Gaming The Last of Us Part II (PS4)

BusbyMalone said:
Agreed. I can't believe this was the event that made every go ballistic and started calling it lazy and bad writing, etc. It's what I said above. The guy did some bad shit and screwed over loads of people. In this world, it was a matter of time. It makes perfect sense. You could see it in his face. He knew it was a matter of time. That said, I'm fecking gutted he's gone! I loved Joel. I thought they done a terrific job of ratcheting up the tension, though. My heart was going a million mile an hour :lol:
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Same here Busby.

Why does everything need to be presented with a nice little bow. The world doesnt work like that. There is a famous death in the Wire which comes out of nowhere and represents the fragility of death no matter who you are. Naughty Dog did a great job here with Joel in my opinion. He did some terrible things for love, but we sympathise with him. My issues lie with other aspects further on in the game.
 
It fits the world but doesn't fit the character. Joel is a character who wouldn't save a kid at the beginning of TloU, makes Tommy keep driving past that family. He's already wise to the world when the outbreak happens. There is also two more scenes that reaffirm this. In the city with Ellie in the car when the guy is faking injury he's like "Strap in Ellie, that guy ain't hurt" and when Ellie meets David. David is like "Whats your name?" and Ellies reply is "why?". Characters being intelligent with strangers.

In TLOU2, Tommy is like "Hi, I'm Tommy and this is Joel", when they arrive at Abby's crew, again "We're from the town just down there, I'm Tommy" "And I'm Joel!". Thats GoT season 8 levels of character stupidity from characters who are quite intelligent. Next you take Abby, Joel just saved her, you could understand her shooting him in a rage moment or whatever, but slowly beating him to a pulp with a golf club after he saved her, no way her story can become empathetic no matter how many dogs she pets.

Something as simple as Abby saving Joel instead of vice versa would have made Abby more empathetic and Joel more likely to drop his guard. Its not that Joel didn't deserve his end, he was a pretty bad dude, its that he didn't deserve to die to stupidity.

Then her group decides to be just as stupid as Joel and Tommy and let Ellie and Tommy live knowing the type of people they are. For real... its like watching The Walking Dead!

Its not the plot points that are bad, its how they reach them and this is a trend that continues throughout the game. Its rushed, puts people out of character and has them make decisions they'd never make just for plot convenience. This is where the story falls apart. They abandoned logic for shock value.

Side Note: Its most certainly not a 0/10 game like the review bombs nor a 10/10 like the "critics" say with such stupid characters but I've only seen youtube videos. I said I wouldn't buy it but I'm wavering, I don't think I'm in a position to judge it on anything other than story/visuals from YT videos. For me the game play would determine how I'd rate it so I am very tempted to pick it up.
 
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Interesting to see the people who were criticising the criticism actually like how the story is going compared to people who read the leaks and hated the story direction.

Don’t think people want to sway from their original views.

Im quite open minded about the game and there’s one thing in particular I dislike about it, but the ones who have no issue with the story currently. Doesn’t it look ridiculous when you see how the characters have suddenly changed personalities just to fit the plot narrative? It does seem lazy.
 
padr81 said:
It fits the world but doesn't fit the character. Joel is a character who wouldn't save a kid at the beginning of TloU, makes Tommy keep driving past that family. He's already wise to the world when the outbreak happens. There is also two more scenes that reaffirm this. In the city with Ellie in the car when the guy is faking injury he's like "Strap in Ellie, that guy ain't hurt" and when Ellie meets David. David is like "Whats your name?" and Ellies reply is "why?". Characters being intelligent with strangers.

In TLOU2, Tommy is like "Hi, I'm Tommy and this is Joel", when they arrive at Abby's crew, again "We're from the town just down there, I'm Tommy" "And I'm Joel!". Thats GoT season 8 levels of character stupidity from characters who are quite intelligent. Next you take Abby, Joel just saved her, you could understand her shooting him in a rage moment or whatever, but slowly beating him to a pulp with a golf club after he saved her, no way her story can become empathetic no matter how many dogs she pets.

Something as simple as Abby saving Joel instead of vice versa would have made Abby more empathetic and Joel more likely to drop his guard. Its not that Joel didn't deserve his end, he was a pretty bad dude, its that he didn't deserve to die to stupidity.

Then her group decides to be just as stupid as Joel and Tommy and let Ellie and Tommy live knowing the type of people they are. For real... its like watching The Walking Dead!

Its not the plot points that are bad, its how they reach them and this is a trend that continues throughout the game. Its rushed, puts people out of character and has them make decisions they'd never make just for plot convenience. This is where the story falls apart. They abandoned logic for shock value.

Side Note: Its most certainly not a 0/10 game like the review bombs nor a 10/10 like the "critics" say with such stupid characters but I've only seen youtube videos. I said I wouldn't buy it but I'm wavering, I don't think I'm in a position to judge it on anything other than story/visuals from YT videos. For me the game play would determine how I'd rate it so I am very tempted to pick it up.
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Your criticism is actually quite understandable and what turns me off from The Walking Dead / most horror movies. Im not that far in though so dunno how it will get further in.

Having spoiled yourself I wouldnt buy it though. Pointless game without the story if you ask me. All Naughty Dog games are mostly about story and experience with the gameplay being adequate enough to not make it a drag.

Would be kind of like playing Tetris for its story.
 
Lay said:
Interesting to see the people who were criticising the criticism actually like how the story is going compared to people who read the leaks and hated the story direction.

Don’t think people want to sway from their original views.

Im quite open minded about the game and there’s one thing in particular I dislike about it, but the ones who have no issue with the story currently. Doesn’t it look ridiculous when you see how the characters have suddenly changed personalities just to fit the plot narrative? It does seem lazy.
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Exactly this and thats what I've posted above. Its not the plot points that are bad, its how they reach those plot points. When you have intelligent characters completely change who they are and make stupid decisions just to drive the plot you are closer to The Walking Dead than you are to the original game. Dina is the only likable character who seems to use her brain and stick by her viewpoint.
 
KirkDuyt said:
Your criticism is actually quite understandable and what turns me off from The Walking Dead / most horror movies. Im not that far in though so dunno how it will get further in.
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Basically, I wish I didn't and I'd be knee deep in the game now. I was hyped for it and my brother was like "dude you gotta see the spoilers." (he loves spoilers, they don't mess with his enjoyment of anything, I'm a bit more reserved about them) to which I was like "feck off" but he pestered me and told me I'd regret it if I bought the game, I generally agree with his reviews and opinions on games/movies and books so took a look.

I wish I went into this game blind to be honest but I'm glad I didn't buy it at the same time. I'll probably cave once I platinum ff7. I've watched plenty of LP's but writing is not the entire game and I feel I'm missing some good gameplay.

That said different people like different things in story etc.. some people will love the shock value above consistent characters and that's great for them, I hope everyone who bought it genuinely enjoys it.
 
padr81 said:
It fits the world but doesn't fit the character. Joel is a character who wouldn't save a kid at the beginning of TloU, makes Tommy keep driving past that family. He's already wise to the world when the outbreak happens. There is also two more scenes that reaffirm this. In the city with Ellie in the car when the guy is faking injury he's like "Strap in Ellie, that guy ain't hurt" and when Ellie meets David. David is like "Whats your name?" and Ellies reply is "why?". Characters being intelligent with strangers.

In TLOU2, Tommy is like "Hi, I'm Tommy and this is Joel", when they arrive at Abby's crew, again "We're from the town just down there, I'm Tommy" "And I'm Joel!". Thats GoT season 8 levels of character stupidity from characters who are quite intelligent. Next you take Abby, Joel just saved her, you could understand her shooting him in a rage moment or whatever, but slowly beating him to a pulp with a golf club after he saved her, no way her story can become empathetic no matter how many dogs she pets.

Something as simple as Abby saving Joel instead of vice versa would have made Abby more empathetic and Joel more likely to drop his guard. Its not that Joel didn't deserve his end, he was a pretty bad dude, its that he didn't deserve to die to stupidity.

Then her group decides to be just as stupid as Joel and Tommy and let Ellie and Tommy live knowing the type of people they are. For real... its like watching The Walking Dead!

Its not the plot points that are bad, its how they reach them and this is a trend that continues throughout the game. Its rushed, puts people out of character and has them make decisions they'd never make just for plot convenience. This is where the story falls apart. They abandoned logic for shock value.
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I don't see a big issue with that at all, to be honest. There might be more to come that contradicts this, but I could easily see it as a sign that Joel has mellowed a bit and has had to put a lot of trust issues aside. In the first game Ellie got through to him like no other person for 20 years and living a real life in a community for 5 years must've had a significant impact. He was suriving for 20 years, now he was actually living. We don't know how many other newcomers they've accepted in their community in those years. It felt natural when I saw it happening before me and I wasn't screaming at the characters like I did for so many season of The Walking Dead before I gave up on it.

As for the others letting Tommy and Ellie live, well you could see there was a big disagreement between several people of that group. Clearly not all of them were ruthless killers and perhaps they were wary of going too far in their quest for revenge. In some of them (notably that one guy who spoke to Abby at the start), it seemed the lust for revenge on Joel himself had already cooled significantly. It felt like they drew a line in the sand for themselves, and that line was reached after killing Joel.

I feel like these characters were written with a lot more nuance than you've presented it. I could be proven completely wrong by events later down the line but that's my view up to this point in any case.
 
Good points padr. I see where you are coming from. I guess I am able to overlook those aspects and enjoy what I am served up on the plate. Game of thrones though was stretching it further with their nonsense
 
Gringo said:
Good points padr. I see where you are coming from. I guess I am able to overlook those aspects and enjoy what I am served up on the plate. Game of thrones though was stretching it further with their nonsense
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A lot further a harsh comparison for sure, but it was the closest thing at the time in my head.
 
padr81 said:
It fits the world but doesn't fit the character. Joel is a character who wouldn't save a kid at the beginning of TloU, makes Tommy keep driving past that family. He's already wise to the world when the outbreak happens. There is also two more scenes that reaffirm this. In the city with Ellie in the car when the guy is faking injury he's like "Strap in Ellie, that guy ain't hurt" and when Ellie meets David. David is like "Whats your name?" and Ellies reply is "why?". Characters being intelligent with strangers.

In TLOU2, Tommy is like "Hi, I'm Tommy and this is Joel", when they arrive at Abby's crew, again "We're from the town just down there, I'm Tommy" "And I'm Joel!". Thats GoT season 8 levels of character stupidity from characters who are quite intelligent. Next you take Abby, Joel just saved her, you could understand her shooting him in a rage moment or whatever, but slowly beating him to a pulp with a golf club after he saved her, no way her story can become empathetic no matter how many dogs she pets.

Something as simple as Abby saving Joel instead of vice versa would have made Abby more empathetic and Joel more likely to drop his guard. Its not that Joel didn't deserve his end, he was a pretty bad dude, its that he didn't deserve to die to stupidity.

Then her group decides to be just as stupid as Joel and Tommy and let Ellie and Tommy live knowing the type of people they are. For real... its like watching The Walking Dead!

Its not the plot points that are bad, its how they reach them and this is a trend that continues throughout the game. Its rushed, puts people out of character and has them make decisions they'd never make just for plot convenience. This is where the story falls apart. They abandoned logic for shock value.

Side Note: Its most certainly not a 0/10 game like the review bombs nor a 10/10 like the "critics" say with such stupid characters but I've only seen youtube videos. I said I wouldn't buy it but I'm wavering, I don't think I'm in a position to judge it on anything other than story/visuals from YT videos. For me the game play would determine how I'd rate it so I am very tempted to pick it up.
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I mean at this point it's been four years right? They're living in a secluded safe city and seems like they just go on patrol and kill the odd infected but don't have many other worries. Maybe this was the only time he did actually drop his guard and it cost him. Sometimes people die in shitty ways.
 
Ainu said:
I don't see a big issue with that at all, to be honest. There might be more to come that contradicts this, but I could easily see it as a sign that Joel has mellowed a bit and has had to put a lot of trust issues aside. In the first game Ellie got through to him like no other person for 20 years and living a real life in a community for 5 years must've had a significant impact. He was suriving for 20 years, now he was actually living. We don't know how many other newcomers they've accepted in their community in those years. It felt natural when I saw it happening before me and I wasn't screaming at the characters like I did for so many season of The Walking Dead before I gave up on it.

As for the others letting Tommy and Ellie live, well you could see there was a big disagreement between several people of that group. Clearly not all of them were ruthless killers and perhaps they were wary of going too far in their quest for revenge. In some of them (notably that one guy who spoke to Abby at the start), it seemed the lust for revenge on Joel himself had already cooled significantly. It felt like they drew a line in the sand for themselves, and that line was reached after killing Joel.

I feel like these characters were written with a lot more nuance than you've presented it. I could be proven completely wrong by events later down the line but that's my view up to this point in any case.
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Thats fair, I think he has mellowed but I don't think he'd be that stupid. Its literally a gang of strangers hanging round his town and he kinda buys "Just passing through". It just seems illogical to me. There was a big disagreement but the decision is till crazy. I actually like Owen as a character too, it just seems too many people making silly decisions for the sake of convenience, something that doesn't really happen in the first game.

I will also hold my hands up and say I am judging this harsh because its the Last of Us. The writing in part 1 was near perfect. This one feels like bog standard video game writing by comparison.
 
padr81 said:
Thats fair, I think he has mellowed but I don't think he'd be that stupid. Its literally a gang of strangers hanging round his town and he kinda buys "Just passing through". It just seems illogical to me. There was a big disagreement but the decision is till crazy. I actually like Owen as a character too, it just seems too many people making silly decisions for the sake of convenience, something that doesn't really happen in the first game.

I will also hold my hands up and say I am judging this harsh because its the Last of Us. The writing in part 1 was near perfect. This one feels like bog standard video game writing by comparison.
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I believe they were also somewhat bound by circumstance. Joel and Tommy were forced out there in that blizzard all the same and they had to go somewhere, unless I'm already remembering that sequence wrongly. If that was the closest place that was guaranteed safe from infected, there wasn't much of a choice at that point.

And the Washington group, I still don't see it as a silly decision. I really don't think it's such an easy decision to have two more deaths on your conscience, especially if you believe them to be "innocent" people (as in, they haven't wronged you). Our point of view is still twisted in that sense. As players and observers, video game deaths mean very little to us unless it happens to beloved characters. Even in a world such as that though, death still has a lot more weight for a lot of people. I'm sure some of that group would've killed them without hesitation if there others weren't there. As it happened, it's a decision that they will undoubtedly regret later, but that's how life goes sometimes. I experienced it all as decisions that made sense for the characters at that point in time.
 
Ainu said:
It was the same for me, the snowy stuff is beautiful and the attention to detail is exceptional, but when I reached the forest just before Seattle I really had to stop and admire. Everything about it is just so stunning. I walked through that section as slowly as I possibly could to take it all in.

I don't hate it either. I feel terrible that it happened, I resent these people for what they did (after Joel helped save Abby no less), but I don't hate the creative decision to go there nor the way it was written. It fits the world. Joel is a survivor and has done horrible stuff to get to this point. I'm not even sure I truly despise the people who did it, because it's easy to see where revenge can take you. We feel it through Ellie. We all knew the story needed a catalyst to turn ugly and I can't think of a better one than this.

I don't know if this is what a lot of people hate about it and I don't need to know. Anyone reading this, please don't even reply to it with something like "no it's something else, you'll see". All I know is this is the one thing that made someone angry enough to become a complete asshole and spoil it for myself and a bunch of other people, by putting something like this under an article about the PS5 gameplay reveal: "Sony's biggest problem is xxx (can't even remember this part LOL) and that Abby kills Joel with a golf club". I stumbled onto that comment and read it before I even realised it. Didn't even know who Abby was at the time. And then I started playing, took control of an unnamed woman who clearly had a grudge with someone at Jackson and knew, well shit, the spoiler is real. Kinda glad I got it out of the way early.
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That's a shame you had that particular part spoiled. People are fecking arseholes, as we continue to see with the user review on Metacritic.

For a second though, when she picked up that golf club, I genuinely thought they were going to give control back to me and I would have to swing the club. Now if they did that, my reaction would be different! I'm glad they didn't, obviously. I'm gutted he's gone though. I'm interested to see more of this Abby character. I still hate her at the moment! But as i said, I've only just arrived in Seattle so have so much more of the game to play
 
padr81 said:
It fits the world but doesn't fit the character. Joel is a character who wouldn't save a kid at the beginning of TloU, makes Tommy keep driving past that family. He's already wise to the world when the outbreak happens. There is also two more scenes that reaffirm this. In the city with Ellie in the car when the guy is faking injury he's like "Strap in Ellie, that guy ain't hurt" and when Ellie meets David. David is like "Whats your name?" and Ellies reply is "why?". Characters being intelligent with strangers.

In TLOU2, Tommy is like "Hi, I'm Tommy and this is Joel", when they arrive at Abby's crew, again "We're from the town just down there, I'm Tommy" "And I'm Joel!". Thats GoT season 8 levels of character stupidity from characters who are quite intelligent. Next you take Abby, Joel just saved her, you could understand her shooting him in a rage moment or whatever, but slowly beating him to a pulp with a golf club after he saved her, no way her story can become empathetic no matter how many dogs she pets.

Something as simple as Abby saving Joel instead of vice versa would have made Abby more empathetic and Joel more likely to drop his guard. Its not that Joel didn't deserve his end, he was a pretty bad dude, its that he didn't deserve to die to stupidity.

Then her group decides to be just as stupid as Joel and Tommy and let Ellie and Tommy live knowing the type of people they are. For real... its like watching The Walking Dead!

Its not the plot points that are bad, its how they reach them and this is a trend that continues throughout the game. Its rushed, puts people out of character and has them make decisions they'd never make just for plot convenience. This is where the story falls apart. They abandoned logic for shock value.

Side Note: Its most certainly not a 0/10 game like the review bombs nor a 10/10 like the "critics" say with such stupid characters but I've only seen youtube videos. I said I wouldn't buy it but I'm wavering, I don't think I'm in a position to judge it on anything other than story/visuals from YT videos. For me the game play would determine how I'd rate it so I am very tempted to pick it up.
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But Joel has changed as a character. People change. If he hadn't changed at all, then there would be criticism around that, too. The fact that he drove past that family at the beginning is a poor comparison. Shit had just hit the fan, everyone was going crazy, nobody knew what the feck was going on and they had to get out of there. This is over two decades later! I mean, he's gone through a massive transformation. He's way more mellow; he's very protective of Ellie which has probably softened him somewhat. He's now living in a community with others where they all help each other out. He's probably made friends and has other relationships. And as I said, this is over two decades later. He's older. He's probably a bit more trusting than he was years ago when he was still raw and angry. Comparing it to GOT season 8 is a bit ridiculous and hyperbolic, honestly.

As for Abby, I genuinely don't know much about her character as I'm only 4 hours into the game, so don't say anything if you do. Maybe we'll see another side. I agree that the way he went out was brutal and I hate her at the moment because I loved Joel. But we'll see where it goes. Maybe her story won't be empathetic, and maybe that's the point. The one thing I will agree with you on is the fact that they left Tommy and Ellie alive. That's a bit of an eye-roller that one. They obviously had to get the feck out of there double-quick, but yeah, it seems like a bad idea. It's a bit of a genre trope in all honestly so I'm not going to judge it too harshly.

EDIT: Just to say, you seem like you enjoy your games and you were pretty hyped for this one but obviously reading all the spoilers beforehand was a really bad move, probably. It has obviously tainted your view of the game, which is a shame because no matter what anyone says, you are still experiencing those spoilers in isolation and with no context. Also, the conversation around this game is hard to escape at the moment and that has a big impact. I've honestly stopped reading stuff on the game now. I want to make my own mind up now without being influenced by outside sources. Obviously you can do what you want - doesn't' bother me whether you buy it nor not, but it would probably be a shame if you didn't experience it yourself without being bombarded with everyone else's opinion before you even pick up the controller. At this point, you probably can't even give it a fair shake.
 
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11 hours into the game and I haven't had an agenda pushed on me yet, I'm kind of disappointed. Is the agenda pushing part further into the game?

Jokes aside, this game is fecking brutal to play. Probably a weird thing to focus on, but I'm really enjoying how realistic the shadows are when you're using your flashlight and moving around in a dark room. It definitely adds to the tension.
 
BusbyMalone said:
I'm not too much further into the game

I agree with you about Abby. I like her as a character. Very interested to see more of her. I also thought the beginning was a nice little touch with Ellie and Joel. That was a nice moment. In terms of how the game looks, I was similar to you in that I thought the game looked good but not mindblowing. But when you get to other areas it really does improve dramatically (for me it did anyway). It just sort of clicked and I thought "oh, this is why the game was getting so much praise for looking so good" Be interested to see if you think the same.
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Very interesting! I'll keep an eye out for what you say. I think my problem was playing The Witcher 3 on PC a couple of nights before and having rose tinted spectacles on thinking about what all the trailers looked like.

On another note it's really funny seeing the difference between how Ellie and Abby deal with stealth kills. Ellie goes in quickly and sticks the shiv in whilst Abby just dive bombs them and chokes then out. I don't know why but it reminded me of Casino Royale where the agile bomb maker parkours through a high vent and then Bond just runs through the wall like a rhino :lol:

Abby also brings back some conflicted memories for me since one of my exes was a rugby player. Fond memories or PTSD depending on who was holding the leash that night. But that's a story for another time.
 
padr81 said:
It fits the world but doesn't fit the character. Joel is a character who wouldn't save a kid at the beginning of TloU, makes Tommy keep driving past that family. He's already wise to the world when the outbreak happens. There is also two more scenes that reaffirm this. In the city with Ellie in the car when the guy is faking injury he's like "Strap in Ellie, that guy ain't hurt" and when Ellie meets David. David is like "Whats your name?" and Ellies reply is "why?". Characters being intelligent with strangers.

In TLOU2, Tommy is like "Hi, I'm Tommy and this is Joel", when they arrive at Abby's crew, again "We're from the town just down there, I'm Tommy" "And I'm Joel!". Thats GoT season 8 levels of character stupidity from characters who are quite intelligent. Next you take Abby, Joel just saved her, you could understand her shooting him in a rage moment or whatever, but slowly beating him to a pulp with a golf club after he saved her, no way her story can become empathetic no matter how many dogs she pets.

Something as simple as Abby saving Joel instead of vice versa would have made Abby more empathetic and Joel more likely to drop his guard. Its not that Joel didn't deserve his end, he was a pretty bad dude, its that he didn't deserve to die to stupidity.

Then her group decides to be just as stupid as Joel and Tommy and let Ellie and Tommy live knowing the type of people they are. For real... its like watching The Walking Dead!

Its not the plot points that are bad, its how they reach them and this is a trend that continues throughout the game. Its rushed, puts people out of character and has them make decisions they'd never make just for plot convenience. This is where the story falls apart. They abandoned logic for shock value.

Side Note: Its most certainly not a 0/10 game like the review bombs nor a 10/10 like the "critics" say with such stupid characters but I've only seen youtube videos. I said I wouldn't buy it but I'm wavering, I don't think I'm in a position to judge it on anything other than story/visuals from YT videos. For me the game play would determine how I'd rate it so I am very tempted to pick it up.
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Lay said:
Interesting to see the people who were criticising the criticism actually like how the story is going compared to people who read the leaks and hated the story direction.

Don’t think people want to sway from their original views.

Im quite open minded about the game and there’s one thing in particular I dislike about it, but the ones who have no issue with the story currently. Doesn’t it look ridiculous when you see how the characters have suddenly changed personalities just to fit the plot narrative? It does seem lazy.
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each to their own but I thought their change in attitudes was meant to reflect how relaxed they've become in life? They live in this big bustling town where people hang out, drink, and have snowball fights with kids. In fact, I remember walking out with Ellie at the start of the game and finding myself staring at the parent helping their little toddler to walk down a flight of stairs, just open mouthed.

They've started to forget how harsh the world is because things are starting to feel like they were before for people like Tommy and Joel. They remember when life was calmer and although they still go out it's regimented. The log sheets for patrols exist because they all live in a world now that lets them waste time doing something more than just surviving, and trying to find a place to hide. The town is their sanctuary but it's also made them soft.

I dunno, I'm not too far in yet (not even in Seattle) but I had the misfortune of seeing the leaks and I always felt that people like Joel, especially after what he did at the end of the first one, will do anything that he can to just pretend that his life could go back to the way things were before. His turn in the first as he slowly started to become less distant to Ellie and lose his steely resolve was the start of him beginning to crumble. His own selfishness taking her away from the Fireflies and dooming mankind has to be something that he hopes had a meaning. He doesn't want to admit that the world around him is still a mess.
 
esmufc07 said:
So is this good?
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Ignore the bullshit, it's fecking great. The gameplay is everything you liked about the first game (assuming you did) but much better.

The story is also really good so far (about half way).
 
Mogget said:
11 hours into the game and I haven't had an agenda pushed on me yet, I'm kind of disappointed. Is the agenda pushing part further into the game?

Jokes aside, this game is fecking brutal to play. Probably a weird thing to focus on, but I'm really enjoying how realistic the shadows are when you're using your flashlight and moving around in a dark room. It definitely adds to the tension.
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There is zero agenda pushing in this game. Literally none. In fact bar one comment at the start
bigot sandwiches
there is none. All the lgbt+ characters have been handled well.
The fact she's straight and just not pretty must be a proper kick in the teeth to those who tried to use it as a stick to beat Naughty Dog. Her look is actually perfect for the world they live in. She's big and strong and tough because the world demands people be able to look out for themselves.
 
padr81 said:
There is zero agenda pushing in this game. Literally none. In fact bar one comment at the start
bigot sandwiches
there is none. All the lgbt+ characters have been handled well.
The fact she's straight and just not pretty must be a proper kick in the teeth to those who tried to use it as a stick to beat Naughty Dog. Her look is actually perfect for the world they live in. She's big and strong and tough because the world demands people be able to look out for themselves.
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Yeah I didn't expect there to be, but you wouldn't have thought that judging by the meltdown before the game was even released.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
each to their own but I thought their change in attitudes was meant to reflect how relaxed they've become in life? They live in this big bustling town where people hang out, drink, and have snowball fights with kids. In fact, I remember walking out with Ellie at the start of the game and finding myself staring at the parent helping their little toddler to walk down a flight of stairs, just open mouthed.

They've started to forget how harsh the world is because things are starting to feel like they were before for people like Tommy and Joel. They remember when life was calmer and although they still go out it's regimented. The log sheets for patrols exist because they all live in a world now that lets them waste time doing something more than just surviving, and trying to find a place to hide. The town is their sanctuary but it's also made them soft.

I dunno, I'm not too far in yet (not even in Seattle) but I had the misfortune of seeing the leaks and I always felt that people like Joel, especially after what he did at the end of the first one, will do anything that he can to just pretend that his life could go back to the way things were before. His turn in the first as he slowly started to become less distant to Ellie and lose his steely resolve was the start of him beginning to crumble. His own selfishness taking her away from the Fireflies and dooming mankind has to be something that he hopes had a meaning. He doesn't want to admit that the world around him is still a mess.
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@BusbyMalone and @Ainu I'll just tag you guys as its easier than quoting 3 messages.
I think you can become milder without becoming/being silly in your decisions. Even going back with Abby to me is a crazy decision on their part, yes the storm was bad but walking into a house full of people they don't know, even after years in Jackson just doesn't seem logical espcially given how Ellie, Jesse and Abby still treat the world. I think we're at an impasse with regards the writing, and we'll probably be going around in circles.

But its kind of cool we can discuss this stuff now the game is out without the usual suspects making it political like on other forums.

On the plus side you guys have convinced me to buy it to feck. Even if I do hate it, I mean I'd piss the amount away on a Saturday night soon as pubs open and its not like my personal stance is gonna deny Neil Druckmann his solid gold toilet.
 
Mogget said:
Yeah I didn't expect there to be, but you wouldn't have thought that judging by the meltdown before the game was even released.
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Thats the problem you have these uber right and uber left wing people on social media sadly who want to politicize everything to belittle the others. The amount of times I've been accused of being Donald Trump for not liking a video game story and lumped in with the homophobes and racists is mental as is the amount of people using a character in a video game to promote homophobia. 99% (maybe closer to 90%) of people are logical and sit somewhere in the middle, sadly the 1% ruin it for everyone (as the contrasting reviews show).

I legit saw one person say the game was promoting being Jewish over Christian because Dina talks to Ellie about her religion when they stumble upon a Synagogue? (hope thats the right word but religion is not my strong point)
 
Mr Pigeon said:
each to their own but I thought their change in attitudes was meant to reflect how relaxed they've become in life? They live in this big bustling town where people hang out, drink, and have snowball fights with kids. In fact, I remember walking out with Ellie at the start of the game and finding myself staring at the parent helping their little toddler to walk down a flight of stairs, just open mouthed.

They've started to forget how harsh the world is because things are starting to feel like they were before for people like Tommy and Joel. They remember when life was calmer and although they still go out it's regimented. The log sheets for patrols exist because they all live in a world now that lets them waste time doing something more than just surviving, and trying to find a place to hide. The town is their sanctuary but it's also made them soft.

I dunno, I'm not too far in yet (not even in Seattle) but I had the misfortune of seeing the leaks and I always felt that people like Joel, especially after what he did at the end of the first one, will do anything that he can to just pretend that his life could go back to the way things were before. His turn in the first as he slowly started to become less distant to Ellie and lose his steely resolve was the start of him beginning to crumble. His own selfishness taking her away from the Fireflies and dooming mankind has to be something that he hopes had a meaning. He doesn't want to admit that the world around him is still a mess.
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I think my problem with the characterisation of Joel in that scene is more of a structual one. By putting the sequence so early in the story there was not really enough time for the writers to establish that Joel had mellowed and grown careless. Having the first story so fresh in my mind by replaying it in anticipation of the second part made that shift in personality so jarring that it completely took me out of the story.

I also disagree that the quiet life in the village made him that careless because he forgot the world around him. That is because I don´t attribute his keen instinct and cautious behaviour to the world molding it into him but something he already had and what allowed him to survive for so long in the first place. Look how in the very beginning of the first story when the pandemic was just starting he took on a leadership role and guided his brother in the car and even ignored people begging for help in favour of protecting his family.

So for me it was not really reverting to the person he was before the world became a shit show, but actually shifting a core personality trait to move the plot along. This can very well be done, but for me something like that has to be developed and earned to go along with it. For me the writers did not managed it so it became a clear case of pushing a character in a direction that felt unnatural and out of character to get him to the place the plot demanded. Given that this moment was the catalyst for the entire story the writers did not put enough work into it.

Actually a shame given that the game looks stunning and has a good gameflow.
 
padr81 said:
@BusbyMalone and @Ainu I'll just tag you guys as its easier than quoting 3 messages.
I think you can become milder without becoming/being silly in your decisions. Even going back with Abby to me is a crazy decision on their part, yes the storm was bad but walking into a house full of people they don't know, even after years in Jackson just doesn't seem logical espcially given how Ellie, Jesse and Abby still treat the world. I think we're at an impasse with regards the writing, and we'll probably be going around in circles.

But its kind of cool we can discuss this stuff now the game is out without the usual suspects making it political like on other forums.

On the plus side you guys have convinced me to buy it to feck. Even if I do hate it, I mean I'd piss the amount away on a Saturday night soon as pubs open and its not like my personal stance is gonna deny Neil Druckmann his solid gold toilet.
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Sphaero said:
I think my problem with the characterisation of Joel in that scene is more of a structual one. By putting the sequence so early in the story there was not really enough time for the writers to establish that Joel had mellowed and grown careless. Having the first story so fresh in my mind by replaying it in anticipation of the second part made that shift in personality so jarring that it completely took me out of the story.

I also disagree that the quiet life in the village made him that careless because he forgot the world around him. That is because I don´t attribute his keen instinct and cautious behaviour to the world molding it into him but something he already had and what allowed him to survive for so long in the first place. Look how in the very beginning of the first story when the pandemic was just starting he took on a leadership role and guided his brother in the car and even ignored people begging for help in favour of protecting his family.

So for me it was not really reverting to the person he was before the world became a shit show, but actually shifting a core personality trait to move the plot along. This can very well be done, but for me something like that has to be developed and earned to go along with it. For me the writers did not managed it so it became a clear case of pushing a character in a direction that felt unnatural and out of character to get him to the place the plot demanded. Given that this moment was the catalyst for the entire story the writers did not put enough work into it.

Actually a shame given that the game looks stunning and has a good gameflow.
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Fair play and, echoing padr81, it's good that we can have civilised discussions about these things.

Having said that you're both bigot sandwiches who probably also hated the Ghostbusters and Oceans remakes. HeheheahahharharharharahahahhHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHHHAHHAAHHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAowfeck
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Fair play and, echoing padr81, it's good that we can have civilised discussions about these things.

Having said that you're both bigot sandwiches who probably also hated the Ghostbusters and Oceans remakes. HeheheahahharharharharahahahhHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHHHAHHAAHHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAowfeck
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Hah, jokes on you. I even found the orignial ones silly xD
 
Well, that was amazing. Gonna start another playthrough this week. Delighted with the direction Naughty Dog took with the game, they never disappoint.
 
Can somebody tell me (without spoilers ofc) how far I am through the story? Really enjoying it but now I feel like I'm rushing through it. It's too addictive!

I'm up to the part where you meet Jessie again. Looks like the next bit is a flashback with Tommy.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
Can somebody tell me (without spoilers ofc) how far I am through the story? Really enjoying it but now I feel like I'm rushing through it. It's too addictive!

I'm up to the part where you meet Jessie again. Looks like the next bit is a flashback with Tommy.
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You’re not halfway yet. But you’re close. After the boat area..
 
PhilQ said:
Well, that was amazing. Gonna start another playthrough this week. Delighted with the direction Naughty Dog took with the game, they never disappoint.
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Did you beat it? I’m at the halfway point right now doing something “different”. But I’m worried how this part is going to change my opinion of the game. I’m really enjoying it right now.
 
Sphaero said:
Hah, jokes on you. I even found the orignial ones silly xD
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I think you might be me from a different country with better grammar. I found both original movies as bad as the re-imaginings.
 
I've been watching my boyfriend play this the graphics are incredible think gaming eventually will be like watching tv

I managed to convince him to let me get him to the next mission, I'm having a great time galloping along enjoying the scenery....

Spoiler: Seattle

of course it's the scene where your horse gets blown up on a trap the bad people had left I thought I'd fecked up his mission :lol: the same happened when he let me play Red Dead I was meant to purely get him to the next mission and ended up causing carnage fortunately this time it wasnt my fault!
 
Holy feckballs, my poor heart after this section. That whole stretch with the dogs and houses that culminates with Jesse finding Ellie and escaping (sort of) by car was so incredibly intense. It just kept going and I kept finding new ways to totally mess up my stealth and deplete my arsenal. The music made the whole thing even more stressful. It was great, but I need a break now. It's been a hell of a ride until now and I haven't even encountered any Scars yet. I'm already dreading that moment. I'm also scared to death about what might happen to Jesse or Dina further on down the line. This game might break me.
 
AaronRedDevil said:
Did you beat it? I’m at the halfway point right now doing something “different”. But I’m worried how this part is going to change my opinion of the game. I’m really enjoying it right now.
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Yeah finished it earlier. There were parts like that for me too but its all brought together wonderfully. Imo at least.

Might have to play something light hearted next.
 
I think this is the only game where I’ve not shot at random things to see what happens. Too concerned about my lack of ammo :lol:
 
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