Ah. Ok. Thanks.
Transgender rights discussion
- Thread starter crappycraperson
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Ah. Ok. Thanks.
She's a bit of a cnut who is continuously hounded by bigger cnuts. Of course, in this world of inclusivity and individualism, you're only allowed to share a point of view if it aligns to whatever is most progressive at the time. If you try to do otherwise, you'll be shouted down by the same people who believe the world should be more tolerant of others.
And no, I wouldn't consider it phobic if a guy had a preference and didn't want to sleep with me because I'm trans.
I've been approached by all sorts, even celebs but I can't talk any further.
I'm highly offended that theit attraction to me is probably because I'm trans.
I'm always up front and honest with everybody, there's no way I'd find myself in that position unless extremely drunk.
Genital preference is not transphobic to most trans people. Everyone has a type, tall, short, blonde, brunette, muscles or slim etc, this is no different.
I've been approached by all sorts, even celebs but I can't talk any further.
I'm highly offended that theit attraction to me is probably because I'm trans. I'm always up front and honest with everybody, there's no way I'd find myself in that position unless extremely drunk.
Genital preference is not transphobic to most trans people. Everyone has a type, tall, short, blonde, brunette, muscles or slim etc, this is no different.
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I don’t pretend to understand any of this, but it’s not any of my business. What’s wrong with just keeping your mouth shut and treating people as they’d want to be treated?
I read all of those tweets and I'm still confused as to what her point is, or even if there even is a point.
I will never understand people's need to judge people unless it's because their words and/or actions are detrimental to others. What harm do trans people do to society?
It's not just you. She's fecking horrible. And what a load of guff as usual.
JK Rowling's Tombstone said:
I don’t see what’s hateful or transphobic. Stupid, sure, but not transphobic. @Rudie, educate me please.
I can't believe she actually said that. She actually said that.
What's she said that's wrong?
People can do what they want. Your body, your choice and all that.
Basically, im not a fan of gender as a concept. Im not sure exactly when it was made a distinct thing from sex, but I dont really see the point. Every case is different of course, but if someone born as a female identifies as a male, I would like to better understand what that actually means. My proposition is that there are a set of societal expectations, stereotypes and behaviors associated with being male, and those are what the person identifies with. In my mind, in this case the real issue is the existence of those stereotypes etc - I am a believe that anyone should be able to do anything. I like bubble baths, and drink fruity cocktails instead of beer, it doesnt make me any less of a man and I am entirely comfortable with my sexuality.
There is of course a lot more to it than that, but as I said - what does it mean to identify with a specific gender? If not behaviours/stereotypes/societal expectations then what?
To reiterate, I have no issue with trans people or anyone else. People can broadly do as they wish as long as it doesnt impact others. I just feel like the topic deserves a little bit of deeper diving to try to understand the root cause of what makes someone want to change their gender/sex (which I am aware are different things).
Basically, im not a fan of gender as a concept. Im not sure exactly when it was made a distinct thing from sex, but I dont really see the point. Every case is different of course, but if someone born as a female identifies as a male, I would like to better understand what that actually means. My proposition is that there are a set of societal expectations, stereotypes and behaviors associated with being male, and those are what the person identifies with. In my mind, in this case the real issue is the existence of those stereotypes etc - I am a believe that anyone should be able to do anything. I like bubble baths, and drink fruity cocktails instead of beer, it doesnt make me any less of a man and I am entirely comfortable with my sexuality.
There is of course a lot more to it than that, but as I said - what does it mean to identify with a specific gender? If not behaviours/stereotypes/societal expectations then what?
To reiterate, I have no issue with trans people or anyone else. People can broadly do as they wish as long as it doesnt impact others. I just feel like the topic deserves a little bit of deeper diving to try to understand the root cause of what makes someone want to change their gender/sex (which I am aware are different things).
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#freedom of speech and opinion to everyone. Even to celebritys.
This world needs to stop to attack, or even destroy, people for their opinions to such an extend, that people are afraid (of their jobs etc) to be honest in public. This develepment is even worse than homophobia, racism etc.
This world needs to stop to attack, or even destroy, people for their opinions to such an extend, that people are afraid (of their jobs etc) to be honest in public. This develepment is even worse than homophobia, racism etc.
I guess it depends, I've been a staunch supporter but even I think she's now veering into the right-wing 'trans Women are Men'! Way of thinking.
For me, with this tweet it's
1. The timing, being Pride month is like shouting down the BLM movement during black history month.
2. The need to mock the definition of Woman, now that the definition has expanded she's having a definitive dig at the trans community, I'd think if I was a trans Man I'd find it more offensive, she's basically invalidating them, saying they're still just Women who menstrate, whereas, they're trans Men who are undergoing an extremely difficult journey. The last thing they need is for Rowling to be pointing these things out.
As for me and many other trans Women, we know we can't menstrate, we don't need to be told. It's like telling a blind man he can't see and that real men have 20/20 vision.
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Fecking nothing. She said it was daft to say "people who menstruate" instead of "women", which it is. The rest of the stuff is just a bunch of frantic and ill-advised attempts to defend herself against the horde of cnuts who came along to score points by demonstrating to each other how offended they are.
God this is depressing.
I think they mean TERF - trans-exclusionary radical feminist.
I swear that was a mistakeAppreciate it, thanks.
You must be fecking exhausted, by the way, of people always referring to what ‘the’ LGBTQI community thinks about a certain topic, as though there is only one prevailing opinion/voice held by those individuals. Group identity culture is stupid; it encourages tribalism and dissuades unique, critical thinking.
Going by the opinions of trans people I've read, the problem is that she's using the "sex is real" argument to say trans women aren't women. As if they of all people don't understand that sex is real, having struggled with the problems their sex characteristics have posed all their lives.
In other words she's misrepresenting the arguments and experiences of transgender people by suggesting they are at odds with basic biology. Which is a false dichotomy. Their argument isn't that sex isn't real.
She's then uses that misrepresentation as a jumping off point to argue that calling tran-women women stops us from being able to discuss sexism and sexual violence against women. Which is obviously going to be offensive to trans-women. Partly because it implies that they are responsible for that sexism and sexual violence being minimized, partly because not being what Rowling considers a "real" woman doesn't stop them from having that exact same sexism and sexual violence directed at them as trans-women.
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You've hit the nail there!I'm not very liked by either side, some are driven by fantasy, others hate. I have little in common with other trans Women, it's a bit like saying "hey we both have asthma let's be best friends!", how about no thanks.
So eloquently put and spot on in every sense, I think that's thread closed.
How is it worse than homophobia and racism? Don’t be so fecking dense. “Cancelling” someone is not the same as oppressing, brutalising and murdering people based on sexuality or skin colour. Try and have an honest intellectual discussion without resorting to such crass stupidity.
You incredible twat.outlawGER said:
Yeah, we'll have to agree to strongly disagree on that one.
This shouldn't come as a shock, more so in the week that the Scottish government published its Statutory Guidance to the Gender Representation on Public Boards (Scotland) Act 2018 which made it clear that they considered Trans Women as women. I'm sure this struck a chord with she who shall not be named.
What infuriates me more is that her books have been read by so many LBGTQ+ young people who saw themselves in them even if she never once suggested any of her characters were LGBTQ+. The trans young people that read them and possibly be reading them right now will be so deflated by this, and will see it as yet another attack on them.
What infuriates me more is that her books have been read by so many LBGTQ+ young people who saw themselves in them even if she never once suggested any of her characters were LGBTQ+. The trans young people that read them and possibly be reading them right now will be so deflated by this, and will see it as yet another attack on them.
Nobody told me that I was in the wrong body, I instinctively knew. The process to transitioning is fairly intimate with two independent psychological assessments carried out before medical intervention is given. If we were going by stereotypes then I'd never have signed up to the caf and been an avid football fan when I was younger.
I also love a beer, love the Pennines ale trail and reckon I could drink both you and Walrus under the table
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Somewhat refreshing seeing a celebrity have their own opinion and actually stand by it for a change to be honest.
Although she does seem far too over enthusiastic about it.
Although she does seem far too over enthusiastic about it.
Nobody told me that I was in the wrong body, I instinctively knew. The process to transitioning is fairly intimate with two independent psychological assessments carried out before medical intervention is given. If we were going by stereotypes then I'd never have signed up to the caf and been an avid football fan when I was younger.
I also love a beer, love the Pennines ale trail and reckon I could drink both you and Walrus under the table
Thanks for all the posts in this thread. I’ve learned a few things.
On a side note, we live in a very sensitive world these days.
Well, it is not that straight forward unless you live in a specific echo chamber. The very feminists "TERF" targets do consider that term derogatory and believe that it is a way to quickly shut down any discussion, given in all most all LGBTQ circle TERFs are perhaps hated even more than your run of the mill conservative. Rowling herself used along other curse words precisely for that reason. Again the issue that the term seems to cover a whole spectrum of opinions.
If you go to a different echo chamber like this one - https://www.reddit.com/r/GenderCritical/. You will see women celebrating her statements.
Nobody told me that I was in the wrong body, I instinctively knew. The process to transitioning is fairly intimate with two independent psychological assessments carried out before medical intervention is given. If we were going by stereotypes then I'd never have signed up to the caf and been an avid football fan when I was younger.
I also love a beer, love the Pennines ale trail and reckon I could drink both you and Walrus under the table
Its been very enlightening reading your posts on this thread, so thanks. Is it possible for you to try to articulate how you felt when you say that you knew you were in the wrong body? I certainly wouldnt try to dispute it or say that those feelings werent valid, its just a concept I cant quite wrap my head around anymore than trying to imagine a new colour.
Gotta agree, im struggling with all this stuff if im honest and i think the level of abuse she is getting for not saying anything particularly outrageous is a bit much.
Thanks for all the posts in this thread. I’ve learned a few things.
On a side note, we live in a very sensitive world these days.
We do, but with regards the trans debate (note I've not looked or have had anything highlighted) for the past 2 or 3 years it's been a constant barrage against the trans community of all ages. It's thought that last Sunday was the first time in around 2 years that none of the Sunday papers had a story attacking trans people. The trans community is exhausted from having to fight for the rights they fought so hard to get only as recently as 2004. It's no wonder when some billionaire cis gendered privileged author has yet another attack at the community that it's come out all guns firing, especially as they've seen another community fight back recently.
Taking such a big issue that the statement about persons having menstrual issues as opposed to just women is daft. There are plenty of Trans-men who still have them and plenty of trans-women who don't. Even if she intent on differentiating between sex and gender, there is no reason why a more inclusive statement about menstruation can be made or should be seen as some kind of slight against women. It is differently borne out of tendency of some more classical feminists who see males transitioning into female as minimisation of their hard fought rights.
No problem, I've answered some questions previously here https://www.redcafe.net/threads/transgender.452657/
My first memories as mentioned in that thread are of loneliness at Primary School (5-11), if you observe then it's very natural for both boys and girls to work out for themselves who is who and hangout in same sex groups, I can remember resenting this, being rejected by the girls and not having an affiliation with the boys, I felt very much alone at School.
Puberty was a nightmare, like trans Men who would have binded their beasts I hoped and hoped that I'd wake up each morning and everything would be righted, except it wasn't. Facial hair, my voice, everything became a source of anxiety.
For me this feeling grew throughout adolescence to the point where I was willing to end my life. I was diagnosed with dysphoria and haven't looked back since.
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Yeah, agreed with that. For what it’s worth, that bolded sentence of mine wasn’t specifically referring to this thread topic in fairness - it was just a general throwaway comment.
Likely pissed up
Hmmm. Good post. It’s achieved something quite unusual. Changed my knee-jerk initial response to OP. Fair play.
She claims she supports trans rights, but then goes on to undermine that same claim. @sullydnl laid it out pretty well in their post.
In addition, she'll signal boost some very anti-trans opinion-havers, who generally don't try to hide their true opinions on trans people the way she does.
Meh, regressive left trying to jump on intelligent thought.