Could they void the PL due to the Coronavirus? | No | Resuming June 17th

Dumbstar said:
the primary aim of the matchday experience is the result
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No. If it was, you could claim a refund if your team lost. This kind of logic is just stupid.

Edit: Also, this kind of logic would mean that the clubs could not charge you for a friendly. When you pay for a ticket, you pay to get acces to an event. It should really not be that hard to understand.
 
ReddBalls said:
No. If it was, you could claim a refund if your team lost. This kind of logic is just stupid.

Edit: Also, this kind of logic would mean that the clubs could not charge you for a friendly. When you pay for a ticket, you pay to get acces to an event. It should really not be that hard to understand.
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A loss is a result, why would you get a refund for that?
 
Claiming the primary aim of match day is the result is like claiming the primary aim of life is an obituary.

But Dumbstar is all good, I like that guy.
 
I don't want next season to be curtailed because of this obsession to finish this season. I don't know why few journalist are obsessed with completing the season. They keep mentioning something about integrity of football. League got cancelled because it couldn't complete in stipulated period of time due to global catastrophic incident. How is integrity of football is damaged because of that?

I know it sucks for Liverpool, but do I care? Absolutely not.
 
Dumbstar said:
Fair point, but an easy rebuttal by any lawyer: the primary aim of the matchday experience is the result. Everything else is secondary to that result. If there is now no result then there was no matchday experience. It's not a film at a cinema.

@Cloud7 made an interesting point above that attending the event may constitute as the whole package. Will have to see the small prints coming out on Twitter soon.
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You’re fighting your fight in a reasonable way, unlike Megaman, so I can’t fault you too much, but I think this is the flimsiest thread you could cling to mate. There are stronger ones.

I’m no lawyer but I’m willing to bet that a result being voided after the fact is by no means grounds to claim a refund. I think the issue is after the fact. I don’t doubt there may be something in there about a refund if a match has to be cancelled on the day, which again I think ties in to the attendance of the event, nor the result, but it just doesn’t make sense for there to be any loophole whereby this will work.
 
Cloud7 said:
I’m no lawyer but I’m willing to bet that a result being voided after the fact is by no means grounds to claim a refund. I think the issue is after the fact. I don’t doubt there may be something in there about a refund if a match has to be cancelled on the day, which again I think ties in to the attendance of the event, nor the result, but it just doesn’t make sense for there to be any loophole whereby this will work.
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Indeed. There have actually been occasions in the past where results of football matches were voided. For instance, if a team used a player who was ineligible through suspension or something like that. Fans paid for tickets, saw the match - only for the result to be cancelled later on. Never saw anyone talking about refunding money.
 
Dumbstar said:
A loss is a result, why would you get a refund for that?
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I too appreciate the attempt by you particularly too offer it as a possibility, but there is no way any court upholds it. Unless the T&Cs specifically mention in the event of a voiding of the game you will be refunded, the idea its tied into the result, nope not gonna stand up imo. As someone said there are plenty of other ways to try and fight it, I just dont think this one would be the way to do it.
 
noodlehair said:
It is unprecedented but numbers don't change or lie. PL clubs get enough money through TV revenue to ride this out for more than 1 week without having to take basic wages away from their workers as a precaution. I find it quite bizarre. They all have significant cash flow which will only have stopped within the last few weeks, all have guaranteed future revenue through tv deals, gate receipts, and multi million pound assets in the form of their players.
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The TV revenue isn't guaranteed at all, at least for the specified amounts. Sky and BT will be losing a lot of customers and money over this, in the short and long term.

Go look at how ITV Digital's guaranteed money worked out for the football league.
 
ReddBalls said:
I misread you on that. Care to comment on the rest?
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The friendly game will be advertised up front as such. You wouldn't be paying 3-4 thousand pounds season ticket to go watch those. Maybe a one off ticket. Similarly, you wouldn't pay that much for a weekly stadium tour for 9 months or visiting the cheese room on a regular basis.

Obviously I would have seen the lovely football my team had played for 6 odd months and the roller coaster emotions of scraping a win. Or a loss/draw as the case may be. To be told all of that meant nothing, but hope you enjoyed the club shop and selection of cheeses for your money, well that just doesn't cut it at the season ticket prices that were charged.
 
Redcy said:
I too appreciate the attempt by you particularly too offer it as a possibility, but there is no way any court upholds it. Unless the T&Cs specifically mention in the event of a voiding of the game you will be refunded, the idea its tied into the result, nope not gonna stand up imo. As someone said there are plenty of other ways to try and fight it, I just dont think this one would be the way to do it.
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Which is why I said the clubs, and the hand wringing lawyers, will be looking at this situation carefully. All small prints to soon appear on Twitter no doubt.
 
Pexbo said:
It’s funny how Liverpool fans are pretty much the only fans that actually believe this season has to be finished. It’s almost like they’re not being objective for some reason
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I believe it has to finish aswell.
Who goes down if its not finished? Who goes up? What about Europe?

It has to finish in some way. Voiding it wont happen - and shouldnt happen.
 
A good analogy is rain-affected cricket matches.

Say, a one-day international cricket match (50-overs each) is interrupted after the first 60 (50+10) overs due to sudden rain and the rain does not stop. In some instances, teams may continue to play the game the following day, but by in large, such one-day matches are abandoned. And no winner is declared if the Duckworth Lewis system cannot kick in.

Do the spectators ever get refunded in such a situation? No. (A complete or a sizable washout is different.)
Do cricket boards ever refund TV money for that match ? No.
Are the records from such abandoned matches, like wickets taken and runs scored, erased from history books? No.

This happens all the time in cricket, in every single country. I have never heard anyone say something like “loss of integrity of cricket because of abandonment”.

I am amazed by the sheer number of folks still rambling about “game integrity”. And more so by folks, who are so blindly driven to push a certain agenda. I am equally appalled by the desperation of degenerate leagues across Europe who want to force-feed the wider community into believing that football is an essential commodity. It bloody is not.
 
Sandikan said:
Yep. There's nothing even remotely "weird" at eventually understanding the time has gone for this season.
Id say it's weird and totally unrealistic to think you can play this out forever into tje future.
The only argument is that there "may" be a further wave of virus or this one is still here.
But we'll deal with that if and when.
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A lot of the smaller leagues are already making decisions about what they're doing. No coincidence that the big 4 are taking longer to make decisions, with large broadcasting deals there is a lot more money to lose in cutting the season short.

In the case of the Premier League i think they are holding out until the last minute in the hope of a miracle and that the virus clears up quicker than expected. And also so they can appear to have done everything in their power to finish the season when the inevitable talks with the broadcasters/sponsors takes place to hash out financial settlements.
 
Dumbstar said:
The friendly game will be advertised up front as such. You wouldn't be paying 3-4 thousand pounds season ticket to go watch those. Maybe a one off ticket. Similarly, you wouldn't pay that much for a weekly stadium tour for 9 months or visiting the cheese room on a regular basis.

Obviously I would have seen the lovely football my team had played for 6 odd months and the roller coaster emotions of scraping a win. Or a loss/draw as the case may be. To be told all of that meant nothing, but hope you enjoyed the club shop and selection of cheeses for your money, well that just doesn't cut it at the season ticket prices that were charged.
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Where are you buying a season ticket that costs 3-4 grand a season?
 
Dumbstar said:
Fair point, but an easy rebuttal by any lawyer: the primary aim of the matchday experience is the result. Everything else is secondary to that result. If there is now no result then there was no matchday experience. It's not a film at a cinema.

@Cloud7 made an interesting point above that attending the event may constitute as the whole package. Will have to see the small prints coming out on Twitter soon.
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serious and genuine question - do you honestly think:

a. That season tickets for matches that have been played WILL be refunded?

b. That you personally think that season tickets SHOULD be refunded?

Amir said:
Indeed. There have actually been occasions in the past where results of football matches were voided. For instance, if a team used a player who was ineligible through suspension or something like that. Fans paid for tickets, saw the match - only for the result to be cancelled later on. Never saw anyone talking about refunding money.
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presumably none of these examples ever involved Liverpool supporters!

I can’t see the argument, except to be argumentative.

I doubt a single one of those arguing for a refund have any ‘skin in the game’, I.e they don’t have a season ticket in any case.

I can only presume they are trying to present an issue that’s not even an issue to try and garner support that the ‘season has to be finished at all costs’. Do they not even understand the financial implications of this bizarre train of thought?

I would guarantee if you surveyed fans who actually went to football matches this season (rather than the keyboard warriors on a forum) that at least 99.9% wouldn’t want/ desire or seek a refund for the games that had been played as a result of the season not finishing.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
serious and genuine question - do you honestly think:

a. That season tickets for matches that have been played WILL be refunded?

b. That you personally think that season tickets SHOULD be refunded?



presumably none of these examples ever involved Liverpool supporters!

I can’t see the argument, except to be argumentative.

I doubt a single one of those arguing for a refund have any ‘skin in the game’, I.e they don’t have a season ticket in any case.

I can only presume they are trying to present an issue that’s not even an issue to try and garner support that the ‘season has to be finished at all costs’. Do they not even understand the financial implications of this bizarre train of thought?

I would guarantee if you surveyed fans who actually went to football matches this season (rather than the keyboard warriors on a forum) that at least 99.9% wouldn’t want/ desire or seek a refund for the games that had been played as a result of the season not finishing.
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I want a refund for the games that I probably won’t be able to attend now, unless the club donate that money to the NHS or something. But yeah, it’s insane to expect money back for games you’ve already attended.
 
Phurry said:
Railway stations usually :lol:
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Yeah thats about the only place, any day now he'll be suggesting the rail companies also need to refund the fans because the matches they attended 'didn't happen'.
 
pratyush_utd said:
I don't want next season to be curtailed because of this obsession to finish this season. I don't know why few journalist are obsessed with completing the season. They keep mentioning something about integrity of football. League got cancelled because it couldn't complete in stipulated period of time due to global catastrophic incident. How is integrity of football is damaged because of that?

I know it sucks for Liverpool, but do I care? Absolutely not.
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Sucks for us aswell. One more year of Europa league.

Sucks for Sheffield United too. And Leicester, Leeds and so on and on.

The league wont be voided
 
There is not a world in which someone could out argue a lawyer, that PL level money can buy, that already completed matches should be refunded. This is a ridiculous conversation.
 
stevoc said:
Yeah thats about the only place, any day now he'll be suggesting the rail companies also need to refund the fans because the matches they attended 'didn't happen'.
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I want the money I spent on chips to be refunded. This was food for a match that never happened. As it didn’t happen, I didn’t actually go to the match, and therefore didn't actually eat my chips.
 
Dumbstar said:
Fair point, but an easy rebuttal by any lawyer: the primary aim of the matchday experience is the result. Everything else is secondary to that result. If there is now no result then there was no matchday experience. It's not a film at a cinema.

@Cloud7 made an interesting point above that attending the event may constitute as the whole package. Will have to see the small prints coming out on Twitter soon.
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When people are dying because of a global pandemic, why would anyone be such an arsehole as to wage a legal challenge on this basis?
 
Feed Me said:
When people are dying because of a global pandemic, why would anyone be such an arsehole as to wage a legal challenge on this basis?
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As the chance of the league being abandoned increases so does the level of dipper straw clutching in order to maintain their dream.
 
Aside from season tickets I bet Sky and BT will also receive a few calls if the season gets voided. People will chance their arm to get a full or even partial refund for subs between Aug-Mar on the grounds that games are advertised as competitive and part of a 38 game season.
 
Phurry said:
As the chance of the league being abandoned increases so does the level of dipper straw clutching in order to maintain their dream.
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At this stage, I think it’s worth just giving them the title, purely so we don’t have to listen to the insufferable raft of shite being spouted.
 
Dumbstar said:
I'm not clever enough for law, but these are exceptional times, right? One thing that hasn't changed is that lawyers are money sucking leeches and always will be. Wouldn't they encourage supporters groups to use this 'null and void' scenario to make a bit of money? And obviously they'll fill their own boss too?

This "the season didn't happen" scenario has to be carefully managed I'd imagine.
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There is bound to be a force majeure clause in the T and Cs of your ticket. Every contractual agreement I’ve ever seen has one. Zero chance of this being a problem.
 
Finn MacCool said:
Aside from season tickets I bet Sky and BT will also receive a few calls if the season gets voided. People will chance their arm to get a full or even partial refund for subs between Aug-Mar on the grounds that games are advertised as competitive and part of a 38 game season.
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I have a Sky and BT subscription but won’t be seeking a refund if the season is null and void. Because you can’t legislate for a GLOBAL PANDEMIC THAT IS KILLING THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE, so there’s no way I’d be so petty as to ask broadcasters to give me money back for an unprecedented event totally outside of their control. Christ, have a fecking day off.
 
pratyush_utd said:
I don't want next season to be curtailed because of this obsession to finish this season. I don't know why few journalist are obsessed with completing the season. They keep mentioning something about integrity of football. League got cancelled because it couldn't complete in stipulated period of time due to global catastrophic incident. How is integrity of football is damaged because of that?

I know it sucks for Liverpool, but do I care? Absolutely not.
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Same here, I don't few why the obsession to finish this season except money. The journos are towing that same line which more than ever is showing them all up as merely mouthpieces for the FA/PL putting out their propaganda.
 
Blueman said:
Same here, I don't few why the obsession to finish this season except money. The journos are towing that same line which more than ever is showing them all up as merely mouthpieces for the FA/PL putting out their propaganda.
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The media is heavily pro-Liverpool, hence their stance. I’ve never known such a grubby organisation be so well thought of.
 
Feed Me said:
I have a Sky and BT subscription but won’t be seeking a refund if the season is null and void. Because you can’t legislate for a GLOBAL PANDEMIC THAT IS KILLING THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE, so there’s no way I’d be so petty as to ask broadcasters to give me money back for an unprecedented event totally outside of their control. Christ, have a fecking day off.
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Have a wee cup of tea there mate and chill out.
 
Dumbstar said:
The friendly game will be advertised up front as such. You wouldn't be paying 3-4 thousand pounds season ticket to go watch those. Maybe a one off ticket. Similarly, you wouldn't pay that much for a weekly stadium tour for 9 months or visiting the cheese room on a regular basis.
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I really, really hope you're bored and arguing for arguings sake. It does not matter if it is a season ticket or a one off friendly, it is the same principle. What you pay for is access to an (or mulitple) event(s). "A ticket" is universally understood as exactly that among the world's population, and that includes even the filthiest lawyers and most corrupt judges.

Regarding your last quoted bit: Even if you don't pay as much for a stadium tour, you're still paying.

"Matchday experience" might be an unfortunate wording on my part earlier, but what I was aiming at was that what you pay for is "the experience of attending a game of football."

I don't see any point in discussing this further.
 
Finn MacCool said:
Have a wee cup of tea there mate and chill out.
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No, I won’t chill out. It’s so tiresome seeing the arguments being ventured by LFC fans in an attempt to reassure yourselves that the season won’t be voided. I wouldn’t even mind, but it’s all illogical nonsense.
 
Feed Me said:
No, I won’t chill out. It’s so tiresome seeing the arguments being ventured by LFC fans in an attempt to reassure yourselves that the season won’t be voided. I wouldn’t even mind, but it’s all illogical nonsense.
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Well sure it will come out in the wash. I’m fairly relaxed about it, just can’t see a void. It will either be played out bcd or they’ll find some way to make current placings final. No solution is ideal, they all have drawbacks.
 
Dumbstar said:
Fair point, but an easy rebuttal by any lawyer: the primary aim of the matchday experience is the result. Everything else is secondary to that result. If there is now no result then there was no matchday experience. It's not a film at a cinema.

@Cloud7 made an interesting point above that attending the event may constitute as the whole package. Will have to see the small prints coming out on Twitter soon.
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The "event"? A showcase to finish off the PL, guarantee PL profits for the season, make sure LFC and Leeds get what they deserve, guarantee the global product sales off the back of an LFC win..... Players earning ££££k, clubs earning their prize money. All of it stinks of money. I work on the front line though so I am bound to think these things. But it fkin stinks.
 
Finn MacCool said:
Well sure it will come out in the wash. I’m fairly relaxed about it, just can’t see a void. It will either be played out bcd or they’ll find some way to make current placings final. No solution is ideal, they all have drawbacks.
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Like I said earlier, I’d be happy to see you crowned champions right here and now, just to get some fecking peace and quiet.
 
Blueman said:
The "event"? A showcase to finish off the PL, guarantee PL profits for the season, make sure LFC and Leeds get what they deserve, guarantee the global product sales off the back of an LFC win..... Players earning ££££k, clubs earning their prize money. All of it stinks of money. I work on the front line though so I am bound to think these things. But it fkin stinks.
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Exactly. It’s such a painfully distasteful conversation IMO.
 
I don't see how discussions of ending the season are any more distasteful in this climate than, for instance, discussing signing Sancho or someone else for £80million at a time when one quarter of the workforce is losing their jobs.

We're kidding ourselves if we think any of these teams are purely altruistic. If that were the case the idea of a transfer window wouldn't even be under discussion for a year at least.
 
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