NHS worker, food delivery worker etc they should go in. Hence that isn’t working.
Politely asks people to stop going pub. His own Dad goes on tv to say he’ll be going anyway.
He had an “expert” on tv yesterday saying this could go down ina few weeks.
Absolutely horrendous from the Pm.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

We are on a steeper curve than Italy according to the Financial Times.

Boris announces school closures... then says that if a child has one (of two) parents who is a teacher, teaching assistant, NHS worker, food delivery worker etc they should go in. Hence that isn’t working.
Politely asks people to stop going pub. His own Dad goes on tv to say he’ll be going anyway.
He had an “expert” on tv yesterday saying this could go down ina few weeks.
Absolutely horrendous from the Pm.

Sorry to say, the deaths will rack up soon. Humanity is failing.

 

[sullydnl]

 

[Di Maria's angel]

What grates me is when I hear people around me talk about how hard it is to isolate. Holy feck, you have a roof on your head, food, entertainment etc. and you can't sacrifice your social life to save lives?

 

[Revan]

So basically the same that everyone else have done. Rather short-sighted (also in regards to threir economy), but not malicious.

Everyone else has no idea cause it was only there. They thought (hoped) that it was just another SARS, and were trying to cover up. When the lockdown happened, it was already game over for them and the world, the genie was out of the bottle. They announced the lockdown just 2 days (if I am not mistaken, correct me if I am wrong) after claiming that there is no evidence that the virus transmits human to human. That is a faster policy change than that of UK's.

They did a stellar job since then (assuming that they are not lying in the first place, which is never a safe assumption when it comes to China), but this has been primarily China's fault and their gift to humanity. Sorry for not thanking them that they are selling masks to Italy.

 

[RedSky]

Is it because Madrid in particular has got hit badly? Not really sure why they've accelerated so much compared to everyone else? Over double mortality rate is extreme.

UK Dates​	UK Deaths​	Italy Dates​	Italy Deaths​	Spain Dates​	Spain Deaths​
March 8th​	3​	Feb 23rd​	3​	March 5th​	3​
March 9th​	5​	Feb 24th​	7​	March 6th​	8​
March 10th​	6​	Feb 25th​	11​	March 7th​	10​
March 11th​	8​	Feb 26th​	12​	March 8th​	17​
March 12th​	10​	Feb 27th​	17​	March 9th​	30​
March 13th​	11​	Feb 28th​	21​	March 10th​	36​
March 14th​	21​	Feb 29th​	29​	March 11th​	55​
March 15th​	35​	March 1st​	41​	March 12th​	86​
March 16th​	55​	March 2nd​	52​	March 13th​	133​
March 17th​	71​	March 3rd​	79​	March 14th​	196​
March 18th​	104​	March 4th​	107​	March 15th​	294​
March 19th​	144​	March 5th​	148​	March 16th​	342​
-​	-​	March 6th​	197​	March 17th​	533​
-​	-​	March 7th​	233​	March 18th​	638​
-​	-​	March 8th​	366​	March 19th​	830​

​

 

[vodrake]

Boris asking if he can copy the other boys homework

 

[Utdstar01]

So...this means we close pubs/clubs and nonessential shops?

 

[SuperiorXI]

So...this means we close pubs/clubs and nonessential shops?

As much as possible for fecks sake.

 

[Revan]

On other news, US's is currently the second country that has been hit hardest (after Italy). 4478 new cases today, a large increase from yesterday. By the end of the week, the number of new cases is gonna surpass Italy, and next week people are going to die in the hundreds per day.

 

[Utdstar01]

Is it because Madrid in particular has got hit badly? Not really sure why they've accelerated so much compared to everyone else? Over double mortality rate is extreme.

UK Dates​	UK Deaths​	Italy Dates​	Italy Deaths​	Spain Dates​	Spain Deaths​
March 8th​	3​	Feb 23rd​	3​	March 5th​	3​
March 9th​	5​	Feb 24th​	7​	March 6th​	8​
March 10th​	6​	Feb 25th​	11​	March 7th​	10​
March 11th​	8​	Feb 26th​	12​	March 8th​	17​
March 12th​	10​	Feb 27th​	17​	March 9th​	30​
March 13th​	11​	Feb 28th​	21​	March 10th​	36​
March 14th​	21​	Feb 29th​	29​	March 11th​	55​
March 15th​	35​	March 1st​	41​	March 12th​	86​
March 16th​	55​	March 2nd​	52​	March 13th​	133​
March 17th​	71​	March 3rd​	79​	March 14th​	196​
March 18th​	104​	March 4th​	107​	March 15th​	294​
March 19th​	144​	March 5th​	148​	March 16th​	342​
-​	-​	March 6th​	197​	March 17th​	533​
-​	-​	March 7th​	233​	March 18th​	638​
-​	-​	March 8th​	366​	March 19th​	767​

​

That's pretty scary.

 

[Sweet Square]

As much as Bojo has dropped the ball on this, people have to accept personal accountability.

Agree in the end it's everyone own choice but boy has the messaging been shit.

Damn,Simon Pegg looks old.

He's 50 (Which god makes me feel very old)

 

[TMDaines]

What grates me is when I hear people around me talk about how hard it is to isolate. Holy feck, you have a roof on your head, food, entertainment etc. and you can't sacrifice your social life to save lives?

Don’t know about this. It is easy in practice, and most people have managed or even enjoyed the novelty of the first week, but a lot of organisations are far more worried about the pastoral care of their staff than they are productivity or even their staff getting COVID-19 right now. It’s only just dawning on people that six months to a year of this sort of livestyle is more likely than it blowing over by May.

 

[horsechoker]

 

[adexkola]

What grates me is when I hear people around me talk about how hard it is to isolate. Holy feck, you have a roof on your head, food, entertainment etc. and you can't sacrifice your social life to save lives?

Lives that you don't know?

Not everyone is a social recluse. It's a sacrifice that has to be made but it is not a trivial one.

 

[Samid]

Is it because Madrid in particular has got hit badly? Not really sure why they've accelerated so much compared to everyone else? Over double mortality rate is extreme.

UK Dates​	UK Deaths​	Italy Dates​	Italy Deaths​	Spain Dates​	Spain Deaths​
March 8th​	3​	Feb 23rd​	3​	March 5th​	3​
March 9th​	5​	Feb 24th​	7​	March 6th​	8​
March 10th​	6​	Feb 25th​	11​	March 7th​	10​
March 11th​	8​	Feb 26th​	12​	March 8th​	17​
March 12th​	10​	Feb 27th​	17​	March 9th​	30​
March 13th​	11​	Feb 28th​	21​	March 10th​	36​
March 14th​	21​	Feb 29th​	29​	March 11th​	55​
March 15th​	35​	March 1st​	41​	March 12th​	86​
March 16th​	55​	March 2nd​	52​	March 13th​	133​
March 17th​	71​	March 3rd​	79​	March 14th​	196​
March 18th​	104​	March 4th​	107​	March 15th​	294​
March 19th​	144​	March 5th​	148​	March 16th​	342​
-​	-​	March 6th​	197​	March 17th​	533​
-​	-​	March 7th​	233​	March 18th​	638​
-​	-​	March 8th​	366​	March 19th​	767​

​

Spain have a few more than that.

 

[Revan]

Lives that you don't know?

Not everyone is a social recluse. It's a sacrifice that has to be made but it is not a trivial one.

If we consider the gravity of the situation (IMO, similar to that of WW2), it is an absolutely trivial one.

 

[RedSky]

Spain have a few more than that.

That was from this afternoon. I hadn't bothered to check this evening as I tend to do it at lunchtime as I prefer to not look at this shit in the evening. I'll update it anyway now.

 

[SuperiorXI]

Sobering thought, I loaded this page an hour or so ago: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

I thought it automatically updated. I was wrong. I refreshed it and 5 more people dead.

What in the feck.

13 more.

 

[Revan]

Zuckerberg doing an interview with Fauci:

 

[bosnian_red]

13 more.

In the entire world population... Easy there. People die every second of every day somewhere in the world.

 

[dwd]

13 more.

Try not to focus on that, it will drive you mad.

 

[FootballHQ]

Germany is incredible so far.

 

[africanspur]

Concerning updates from the NHS recently:

-The PHE guidance is now that we use surgical masks even in confirmed cases
-We are already starting to get inpatient transmission
-We are no longer contact tracing....which means we're seeing patients who develop covid....and then not getting tested ourselves. So we're either self isolating for 14 days if we get symptoms or working and potentially continuing to spread
-Some hospitals in London are already starting to use theatres for intensive care space
-I have old professors/ colleagues who bloody specialise in epidemiology, outbreak control, public health etc etc. Until very recently, none of them were contacted and almost nobody of real significance in the field was really contacted, even though we have quite a few experts in the UK. Really concerning approach from the UK.
-While the consensus from the aforementioned colleagues seems to be that Prof Whitty is genuinely excellent, the opinion of Prof Vallance is significantly less glowing.
-People are stealing from the NHS. Whether its staff members or visitors (likely a mixture of both), alcohol gel, gloves, masks, wipes are all disappearing en masse.
-It feels like we're in the calm before the storm. At least in many London hospitals, we have stopped essentially all elective services. We are rewriting protocols.

There's definitely more but I'm a bit tired right now if I'm honest.

Some reading for those really interested:

The excellent Ferguson paper which supposedly brought about the change in tack from the UK and US.

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/im...-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf

WHO report on China's response (still working my way through):

https://www.who.int/docs/default-so...na-joint-mission-on-covid-19-final-report.pdf

People need to wise up I think. I would still advocate against hysteria and I think the panic buying is ridiculous but people living their lives completely as normal is mind boggling to me.

 

[Paxi]

 

[Arruda]

Zuckerberg doing an interview with Fauci:

I'm starting to like this Fauci fellow. I thought his first intervention was terrible, but am now thinking he knew very well the people around him and had he acted differently maybe he wouldn't be doing his job now.

 

[The Firestarter]

Zuckerberg doing an interview with Fauci:

Multiverse C138

 

[Irwin99]

A 34-year-old man has died in California after testing positive of coronavirus just days ago, and 2 weeks after visiting Walt Disney World and Universal Studios in Florida.

Jeffrey Ghazarian from Glendora, CA, died Thursday morning at a Pasadena hospital after spending 5 days hooked up to a ventilator and battling for his life ... according to his family.

Jeff's timeline regarding his COVID-19 infection is terrifying and should be eye-opening for people of all ages. According to his family, he flew from L.A. to Orlando on March 2 for a work conference, but stayed a few extra days to visit Disney World and Universal theme parks with friends.

We're told on March 7 he developed a cough, and the next day he coughed up blood. He flew back to LAX on March 9 ... and immediately went to the ER, where he also had a high fever.

The family says a chest x-ray confirmed Jeff had pneumonia, and he was tested for COVID-19 and sent home with fluids and antibiotics and instructed to self-quarantine until he got the results back.

We're told the results came back positive on March 13, and Jeff was provided a portable oxygen meter to keep an eye on his levels ... which took a turn for the worse that afternoon.

On March 14 he was taken by ambulance to the hospital and quickly transferred to the ICU when it was discovered his lungs were 60-70 percent blocked with pneumonia. Doctors decided the best path forward was to sedate and intubate, hoping a ventilator would help his lungs heal.

Sadly -- and despite the family claiming he was approved for antiviral meds -- the medication was delayed in getting to him, he took a turn for the worse ... and passed away Thursday morning.

It appears Jeffrey was higher-risk patient. He had a history of asthma and frequent bronchitis as a child, though he outgrew that. He also had undergone surgery for testicular cancer back in 2016.

Awful. Poor guy. RIP

 

[hungrywing]

People are failing to grasp that early on they actually could not have been sure that the whistleblower doctor was right.

Or what is the alternative, they actually wanted 80k infected in their own country?

It was a case of poor judgement, sure, but I see no bad intentions in jt.

Not only that, some people make it sound like there was an effort from the central government to shut down things, and that the whistleblower doctor was massively persecuted or something.

By 18 December there were 8 cases of pneumonia of unknown origin or something like that. As a doctor I find it hard to guess how they could have picked up something was wrong far before that. Yet by then it had already been national news in the entire country by state radio so they weren't exactly trying to cover it up. Soon there were international scientists there helping to study the thing.

The whistleblower was probably one of the first few people to realize the true world-changing potential of what was going on and was discredited by the local government, either because they wanted to avoid panic or were just as dumb as western governments have been. He wasn't arrested or anything, he kept working until he got ill and died.

The fact Italy has now surpassed China in terms of deaths (and yes, numbers are reliable, in fact Covid-19 science is as open-source as something can be and the Chinese are part of that) is a testament to how badly our governments have failed us, how people whose job is to keep track of these things either failed at their jobs or or were ignored virtually everywhere.

The below piece, by a very famous author, is an example of how there is Western propaganda in the US very much akin to the WMD in Iraq issue. Lies, lies and misreprensentations to hide their asses.



Pretending what we realized by early January was known by December 1st. Cnut.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/china-trolling-world-and-avoiding-blame/608332/

It's proper to give them the benefit of the doubt, particularly regarding the central government's actions. But at the same time for anyone casually reading, it's important to be aware of a particular foible of Chinese govt: local bureaucracies have a considerable bit of autonomy. Major example: the degree of religion suppression can differ between provinces. It's very possible (IMO extremely likely) that the scenario posted by Foxbatt is what happened. So posts like the above are probably best read together with the one below.

It's a bit more complicated than that of trying to hide it. People may think that China is a one man show but it's fairly decentralised too. Each province and city are fairly autonomous in things like health care etc. Even the police is local.
So the information I got was the authorities in Wuhan didn't believe what the doctors were saying. It's not the central government in Beijing. I think the authorities in Wuhan was scared that if Beijing finds out they will lose their jobs.
Once the central government found out the seriousness of the issue they took over from the local authorities.
In fact the Chinese high court has reprimanded the Wuhan police for threatening the whistle blower doctor who unfortunately gave his life for trying to save other lives.
That said the rest of the world should follow their advice because they have gone through it and won so far. I know the European countries are very grateful for the help China is providing them now.

 

[Camilo]

In the entire world population... Easy there. People die every second of every day somewhere in the world.

Exactly. We're talking TINY amounts of people here. It's not worth watching the numbers, because these numbers are very difficult for most people to contextualise.

 

[Revan]

I'm starting to like this Fauci fellow. I thought his first intervention was terrible, but am now thinking he knew very well the people around him and had he acted differently maybe he wouldn't be doing his job now.

I think he had an impossible job. Essentially, he has been prepared for 30 years for this to happen, and it happens at a time when there was a moron as his boss. He could have easily criticized Trump when Trump called it a flu or the number will soon go to 0, and then get fired with some clueless yes man being put in charge and then a catastrophe happening. So, he was diplomatic, while at the same time being very clear on his answers, and even criticizing when needed (like saying that the lack of testing was a failure).

He seems a very positive person and doing the best he can. The fact that he is at an age (79 years old) when getting the bug is easily a death sentence, but still working in such a demanding (and risky) job deserves utter respect.

 

[Suedesi]

Germany has 0.23% fatality rate, by far the lowest from all countries with over 1000 infections. I am saying this every day, but this is extremely weird and I am surprised why no one (researchers, media) are not talking about this. They either don't know to count, or there is something more going on. Which as of now, I see four possibilities (in decreasing order of likelihood):

1) They are counting deaths differently. In Italy, if you are 100 years old and have all three of cancer, AIDS and diabates, and then get covid19 and die, you still count a death from covid19. Is this true for Germany or not?

2) They are doing more testings than other countries (apparently), so maybe their number is correct, while the number of other countries is wrong. So if Germany has same cases as Spain, but 20-30 times less deaths, then the real number of infected people in Spain is 20-30 times higher. This is very good news for the world, it means that the virus is much less lethal than we thought.

3) The virus there has mutated to something less lethal. Why only there?

4) Beer is superior to wine. Germans drink beer, Italians, Spanish and French drink wine.

5) There must be different strains out there. Some people test positive and have no symptoms, others get it and are down for the count. Or another crazy theory.... maybe Italians are more susceptible , something with their physiology/genetics.

Personally I think it's 2)

 

[Sweet Square]

 

[Sarni]

They tested 120 NBA players for coronavirus, all without any significant symptoms. 7 tested positive. I’ve been saying this, there must be millions of cases unaccounted for.

Actually it’s 10 already out of 135 I think.

 

[SuperiorXI]

Exactly. We're talking TINY amounts of people here. It's not worth watching the numbers, because these numbers are very difficult for most people to contextualise.

It's definitely worth watching the numbers.

 

[2cents]