Wrestling (the kinds like in College and the Olympics - not the wwe stuff)
Social Media Justice: A "Karen" faces consequences for threatening a Black man with cops
- Thread starter crappycraperson
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
None. Punishment always outstrips deed for these pile ons.
We have all the technology for this to go better.
I’m a bit too idealistic at times. But this could have gone better for all.
- Girl apologises to guy
- Guy accepts
- Girl keeps job
- Company fines girl
- Guy gets that money from company as apology
- Girl sits on relevant course to correct behaviour
- Girl repays fine to company and debt to society
No it’s not implementable in the current machine we have built, but it’s still an outcome we could achieve. We have the tech. We could create better outcomes.
I as much as the next person, am guilty of casually using the word lynching, so I'm not trying to be an obstinate cnut here at all. However we should keep in mind that until very recent in this country's history, black men were frequently broken out of jails, and extrajudicially lynched (as in tortured, maimed and then hung till they stopped kicking) by mobs of white men. And such lynchings we're usually instigated by false claims of harassment/rape said by white women. I hope no one is encouraging that karen2835 be literally hung in Central Park.
The public expression of glee at her having lost her job is macabre, I admit. And no one stops to think as to what happens if, for example, she doesn't have a LinkedIn and her employers can't be found. Again, it's not an optimal solution. However, in the absence of any significant legal consequences for such behavior, what should be done?
And I'm trying to be fair. Because honestly I don't give a feck that she now has to file unemployment. She'll live.
The state of some of the posts in this thread 
My issue is with anyone who publicly posts videos like this. We just can't mind our own business. Who fecking cares, crazy people have a right to be crazy. If it's too much then the police can sort it.
It's all so boring.
It's all so boring.
I don't have a strong stance on this case. Most of social media stuff is just about cursing her, there is nothing to gain by having that discussion here too. As a thought exercise, it is an interesting question to ponder over if the society is at that stage that this kind of mob justice using social media tools is justified or warranted.
Thought I will admit that I don't believe this woman deserves to have her complete life ruined as some would have it on social media. What she did could have had very very dangerous consequences but may be I am giving her the benefit of the doubt in that she did not actually want to get the cops to kill the man but was just trying to win that argument and ended up going way overboard, in turn showing an ugly racist side. Hence why I asked if she could have been charged legally for this act, what punishment people would have wanted her to get other than social humiliation.
ikr why can't the sister of a victim of racism mind her own god damn business
The cop should be accused of murder.
Who fecking cares, racists have a right to be racist
Terminated from job
I'm not a fan of the prison system as a means of punishment but deliberately and maliciously exposing someone to a higher risk of harm/death, even if done on impulse, should at the very least be a fireable offense, and a jail sentence. If she changes her name and rejigs her resume she'll be back in the workforce in no time. It can be said that she got off easy, with no charges being filed against her.
I can't think of any other situation where this would be a debate. Someone mentioned swatting earlier.. just the act alone will bring state and federal charges on your head (and god forbid if it ends up with someone dead... That's a murder charge on top). There needs to be a more substantial penalty than saying sorry and taking bullshit racial sensitivity classes sponsored by HR, to reflect how you decided to roll the dice on someone else's life.
Crazy people don't have the right to falsely accuse someone of threatening their life to the police because when the police come to "sort it" the context is set and it's a pretty bad one for the falsely accused and it's considerably worse when that person happens to be black in the United States.
"If it's too much then the police can sort it." Is that before or after they arrived at the scene all guns blazing and shoot the guy because of that woman's performance?
I think it's around the same time they sprinkle some crack on him and ask their desk duty pals to find a photo of them in a hoodie
4 have been fired and are now under FBI investigation
This reply is crazy. What is wrong with people. Now passing blame to her employer
I’m puritanical man. I’m a believer in redemption not punishment.
I saw a good friend make a very poor choice. Drove too fast. Hit someone. Killed them. Ruined his life. (It need not be said that you feel ending someone’s life Means his should be ruined).
Prison. Job gone. Relationship gone. Kids not seen.
I operate from a position that knows he does not need years in Prison to be punished. I also know that Prison made him a worse person.
It’s really complex. We feel differently about it.
I’ve got a lot more background narrative that influences me. None of which I’ll share here widely. But happy to do so privately anytime you send me a PM if I can trust you to not reshare.
They say criticise the post not the poster.
This is a cnut post, make of that what you will.
Jon Ronson had a good idea on exploring that kind of mob justice. I think you are right to raise it. And there are cases that justify examining the overarching mob justice side of things.
Just find it difficult to apply in the case of this lady. I also think what is often underplayed is the way right wing hounding of people is done online with little commentary on that side. Doxxing, mob mentality exists often in more violent forms on the right with cases not mentioned. I'm thinking Owen Jones being attacked brutally in public, rape threats to Jess Philips from MRA types and what feminists like Rebbeca Watson, Anita Sarkeesian which occur in my experience to a vastly more vile and significantly worse intensity and yet don't get as much discussion with regards to social media excessively targeting of people and people in the centre often focus on the left wing element of it often with false equivalency.
Incidentally I don't think this lady should have her life ruined either, but am I concerned about her losing her job? I dont know, I just feel the injustice of the guy filming being falsely accused of threatening somebody and somebody wishing he became the target of systemic racism. As do most people.
Also a large point of this discussion in terms of where society is headed isn't evidence based. Young lefty people are more likely to support free speech than those on the right when in comes to political correctness
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/3/12/17100496/political-correctness-data
I'm Puritan too!
I think prisons are horrible and make youngsters hardened criminals (after their labor is exploited in what is literally legalized slavery). I think there is plenty of room for focus on rehabilitation instead of punitive punishment.
The problem is that in this society, people who look like this woman, subscribe to the opposite view and ruin the lives of millions of people of color for life. Permanent criminal records. Disenfranchised in many states, unable to vote. Employers won't hire felons. All of this could have been changed years ago but again, politicians voted into office by men and women like this Karen, who have an irrational fear of black men who are just breathing, keep in place these punitive systems. It is unfair.
Now imagine how grating it must be, as a black person, to hear from these very people about forgiveness and gentle rehabilitation. Conveniently, mind, when it's the life of a white woman that will be "ruined" (no criminal record, a location change and name change away from a new 6 figure job). In the meantime, it's schadenfreud as feck to watch them squirm uncomfortable and wax eloquent about mob justice. It won't solve the wider issue of inequality but small victories eh?
I am overdue to PM you about some running questions anyway
It's because the left has almost no media presence. If there was a leftist media machine that even half-way matched the reactionary propaganda we're fed daily these conversations wouldn't be happening. leftist media is essentially a handful of bloggers at the guardian and a bunch of poorly designed cheap wesbites no one visits and therefor has little effect
OK, just trying to make sense of your stance, because in this instance, what she [attempted] to do was cut and shut, particularly at the point where she escalated by acting like she was in immediate peril at the hands of an AFRICAN AMERICAN, as she made clear to bellow down the phone - that is heinous and sinister given the potential outcome. It's at that point you're looking at a person in clear mind doing something extremely nefarious, and where benefit of the doubt should surely go up in flames? Lucky for the guy it was filmed as even if he told officers she had hammed it up, his word against hers would be mud, if we again consider the historical (current) backdrop her motives for executing such a move are set to.
There shouldn't and would be no need for mob justice if people like this didn't do things like this, repeatedly (Weaponising the police against ethnic minorities, particularly black people, is an infamous tactic in the States) or if the police could be considered an objective and impartial authority, which is overwhelmingly not the case - upon their arrival, that guy would have been in serious trouble from the outset hoping upon hope that the attending officers were rational enough to not immediately side with the woman who has called in sounding like she needs immediate assistance against a dangerous black assailant.
Each case is different sure, but rarely will such an underhanded individual be caught on camera like this, which amplifies the ire and very probably brings home to some people something they'd consider incredulous without this very proof. It all leads to the justifiable actions to shut her down, imo. Like I said earlier in the thread, questions have to be asked of whether she has form for this - she executed that performance quite magnificently... is it a one-off? If it isn't, wouldn't you say there's almost a public duty to have her behaviour highlighted lest she does it to someone else, again with potentially dire consequences?
The racial tensions and injustice in America, where actions like hers can cost lives, obviously heighten the need for immediate action, which is where the underlying issue of what can be done to such people in the future can run concurrent with them knowing there are severe consequences for their actions in the here and now. The threat of their own lives being ruined will make a few who would have used the police in the manner we saw think twice, which is preferential to them putting other people at risk without a second thought or care in the world. Her being a social danger is more prevalent in this particular doxxing than her being socially humiliated, imo - she can't pull this stunt again, which is more important than the woe she now faces because of her own ill intent towards another.
It's a nobody with 228 followers, I wouldn't lose too much sleep about her stupid views.
.
I am overdue to PM you about some running questions anyway
Running advice? Flip off a cop in America = Run a guaranteed PB..... shout anytime.
I’m a measured guy, if a little blunt. Two of my favourite people in the world are card carrying members of the Conservative party.
Life has got so squirrelly that many here and in wider society would have me believe I can’t keep company that runs on different political tracks.
I have sympathy for the woman’s outcome. I don’t like how all this works. But ultimately she lives in this world. She saw the camera before she said nasty shit. My sympathy only runs so far.
I’ll always believe in deescalating punishment though. I’m soft.
FFS. She's Canadian.
Shame and eternal shame.
Shame and eternal shame.
Oh buddy. Wait till you find out the sheer number of Karens out there abusing their position to deny access to education, loans, housing, healthcare based on someone’s looks.
We’ll forgive y’all. She was corrupted by her time here, obviously.FFS. She's Canadian.
Shame and eternal shame.
Meh. Public shaming is a total bore
Yeah, such a bigger issue than calling the police on an African-American man! for asking you to follow the law.
You probably should have minded your own business and not posted in this thread.
If this video hadn't been recorded and shared, she would have got away with it thinking she can do it whenever she likes. Even if nothing happened to this man, the next time she did it the victim might not have been so lucky. She's not going to suddenly become a non-racist good person, but hopefully it will mean she wont do it again, and anyone else who might have done it might think twice now they've seen what happens.
It shouldn’t be incumbent on the oppressed to ‘change the behaviour’ of the privileged.
Calling the police & falsely accusing anyone is low; to do what she did to a black male in that country is abhorrent.
The guy who did the filming has spoken up and sounds very sensible, I've put some of what I think are the more salient points in the quotes
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/05/26/amy-cooper-central-park/
That's him
Seems like a nice guy, and from his wiki he was a writer for Marvel comics as well
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/05/26/amy-cooper-central-park/
That's him
Seems like a nice guy, and from his wiki he was a writer for Marvel comics as well
Agreed.
Celine Dion, Justin Bieber and now Amy Cooper. Is there no end to this madness ?FFS. She's Canadian.
Shame and eternal shame.
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There's a picture of him wearing a Star Trek "Dammit, Jim" shirt and that's all I need to know to tell he and I would be friends for life.
Nerd.
Philistine.
Quite a lot of responses I got, so I'l try to reply to them all:
From the video, he pulled out his phone before she starting making the phone call. From his own account, she wasn't saying anything threatening to him at that point, so no he didn't have any of those reasons to pull out his phone.
If I'm having an argument with someone for whatever reason, and the other person pulls out his/her phone and starts filming me, I'd be right pissed because that's my image that the person can do whatever with. From the video it clearly seems they are having an argument over the dog being on a lease before she starts to call the cops, and again the guy's narration says the same thing, so the only reason he would have to take his phone out would be regarding a stupid argument over dogs on leases.
The fact that you want to judge someone based on one post says a lot about you and what's wrong with this SJW obsessed generation.
I'm sorry, I'm not aware we are required to give our full take on the situation in every post. That is only what I posted, not that which I got from the incident. The women is a crazed racist, there happy? I just now said a point that was repeated 20 times before my post, I apologize if I didn't want to say it again to make everyone understand that I'm a decent human being (since that is how we judge people).
The purpose of CCTV is complete different from this.
So now it's worthy to film someone for not putting their dog on a leash? I should get my phone out all the time then while in parks in Munich then. Honestly, when did it become okay to film people for breaking a minor law?
So, again, it's okay to film people who don't want to put their dog on a leash?
From the video, he pulled out his phone before she starting making the phone call. From his own account, she wasn't saying anything threatening to him at that point, so no he didn't have any of those reasons to pull out his phone.
If I'm having an argument with someone for whatever reason, and the other person pulls out his/her phone and starts filming me, I'd be right pissed because that's my image that the person can do whatever with. From the video it clearly seems they are having an argument over the dog being on a lease before she starts to call the cops, and again the guy's narration says the same thing, so the only reason he would have to take his phone out would be regarding a stupid argument over dogs on leases.
The fact that you want to judge someone based on one post says a lot about you and what's wrong with this SJW obsessed generation.
I'm sorry, I'm not aware we are required to give our full take on the situation in every post. That is only what I posted, not that which I got from the incident. The women is a crazed racist, there happy? I just now said a point that was repeated 20 times before my post, I apologize if I didn't want to say it again to make everyone understand that I'm a decent human being (since that is how we judge people).
The purpose of CCTV is complete different from this.
So now it's worthy to film someone for not putting their dog on a leash? I should get my phone out all the time then while in parks in Munich then. Honestly, when did it become okay to film people for breaking a minor law?
So, again, it's okay to film people who don't want to put their dog on a leash?
Are we friends now? I’d say let’s high five but social distancing init.
Yeah mate we're friends now. This is like being back at school but without the flexible rulers and the smoking shelters.