Sobering image. A century later and this is where we are. You can appreciate why asking for patience might be met with frustration.
Black protest in1920
Protests following the killing of George Floyd
- Thread starter Abizzz
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I think that it's easier for people to accept it when we use local examples, a few years ago I mentioned the fact that in France at the end of the 19th and in the early 20th centuries schools in Occitanie had the writings "Speak french and be clean" on the walls. Jules Ferry, minister of education, would describe speaking occitan as a bad habit. This is symbolic of how France has considered all minorities regardless of their skin color, it's full of bigotry and xenophobia.
And while it's true that most people try to be better, it's still part of the foundations of our society.
Im still curious to explore your view, Is there any non racist countries in the world in your view?
Racist wouldn't be the correct term. But as far as I know there isn't a single country that doesn't have an history based on cultural and social domination which always leads to discrimination of minorities.
I'm not in a position to give an opinion on that. Britain is easy though since a lot of our laws and our society is still based on an Empire that just went around killing and stealing stuff from other people. That's the parts I personally think are our main issue since it's still the foundations of our democracy.
How about: A large part of the UK population is comfortable having a racist party being the largest party in parliament?
I’m Russian and he’s not my hero. He wasn’t a hero of my grandad who was a sergeant major in the red army and he isn’t a hero for plenty of other Russian people.
Stalin was an evil prick that allowed Beria and NKVD terrorise the Soviet people amongst countless other atrocities. Did he help the to beat the Nazis — yes — but he also agreed to partition Poland with Ribbentrop first.
John Oliver's latest episode on the BLM movement was brilliant and the ending was very moving.
You’ve mentioned laws twice now, just curious what laws Britain has that discriminate against a hell of a lot of people?
This was good... But it has me confused. What does "defund the police" really mean. Because here hes basically saying I'm stupid to think it means abolish police And law enforcement... But then this chap is telling me nah nah... Police aren't needed.
This doesn't seem to be a fringe position
I'm not sure what to make of it And maybe I'm naive to think that some level of law enforcement is needed in society.
Considering that the precursors to democracy are almost always one form or other of injustice and discrimination, is there one which is not founded upon conditions conducive to systemic intolerance and inequity?
Its definitely a politically losing position that Trump and his goons are salivating the Dems embrace. Thankfully Biden didn't take the bait.
I think it's worth saying that while we mostly stayed around to grab more to a certain extent Britain tried to bring administration to help develop countries too and even if we still hold issues a sizeable part of our culture was to try to import parts of those other cultures too and we have benefitted hugely from the people who risked coming here. It's our shame that those people and their British families aren't treated well.
It's such an awful slogan.... "defund the police!!"...
Wait what do you mean...
"defund the police... Doesn't actually mean defund the police... It means this entirely different more nuanced solution... Obviously"
Off the top of my head because it's late; our police forces are still sparse of diversity even after 20 years when the forces pledge to rectify it and ensure that there were more minority officers, especially working in areas where minorities reside. Labour were backing some sort of positive discrimination to tackle it a few months back. The point is though that none of the forces hit their targets and there doesn't seem to be much push to enact any sort of law to pursue it. Our Race Relations Act seems to need updating too.
https://www.thebritishacademy.ac.uk...es-still-discriminated-against-uk-job-market/
My head's all mushy from gardening today, best I can do tonight.
Which could of course work locally in a place like Minneapolis, but it would be an absolutely calamitous slogan for a national campaign and could easily sink a candidacy.
It got you talking about it.
Fixed.
Actually it wasn't the slogan.. It was watching Oliver that got me talking. Initially hearing the slogan had me silent because it sounded like what it sounded like. I feel sometimes messaging for progressive ideas is lacking and counter productive to getting people on board.
I am certain there are some Ukrainians as well. And maybe South Koreans?
A fundamental, bottom up, “scrap it all and start again” reimagining of the police is exactly what is needed and as much as “defund” might not immediate get across the nuance of the idea it’s good enough imo.
Times columnist Melanie Phillips:
Sick to death of columnist court jesters to the establishment like her. Johnson used to be one of them.
Sick to death of columnist court jesters to the establishment like her. Johnson used to be one of them.
Times columnist Melanie Phillips:
Sick to death of columnist court jesters to the establishment like her. Johnson used to be one of them.
“Perish the through”
Anyone can make a misteak.
Happens to the breast of us.
Freud will be pleased.
Times columnist Melanie Phillips:
Sick to death of columnist court jesters to the establishment like her. Johnson used to be one of them.
“Bad luck” is an angle I haven’t heard before.
“So listen, black people... all this poverty, discrimination and police brutality... did it ever occur to you that maybe you’re just really really unlucky?”
Even without considering the usual, expected stuff (distraction from their own failings, right-wing reactionary tendencies etc), I find the government's overreaction to the statue-toppling to be completely bizarre. I mean, we have the PM, Home Secretary and other high-ups doing press conferences, Johnson writing newspaper articles about it and so on, while their MPs call for the 'full force of the law' to be applied to those responsible...for the overthrow of a piece of metal far away from London. What gives? It was hardly the first blow of a revolution or even that Colston was a figure of such Conservative standing that the politicians were bound to be appalled...
They don't, and don't want to, understand. I recall Cameron - in his early days when even the Tory 'papers would ridicule him for being lightweight and green - saying that young people who were struggling financially should 'dip into their trust funds'.
This is such a dangerous rhetoric. Because if there is anything both dems and republicans have historically agreed upon, it is crime and policing. Never have dems stood up or fought against any of the racist policies in the past, let alone reform it. Making it about trump is just another lazy argument to avoid solving the issue but still keep benefiting from it.
Rather than defund the police, the right thing to do is require serving officers to carry their own individual, or group, liability insurance. Then, their rates are going to be driven by their conduct and vice versa. Repeat offenders won't be able to get insured and therefore won't be able to be cops.
‘They set us up’: US police arrested over 10,000 protesters, many non-violent
'More than 10,000 people have been arrested around the US during the protests, as police forces regularly use pepper spray, rubber bullets, teargas and batons on protesters, media and bystanders. Several major US cities have enacted curfews in an attempt to stop demonstrations and curb unrest.
Jarah Gibson was arrested while non-violently protesting in Atlanta, Georgia, on 1 June.
“The police were there from the jump and literally escorted us the whole march,” said Gibson. "The police are instigating everything and they are criminalizing us. Now I have my mugshot taken, my fingerprints taken and my eyes scanned. Now I’m a criminal over an illegal arrest,” added Gibson. “I want to be heard and I want the police to just abide by basic human decency.”'
(Guardian)
'More than 10,000 people have been arrested around the US during the protests, as police forces regularly use pepper spray, rubber bullets, teargas and batons on protesters, media and bystanders. Several major US cities have enacted curfews in an attempt to stop demonstrations and curb unrest.
Jarah Gibson was arrested while non-violently protesting in Atlanta, Georgia, on 1 June.
“The police were there from the jump and literally escorted us the whole march,” said Gibson. "The police are instigating everything and they are criminalizing us. Now I have my mugshot taken, my fingerprints taken and my eyes scanned. Now I’m a criminal over an illegal arrest,” added Gibson. “I want to be heard and I want the police to just abide by basic human decency.”'
(Guardian)
but in that case contact with the citizen would become, in some cases, a type of blackmail. Something like the customer who threatens the dependent with a claim sheet, if the service does not suit their tastes or if they do not get certain advantages.
It would mean creating widespread suspicions between the citizen and the police, questioning their authority.
Even if there is an atmosphere of tension, the entire police cannot be criminalized, nor can the law enforcement be treated like an administration clerk
Can't people already do that? Oh, they can and the public purse pays for it.
Trust clearly doesn't exist anymore. That's why we want them all wearing body cams.
Who's criminalizing them? Bad police officers get to hide behind their badge and the thin blue line while society pays the consequences for their litany of errors and abuses. Making them take on some of that responsibility will improve policing.
US need more political options. Seems it a bunch of money grabbing corrupt grubs who are in charge no matter whom you vote for. Democrats have so much to answer for with regard the the mess that the US is today.
Why should they? Because Garethw thinks flag burning means you hate your country?
Wouldn't it be more productive to address the reasons people feel that such a protest is required?