Could they void the PL due to the Coronavirus? | No | Resuming June 17th
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Surely the easiest thing at this stage will be to forget that last season existed and, when safe to do so in front of full stadia, prepare for (pre-season etc) for a fresh start and new season.
Easiest from what perspective? You are fine with clubs being denied something they have gone 80% to achieving?
And nobody is playing in front of full stadia for at least 18 months.
It’s not bonkers at all. A solution that is applied to every team equally is the only way to prevent tampering and interfering. It’s the only objective solution available aside from completing the season under regular conditions — with supporters.
Your other quoted argument is flawed. 80% of the season played does not mean that teams that are now in a league position that would win something have earned 80% of that target.
So why is 'null & void' the best option for Manchester United FC ? If there is European football next season surely you'd want to be playing in the Champions League, & the only way that's possible is if you finish top 4, or if City's ban is upheld.
The thing they just don’t seem to be understanding is that this season is compromised already; injured players now likely to return, losing players when contracts expire, loss of form due to the long break etc etc.
You’re missing the point, he’s not talking about MUFC, he’s expressing an opinion on what is the simplest and fairest solution for the majority of clubs rather than just concentrating on one.
You could make a decent argument that void is fair for teams in the middle of the table who aren't going down or making Europe. But for the rest (approx 2/3) its hard to say it's fair and its definitely not the fairest.
I'm not missing the point at all. He said that 'everyone will push what's best for their club'. I'm taking it that he's including himself & other United fans in the 'everyone' assertion.
The fairest thing is to treat all teams in exactly the same way. Only one action does that...
How does the outcome of a voided season affect all teams equally?
City's ban will probably get reduced to 1 year - so we'd get in that way.
But most likely there will be no European football anyway, so it's all a moot point.
You are misinterpreting that side of my argument, which I understand as they conversation got clouded but PPG does what you want too, it is applied to every team. You may claim not equally due to strength of opposition ether played or yet to play but I think that is a much smaller price to pay than writing a season off completely.
80% was a random figure just to put a context. No system in this is going to be perfect and some sides will feel hard done by. My main concern is that no side feels hard done by in a way that they have something taken away from them in terms of league status. The pill to swallow is that some sides would have to eat the loss of an opportunity to succeed which again I think is much the lesser of two evils.
If it's the fairest way of doing things why hasn't it been discussed by those who have the power to make such decisions ?
It seems pretty clear that whatever happens has to be applied equally. That will unfortunately hurt some teams more than others, but you can't promote this team, not relegate that one, ignore any idea of playoffs, let off teams who had points deductions. There's no rhyme or reason to it
If there's no European football then there'll be no rush to ensure a new season is started on time. So plenty of time to finish this one off, & start a new one at a later date than usual.
It might be in time, but at the moment they're scraping every possible other option out first - as they should really.
As just deleting everything makes the whole past year a waste of time.
However, it does treat all teams the same - but obviously some teams lose out more!
At the end of the day, every possible option from here on in has massive issues.
These are unprecedented times. WW2 is the only precedent and the leagues started afresh after that. There will be winners and losers whatever is done but most people would rather draw a line under this tainted season and start anew.
There's already been murmurings towards the idea that a new season has to start around September.
I think they realise just postponing indefinitely is a non starter.
The lower league clubs would be ruined by postponing it massively too.
Are you the kind of guy that gets annoyed when his neighbour gets a shiny new car? Why does it bother you to see some clubs consequently catch a break?
You want things applied equally? So you want Bolton down because they had a points penalty, but that means you also want Bournemouth down on goals difference?
I think we need to clearly differentiate between treating all teams equally and affecting all teams equally.
All teams should be treated equally. Unfortunately that will lead to teams being affected differently.
The alternative is worse: teams being treated differently will still be affected differently.
I would choose the first version because it eliminates biased interference as much as possible and remains neutral towards the outcome for good and bad.
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How does it not? Every team starts from square one again as if last season never happened.
No one loses anything because nothing was yet achieved no team had yet been relegated. No team had guaranteed an EL place. No team had guaranteed a CL place bar Liverpool but in a null and void it would defer to the previous season so you would still qualify. And of course there’s the very real possibility that there will be no European football next season in which case it’s a moot point.
So which team will be losing out on anything they were guaranteed?
There's been lots of 'murmurings' & tentative dates set but it's all conjecture anyway isn't it ? No European football or domestic cup competitions will mean they could start as late as November & still get the season finished in plenty of time. League matches are what pay the bills. Good cup runs are not guaranteed, they're simply a bonus if you do well. That's why the onus is on doing everything possible to finish this season. Because like a few people, I'm in the camp that believes if this season doesn't get completed then it'll mean no next season.
You can't compare to WW2, come on. Football is a multi billion pound industry with hundreds of thousands of jobs reliant on it.
I seriously think some on here struggle to see beyond a club badge or a squad of 25 players.
You have answered your own question: ”those who have the power to make such decisions” do not want to throw away that power and the possible future perks these decisions could hold.
So if they don't go up, and we have either no football or BCD?
zero chance that starting next year is only contingent on finishing this year unless you include complete to mean by potg, etc
But it did and that's the problem with voiding. you can't wish away 75% of the season. Countless teams lose the opportunity to achieve stuff. The argument to finish the season is not based on what's guaranteed otherwise if everything was already guaranteed then why not call it quits now and have the current standings final.
If there is no football or BCD for a lengthy period of time then most EFL clubs (and several PL clubs) are in dire straits regardless.
92 league clubs is unsustainable and has been for a long time. This pandemic is just going to see clubs die quicker but make no mistake there was already plenty going to die in the next 20 years or so anyway. (maybe a reset was coming, there were some hopeful signs, again if that's the case this will just hasten the need for that reset to happen sooner rather than later)
This is likely to be the core issue with any solution. Can the FA show that all teams in every league and division were treated equally?
ppg doesn’t it based on incomplete data with some teams having different run ins etc.
As is - definitely does not treat team equally
finish season - yes
null and void - yes
from a legal standpoint favoring some teams could be very messy, I think they will try to finish delaying as much as possible and if they can’t it will be a tough pill so the FA will shit out. Null and voiding everything but giving some kind of title to Liverpool
PPG with automatic promotion only and no relegation provides the best and most reasonable middle ground if the season can't be played to a finish. It will mean a 22 team PL for 20/21 and the trickle down effect down the leagues in terms of numbers but it offers the balance of reward for those who were likely to have earned them and protects sides who have lost the opportunity to protect themselves. The only "losers" here for the most part are sides who are going from a rich PL side with added Champions League money to a rich PL side without CL money or playoff sides who are left in the same spot as though they either didn't make the playoffs or lost in them, hardly catastrophic in either case. I'd feel most sorry for sides 2-3 points off an automatic promotion spot with 9-10 games left but there have to be some losers and again that is by far the lesser evil and the sweetest of bitter pills to swallow.
If the season were to be voided presumably that would mean results wiped from existence?
Surely the better description of what some are suggesting is that the season is abandoned
Surely the better description of what some are suggesting is that the season is abandoned
i read the BBC post about UEFA announcement. I’m actually laughing, it’s so pathetic.
Imagine major players in an industry meeting and agreeing to reopen when the governments are saying no... example pubs, F1.
It’s an unhelpful announcement
Imagine major players in an industry meeting and agreeing to reopen when the governments are saying no... example pubs, F1.
It’s an unhelpful announcement
But it hasn't been completed and completing it may not be possible. And thats the point of a null and void every team is treated the same, every team loses the chance to qualify for Europe or escape relegation. If you just go off the current standings then lots of teams lose out on things unfairly while others teams benefit from the current standings. Null and Void puts everyone in the same boat.
I'll ask again, if the season was null and void which team loses out on anything they were guaranteed?
None is the answer.
Unfortunately, it's not just a terminology thing.
The results either count for something, or they don't.
And if they don't, they are wiped.
Yep.
It's like they constantly need to show people they're "doing something", yet it's always the same message.
It is a little like these daily government news broadcasts on the virus. Same stuff every day. At first it was fresh, but surely now, we only need an updated twice a week or so?
Well I wouldn't want that, Ole doing the treble over Pep and Lampard have been immensely enjoyable this season
The Dutch government have just announced all events, including professional football, are cancelled untill at least September.
How many teams lose out on opportunities they have worked hard to achieve? Answer = 9 give or take
Which teams get a free pass when they were likely to be relegated? A = 3
Conclusion - voiding is fair for a smaller number of teams but unfair for a larger number.
Nah.