Could they void the PL due to the Coronavirus? | No | Resuming June 17th

I expect football season to resume at some point but no relegation would be silly. I don't think behind closed doors at home and a neutral venue BCD are that much different, much of the advantage is lost without the crowd, a minor advantage in familiar surroundings maybe.

I wonder if some neutral venues and grouping players is a good idea anyway, might be best to just stage the games BCD at all the stadiums. We see with prisons, meat packing factories, cruise ships that closed groups could lead to more getting infected and sounds a bit strange for the mental side for players, they're not robots.
 
redshaw said:
. I don't think behind closed doors at home and a neutral venue BCD are that much different, much of the advantage is lost without the crowd, a minor advantage in familiar surroundings maybe.
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I don't think that's the argument... It's that having your home crowd support you in the most critical games. Ie Brighton run in is now much harder with no home fans - compared with their relegation rivals.

From city's point of view we played LFC at Anfield with their crowd - its not now fair that LFC play city without city fans.

These things will be argued by the individual clubs, I just don't see an end to this season.
 
Blueman said:
From city's point of view we played LFC at Anfield with their crowd - its not now fair that LFC play city without city fans.
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I’ve never really thought playing at the Emptihad was much of an advantage.
 
Does the FA have authority to 'force' all teams to play if the league resumes? I feel like not all the teams will actually agree with it and if They have the right to reject, what happens if They decide not to turn up? let the opponent get three points? will turn out to the be most unfair Premier League in history.
 
Blueman said:
I don't think that's the argument... It's that having your home crowd support you in the most critical games. Ie Brighton run in is now much harder with no home fans - compared with their relegation rivals.

From city's point of view we played LFC at Anfield with their crowd - its not now fair that LFC play city without city fans.

These things will be argued by the individual clubs, I just don't see an end to this season.
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Now you do make a valid point but giving city's example just makes your whole point null and void. It's not like you guys have some loud fans who intimidate oppositions.
 
tenpoless said:
Does the FA have authority to 'force' all teams to play if the league resumes? I feel like not all the teams will actually agree with it and if They have the right to reject, what happens if They decide not to turn up? let the opponent get three points? will turn out to the be most unfair Premier League in history.
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As far as I know it will all go to a vote. If 14 out of the 20 teams vote for whatever proposal is finally put forward they will go with that.

If one of the teams voted against it and werent in favour refuses to participate then its likely the PL will have some recourse against them. Whether that is a punishment (Points deduction or something) or legal action, who knows.
 
tenpoless said:
Does the FA have authority to 'force' all teams to play if the league resumes? I feel like not all the teams will actually agree with it and if They have the right to reject, what happens if They decide not to turn up? let the opponent get three points? will turn out to the be most unfair Premier League in history.
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If the Government and FA decides it's safe to play then they obviously have to turn up.
 
Rooney24 said:
As far as I know it will all go to a vote. If 14 out of the 20 teams vote for whatever proposal is finally put forward they will go with that.

If one of the teams voted against it and werent in favour refuses to participate then its likely the PL will have some recourse against them. Whether that is a punishment (Points deduction or something) or legal action, who knows.
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Times was reporting today that as many as 7/8 clubs have concerns, so it could be a close vote.
 
tenpoless said:
Does the FA have authority to 'force' all teams to play if the league resumes? I feel like not all the teams will actually agree with it and if They have the right to reject, what happens if They decide not to turn up? let the opponent get three points? will turn out to the be most unfair Premier League in history.
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I do think relegation candidates are chancing their arms. They may not get home advantage but they dont have away disadvantage neither.
 
cyberman said:
I do think relegation candidates are chancing their arms. They may not get home advantage but they dont have away disadvantage neither.
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Maybe they did earlier in the season
 
Blueman said:
I don't think that's the argument... It's that having your home crowd support you in the most critical games. Ie Brighton run in is now much harder with no home fans - compared with their relegation rivals.

From city's point of view we played LFC at Anfield with their crowd - its not now fair that LFC play city without city fans.

These things will be argued by the individual clubs, I just don't see an end to this season.
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I thought no relegation was brought up after this idea of only 10 stadiums came about. There were plenty of BCD games around Europe before and never heard clubs talking about it then and it's been proposed for a long time in resumption, only now with this idea of a closed environment tournament style at possibly 10 stadiums has it come up and completely understand the ask for no relegation in this format. If clubs are now against playing BCD at their own stadium then fair enough.
 
If we have to start next season behind closed doors, then in the name of fairness the entire season should be played that way. Which it will probably have to be anyway even if it starts months late.

Cup football can be made to work but the integrity of league football is screwed by any current solution.

Assuming the vaccine arrives on time, league football will resume properly no earlier than August 2021. Until then, it’s just glorified friendlies.
 
One idea I saw suggested is simply changing the format of the league for next year. For example, having two separate 10 team groups with those at the top and bottom of each group then entering into play-offs for the championship, CL/EL places and relegation.

What would ye think of changes that drastic?
 
sullydnl said:
One idea I saw suggested is simply changing the format of the league for next year. For example, having two separate 10 team groups with those at the top and bottom of each group then entering into play-offs for the championship, CL/EL places and relegation.

What would ye think of changes that drastic?
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I think they will consider all options for next season including this one. If it was done on a regional basis to minimise travelling then it may have some merit.

Northern Group
Newcastle
Sheffield utd
Man Utd
Man City
Liverpool
Everton
Burnley
Wolves
Leicester
Villa

Southern group
the rest
 
Finn MacCool said:
I think they will consider all options for next season including this one. If it was done on a regional basis to minimise travelling then it may have some merit.

Northern Group

Newcastle
Sheffield utd
Man Utd
Man City
Liverpool
Everton
Burnley
Wolves
Leicester
Villa

Southern group

the rest
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Yikes, that Northern group is a bit of a group of death, isn't it?
 
Dancfc said:
Granted I probably haven't come across the best in here at times but there's also been situations where I've practically been branded every adjective under the sun for my opinion here (which I back up in as much detail as possible for the most part).

The part that confuses me about the not leaving the house thing, why now? Risk is always there to some degree or another (for example for anyone under 40 with no health issues a car journey is probably more dangerous than the virus for them statically in terms of mortality), why now is there people convinced they'll basically playing Russian roulette once they unbolt the front door? I get this is a problem virus and it should be treated with the respect it commands but despite the issues surrounding it the odds are in any one person's favour, even letting it run free (which I'm not in the slightest suggesting we should have done) the morality predictions were still low in the context of the overall population. If I came out of a four month coma today and was first told about the measures taken and the further action lots of the public are taking before having the virus itself explained to me I'd genuinely think this was the bubonic plague, as grim as this situation is, it's far from that level of crisis.

Ultimately we need to find a way to coexist with this virus soon (in other words reopen the world with all the possible precautions) because these measures until a vaccine and by the time it arrives the virus will be the least of our problems.
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The reasons will be different for every person. My Mum can't leave the house obviously because she's been advised to stay in because of her age and health. But she's even wary of sitting in the front garden, for me personally despite my precautions i am very concerned about catching the virus. But more from the point of view that i don't want to give it to my Mum and to others.
 
sullydnl said:
Yikes, that Northern group is a bit of a group of death, isn't it?
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Yep, and together with all the London teams in the same group it would possibly mean a derby of some type every match day.

Edit - imagine it with Leeds as well :)
 
Figgins said:
Lately you miss the point. PL cannot be compared to supermarkets or MDs. They’re trying to get the public to accept they should have a separate set of rules than everyone else. That doesn’t sit well. It sits even less well when they’re role models, who supposedly people look to as an example. Giving away 1000 tickets is pathetic when they’re looking to be treated differently. What’s more, they’re wanting to be treated differently to save 1.3b or 60m per club.. that is largely made up of players wages. (edited to add: United 2019 rev 602m salaries 332m; Sainsburys Rev 29000,salaries 3100 (Yes, i know about limitations of comparison)) The business model for football means they're playing to pay themselves, others work for the supply chain. Animals are being slaughtered and food going to waste because it cant get into the supply chain to feed people. There are predictions of food shortages.


This isn’t a grudge it’s greed and privilege, while 100 plus medics die with lesser ppe, lesser testing and 60k for dying..

It’s about morals..
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Erm yes it can be, based on the argument being put forward to the people I was responding to. All what you’re saying has been covered a thousand times over. But fine we’ll go over them again.

How exactly are they trying to have separate rules to everyone else? They’re literally taking every single precaution they can to get things going in the safest possible way which is the whole end game of this for everyone once the government allow businesses to open again.

I don’t get the 1000 tickets thing? Is that meant to be a criticism? Noel Gallagher is giving away tickets to a gig of his, every food giant is giving out free food to the NHS. Is it that you think that’s all they’ve done? Because they haven’t, they donated millions to the NHS after being attacked for no reason by the media. Because apparently footballers are the only rich people in the country.

Why are you taking about Sainsburys? I’m aware of the difference between an essential supermarket and PL football. I spoke about McDonalds, which is not the same at all.

Football does finance itself and it’s margins are quite small due to the amount footballers at the top level get paid. If the PL are going to finance the lower league over the course of the next year or two to keep them afloat whilst BCD becomes permanent they obviously have to financially secure themselves. Or are we expecting premier league footballers to take money out of their own pocket to keep the lower leagues afloat?

As for the last bit, for the 100th time the PL are not taking supplies from the NHS. The government is solely responsible for providing the emergency services with supply. The question should be why are the Pl more competent than the government?

And as for your moral code, emergency services have been struggling for years, with inadequate pay, resources, staff, medical care etc ( I should know I work in it) This isn’t new. The corona virus has brought things to the forefront which is a positive in amongst the shit because now maybe people will take more notice. But if you think football and the Pl are the people we should be holding to account you are gravely mistaken. Please, blame the right people.
 
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Champ said:
Would be absolutely scandalous to play without threat of relegation,
If teams can't get relegated then we can't have champions.
This is fast becoming a farce beyond comprehension.
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This!!
It is becoming even more obvious why they want to play the rest (or part) of the Season at all costs and we all know why.



Finn MacCool said:
I think they will consider all options for next season including this one. If it was done on a regional basis to minimise travelling then it may have some merit.

Northern Group
Newcastle
Sheffield utd
Man Utd
Man City
Liverpool
Everton
Burnley
Wolves
Leicester
Villa

Southern group
the rest
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Ridiculous concoctions to gift the title to Liverpool*
 
christinaa said:
This!!
It is becoming even more obvious why they want to play the rest (or part) of the Season at all costs and we all know why.





Ridiculous concoctions to gift the title to Liverpool
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Hopefully you're right, that'll be no. 20 in the bag.
 
christinaa said:
This!!
It is becoming even more obvious why they want to play the rest (or part) of the Season at all costs and we all know why.

Ridiculous concoctions to gift the title to Liverpool*
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If you are honest then you have to admit that talking about a gift in this context is pretty ridiculous. Liverpool believes (as anyone would in their situation) that they already won it so how can you gift them something they already have? Yeah I know mathematically it's still possible but let's be real here. I mean would you say that United was "gifted" a PL place next year because they avoided relegation if the season was cancelled? Again Liverpool is one of the only teams that will gain nothing and can only lose.
 
Leroy The Red said:
Erm yes it can be, based on the argument being put forward to the people I was responding to. All what you’re saying has been covered a thousand times over. But fine we’ll go over them again.

How exactly are they trying to have separate rules to everyone else? They’re literally taking every single precaution they can to get things going in the safest possible way which is the whole end game of this for everyone once the government allow businesses to open again.

I don’t get the 1000 tickets thing? Is that meant to be a criticism? Noel Gallagher is giving away tickets to a gig of his, every food giant is giving out free food to the NHS. Is it that you think that’s all they’ve done? Because they haven’t, they donated millions to the NHS after being attacked for no reason by the media. Because apparently footballers are the only rich people in the country.

Why are you taking about Sainsburys? I’m aware of the difference between an essential supermarket and PL football. I spoke about McDonalds, which is not the same at all.

Football does finance itself and it’s margins are quite small due to the amount footballers at the top level get paid. If the PL are going to finance the lower league over the course of the next year or two to keep them afloat whilst BCD becomes permanent they obviously have to financially secure themselves. Or are we expecting premier league footballers to take money out of their own pocket to keep the lower leagues afloat?

As for the last bit, for the 100th time the PL are not taking supplies from the NHS. The government is solely responsible for providing the emergency services with supply. The question should be why are the Pl more competent than the government?

And as for your moral code, emergency services have been struggling for years, with inadequate pay, resources, staff, medical care etc ( I should know I work in it) This isn’t new. The corona virus has brought things to the forefront which is a positive in amongst the shit because now maybe people will take more notice. But if you think football and the Pl are the people we should be holding to account you are gravely mistaken. Please, blame the right people.
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Again; you seem confused; i'll break it down for you

1) Businesses will return with SD in place; football is looking to break that during matches. So, allowing football to return with separate rules is a fact, to suggest otherwise is folly.
2) You say they're taking every precaution; they're looking to take reactive steps. In other words; a) your comments/assumption on the basis that all facts about the virus are know, when they're not. b) that testing is preventative, when it is reactive.
3) Finances; you talk of revenue. I'm talking cost and revenue. Supermarkets and MDs use the majority of their revenue to pay for goods and services further up the supply chain. In other words, their revenue isn't captured and distribute to their workers like football. BCD means match day revenue is lost, all the additional revenue capturing activity, for support businesses, doesn't exist. Footballs revenue is centralised to the few.
4) Resources; you can't have a match without NHS staff and resources; which includes PPE etc etc. As for tests, there is a shortage of testing centres, please don't' say there isn't displacement. Any profit maximising testing centre will move to those that will benefit them most, PL is increasing competition.
5) 1000 tickets; you believe that the responsibility for the NHS is the governments. When the responsibility is everyone's, in part, paid through our tax's. In an environment when PL is seeking separate rules, which means you need NHS at games, I find the level a nd type of help from the PL at best questionable. I didn't question some footballers, just the PL. Come on; were those tickets free for the PL?

We have different views; i find what the PL is proposing is immoral. They seem to want different rules, use resources, give nothing back and keep the money.
 
These clubs talking about a lack of a home advantage....do they think playing in your own empty ground would be much different?
 
I hope they just void it already. It’s obvious the league will not be resuming. If the bottom 6 clubs vote to block ’Project Restart’ as it’s being reported then it’s curtains. Personally for us it‘s very very frustrating as we still had so much to play for.
 
Figgins said:
Again; you seem confused; i'll break it down for you

1) Businesses will return with SD in place; football is looking to break that during matches. So, allowing football to return with separate rules is a fact, to suggest otherwise is folly.
2) You say they're taking every precaution; they're looking to take reactive steps. In other words; a) your comments/assumption on the basis that all facts about the virus are know, when they're not. b) that testing is preventative, when it is reactive.
3) Finances; you talk of revenue. I'm talking cost and revenue. Supermarkets and MDs use the majority of their revenue to pay for goods and services further up the supply chain. In other words, their revenue isn't captured and distribute to their workers like football. BCD means match day revenue is lost, all the additional revenue capturing activity, for support businesses, doesn't exist. Footballs revenue is centralised to the few.
4) Resources; you can't have a match without NHS staff and resources; which includes PPE etc etc. As for tests, there is a shortage of testing centres, please don't' say there isn't displacement. Any profit maximising testing centre will move to those that will benefit them most, PL is increasing competition.
5) 1000 tickets; you believe that the responsibility for the NHS is the governments. When the responsibility is everyone's, in part, paid through our tax's. In an environment when PL is seeking separate rules, which means you need NHS at games, I find the level a nd type of help from the PL at best questionable. I didn't question some footballers, just the PL. Come on; were those tickets free for the PL?

We have different views; i find what the PL is proposing is immoral. They seem to want different rules, use resources, give nothing back and keep the money.
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1/2. No, incorrect, in a lot of jobs you cannot social distance, it is impossible. You can do as much as you can but it is physically impossible, for example working in a Mcd’s, being a barber, playing football. There is no full proof way of being completely safe and there never ever ever ever will be. The minute this is accepted and we stop going down ‘what if’s’ only then can we actually continue. And again you cannot spread a virus that you don’t have.The Pl is investing in highly advanced, expensive and fast result producing accurate testing kit. There is literally nothing more they can do to be safer short of putting player in giant plastic balls.

3. Supermarkets are essential, McDonalds is not. McDonald’s is a billion dollar profit organisation who routinely brag about the money they make yet their staff are on mediocre wages and work in poor, impossible to socially distant conditions. They unlike the PL will not take anywhere near the same measures at protecting their staff. That is why I originally mentioned them, let’s not get so deep into the specifics of revenue and expenditure.

4. resources .The Uk has continually ranked amongst the lowest in testing, appearing like a third world country whilst football has been suspended. You’ve got countries openly telling the world “we have half a million unused kit” . And we have people in this country on this forum somehow attributing lack of kit/testing to the football(that isn’t even being played and hasn’t for 7 weeks), do you not see how completely ridiculous and absurd this is? Do you think this goes on in any other country?
It’s great being outraged at the state of affairs and taking a moral stand but if it’s directed at the wrong people, it’s meaningless.
The Pl literally have a club that designated their stadium for NHS staff to be tested.

5. The PL contribute billions in tax to the economy. How are you not aware of this? And yes it everyone’s responsibility to pay for the Nhs but it is the governments responsibility to use that money to provide the adequate materials for the emergency services to use which they have failed to do. I know I’ve mentioned this before but our government a few weeks ago spent millions on kit that didn’t work. It’s embarrassing.
 
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tenpoless said:
Does the FA have authority to 'force' all teams to play if the league resumes? I feel like not all the teams will actually agree with it and if They have the right to reject, what happens if They decide not to turn up? let the opponent get three points? will turn out to the be most unfair Premier League in history.
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I don't think so - it needs to be agreed on by a vast majority of clubs if I'm not mistaken. I don't see this happening, can see a couple clubs being against neutral venues already (West Ham, Brighton). Big name players are also coming out generally against the idea of finishing the league ahead of time (Augero, Laporte).

FA can huff and puff with ideas all they want, but they need pretty much everyone backing it for it to work and I honestly don't see such a vast majority being on board with any idea before the deadline.
 
Sandikan said:
These clubs talking about a lack of a home advantage....do they think playing in your own empty ground would be much different?
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Yes, because players are more familiar with their home pitch more than any other. Some are slightly narrower, some slightly wider etc. The familiarity helps with an edge.
 
Sandikan said:
These clubs talking about a lack of a home advantage....do they think playing in your own empty ground would be much different?
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Playing at home isn’t just about the fans. Players have a mental map, based on features in the stadiums that let them know exactly where they are on the pitch; particularly important for strikers with their back to goal or deadball experts. Then there’s all the other stuff, basic creature comforts and routine that make it easier to concentrate and get “in the zone”; things like your own position in the changing room, where everything is located etc.
 
Phurry said:
Playing at home isn’t just about the fans. Players have a mental map, based on features in the stadiums that let them know exactly where they are on the pitch; particularly important for strikers with their back to goal or deadball experts. Then there’s all the other stuff, basic creature comforts and routine that make it easier to concentrate and get “in the zone”; things like your own position in the changing room, where everything is located etc.
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I wonder if Herrera aimed for the car park
 
Really, REALLY hope its cancelled.

Need to get plans for next season in place...potentially starting it a couple of weeks earlier, and losing the league cup to avoid a build up of games in case of cancellations.

I hope that we as a club aren't supportive of the plans to finish the season, same goes for City.
 
Leroy The Red said:
4. resources .The Uk has continually ranked amongst the lowest in testing, appearing like a third world country whilst football has been suspended.
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So if that is the case then surely none of the testing capacity that exists within the country should be diverted away from key workers and towards non essential workers like footballers and their support staff then?
 
Tibs said:
Really, REALLY hope its cancelled.

Need to get plans for next season in place...potentially starting it a couple of weeks earlier, and losing the league cup to avoid a build up of games in case of cancellations.

I hope that we as a club aren't supportive of the plans to finish the season, same goes for City.
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City will most likely be in support. They have breached FFP and will need the revenue. they have one of the biggest wage bills as well.
 
Finn MacCool said:
By that theory any disadvantage (purely in terms of ground) will be made up by "away" fixtures.
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No it won't. Some teams had more home games left, some had more away fixtures v. top 6 etc. It won't totally even out over 10 games and that's the problem. Some will be getting an advantage.
 
Cassidy said:
Only if you start the competition again
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Yes and that's why i said in terms of ground. The major problem about the neutral venue idea is that a side like Brighton now have to play Utd, Liverpool, City at a neutral venue instead of the Amex - having already played at Anfield, Old Trafford and the Etihad.
 
11101 said:
No it won't. Some teams had more home games left, some had more away fixtures v. top 6 etc. It won't totally even out over 10 games and that's the problem. Some will be getting an advantage.
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agreed -see my last reply.
 
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