SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

DoomSlayer said:
Thank you so much for the kind words. We couldn't even see him before he passed away as he lives on the other side of the country. I don't know how my father or my grandparents will ever deal with this. My dad was crying like a little child on the phone, it broke my heart. He already lost his whole livelihood due to this fecking virus, this is just not fair...
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Oh man, I'm so so sorry for your loss. Sending you and your family all the best wishes in the world.
 
My girlfriend has an office job, and has been shielding for months, as she has some underlying health conditions that would make her particularly susceptible to the virus. This has been fine, as there have been no significant issues with WFH.

However, her company are starting to pressure her to come back to the office from August, as that is when the government shielding program is due to end. Is that right? She feels very uncomfortable about this given that she'll need to take the tube/ bus to work. I read on the government website that;
  • Businesses and workplaces should make every reasonable effort to enable working from home as a first option.
Or does this advice has a timestamp on it? I don't know what her rights are, if her company is going against the government guidelines, or if there's an obvious way to tell.
 
DoomSlayer said:
I hope this is the right thread to share this, but my uncle died from Covid today. Being devastated is more than an understatement. My dad is mentally broken down from it.
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I'm truly sorry to hear that. Best wishes to you and all your family.
 
Sassy Colin said:
That could be any late night on Old Compton St, how do we know it was last night? Tends to be like that at chucking out theatre time but theatres are not open.
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It seems the video is genuine, as many other users and the media are reporting the news. You make a very good point doubting it though, as too many people tend to accept whatever is told to them on Internet uncritically these days.

Either that or people are truly blithering idiots and they deserve everything coming to them, but no doubt the Government will get the blame.
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I've seen people acting very stupidly in other countries too. I guess at the end of the day everyone will blame everyone, that's inevitable.
 
ThierryHenry said:
My girlfriend has an office job, and has been shielding for months, as she has some underlying health conditions that would make her particularly susceptible to the virus. This has been fine, as there have been no significant issues with WFH.

However, her company are starting to pressure her to come back to the office from August, as that is when the government shielding program is due to end. Is that right? She feels very uncomfortable about this given that she'll need to take the tube/ bus to work. I read on the government website that;
  • Businesses and workplaces should make every reasonable effort to enable working from home as a first option.
Or does this advice has a timestamp on it? I don't know what her rights are, if her company is going against the government guidelines, or if there's an obvious way to tell.
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She needs to speak to her employer. This might help - https://www.acas.org.uk/coronavirus/vulnerable-people-and-high-risk
 
ThierryHenry said:
My girlfriend has an office job, and has been shielding for months, as she has some underlying health conditions that would make her particularly susceptible to the virus. This has been fine, as there have been no significant issues with WFH.

However, her company are starting to pressure her to come back to the office from August, as that is when the government shielding program is due to end. Is that right? She feels very uncomfortable about this given that she'll need to take the tube/ bus to work. I read on the government website that;
  • Businesses and workplaces should make every reasonable effort to enable working from home as a first option.
Or does this advice has a timestamp on it? I don't know what her rights are, if her company is going against the government guidelines, or if there's an obvious way to tell.
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Work should absolutely try and get her to continue working from home as much as possible
She could try contacting her occupational health department if there is one, speak to a union rep if possible prior to speaking to the line manager
Then there is also the Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service (ACAS) where she can get advice from on 0300 123 1100 or by visiting - https://www.acas.org.uk/ or even the HSE if work are being complete dicks but hopefully it won't come to that - https://www.hse.gov.uk/contact/concerns.htm

As per government guidelines - https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ng-extremely-vulnerable-persons-from-covid-19
From 1 August, you’ll be advised you could go out to more places and see more people, for example, the advice is:
  • you can go to work, as long as the workplace is COVID-secure – but carry on working from home if you can
  • If you have recently been told that you are clinically extremely vulnerable you should talk to your employer as soon as possible and discuss and agree your options around work.
  • If you’re able to work from home you should do so, and your employer is expected to help you to do this. At times, it may be appropriate for you to take up an alternative role or adjust your working patterns temporarily.
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DoomSlayer said:
I hope this is the right thread to share this, but my uncle died from Covid today. Being devastated is more than an understatement. My dad is mentally broken down from it.
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I'm very sorry for your loss, I can't imagine the pain you are feeling. My deepest sympathies to you and your family.
 
ThierryHenry said:
My girlfriend has an office job, and has been shielding for months, as she has some underlying health conditions that would make her particularly susceptible to the virus. This has been fine, as there have been no significant issues with WFH.

However, her company are starting to pressure her to come back to the office from August, as that is when the government shielding program is due to end. Is that right? She feels very uncomfortable about this given that she'll need to take the tube/ bus to work. I read on the government website that;
  • Businesses and workplaces should make every reasonable effort to enable working from home as a first option.
Or does this advice has a timestamp on it? I don't know what her rights are, if her company is going against the government guidelines, or if there's an obvious way to tell.
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Lots of companies are going to make unreasonable requests like this, unfortunately, even when people have proven their ability to work successfully from home. My advice would be for her to join a relevant trade union for some support if needed.
 
I really appreciate every thoughtful comment, thank you all. Sorry if I derailed the thread, I just felt like I had to share this somewhere, because it's really weighing on my chest. Best wishes to everyone and all your loved ones.
 
DoomSlayer said:
I really appreciate every thoughtful comment, thank you all. Sorry if I derailed the thread, I just felt like I had to share this somewhere, because it's really weighing on my chest. Best wishes to everyone and all your loved ones.
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No need to apologise at all. Condolences to you and your family and please do share or post if you need help or someone to talk to. Although this place is full of nutters we'll always try to look after each other.
 
DoomSlayer said:
I really appreciate every thoughtful comment, thank you all. Sorry if I derailed the thread, I just felt like I had to share this somewhere, because it's really weighing on my chest. Best wishes to everyone and all your loved ones.
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Very sorry to hear about your loss. Strength and all the best to you and your family!
 
DoomSlayer said:
I really appreciate every thoughtful comment, thank you all. Sorry if I derailed the thread, I just felt like I had to share this somewhere, because it's really weighing on my chest. Best wishes to everyone and all your loved ones.
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So sorry to hear of your loss mate. All the best.
 
Sassy Colin said:
Either that or people are truly blithering idiots and they deserve everything coming to them, but no doubt the Government will get the blame.
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The government are the blithering idiots for relaxing restrictions, as the idiots on the street aren't only risking their own health but the lives of others.
 
DoomSlayer said:
I really appreciate every thoughtful comment, thank you all. Sorry if I derailed the thread, I just felt like I had to share this somewhere, because it's really weighing on my chest. Best wishes to everyone and all your loved ones.
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I can't imagine a more on-topic post. Real people with loved ones are dieing of this. I hope your family get through this as best you can. :(
 
DoomSlayer said:
I hope this is the right thread to share this, but my uncle died from Covid today. Being devastated is more than an understatement. My dad is mentally broken down from it.
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Very sorry to hear this mate. I genuinely wish strength to you, your dad and your family. Think about the good times and look after one another.
 
DoomSlayer said:
I really appreciate every thoughtful comment, thank you all. Sorry if I derailed the thread, I just felt like I had to share this somewhere, because it's really weighing on my chest. Best wishes to everyone and all your loved ones.
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Sincere condolences for your devastating loss. Wishing you and your family all the best.
 
Redplane said:
When you look beyond just cases or deaths and also factor in tests per capita, deaths per capita etc is there any western nation in worse shape than the UK, when you factor in all those metrics?
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Tests per capita UK is pretty much third best in the West, behind Denmark and Iceland.

Deaths per capita only Belgium is worse.
 
hobbers said:
Tests per capita UK is pretty much third best in the West, behind Denmark and Iceland.

Deaths per capita only Belgium is worse.
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Hmmm yeah I m finding the same with deaths per capita though depending on what graph I'm looking at Belgium is now no. 2 with either Yemen or San Marino first for deaths per capita. For testing though I'm finding the UK lagging behind a bit though.. Hovering around no. 15-20 depending on what chart you pull up. Where did you find the tests per capita? Genuinely curious bc we seem to agree on the death rate.

Europe re opening its borders to many countries will be a very interesting excercise in how well its being contained with some of the new measures in place. Curious to see the stats in about 2-4 weeks.
 
hobbers said:
Tests per capita UK is pretty much third best in the West, behind Denmark and Iceland.

Deaths per capita only Belgium is worse.
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I don't know about other countries but testing figures in the UK are close to meaningless as they have no idea how many people have been tested. Some are tested multiple times and tests that have been posted out and not returned are counted as tests done.

And tests per capital are behind the US, Australia, NZ and Ireland and about the same as places like Germany. But, and a huge but, the worse you are hit the higher your testing requirements. Which is why the US is such a disaster with only 13 tests per confirmed case. The UK is about the same as places like Poland and France but 5 times worse than Ireland, much worse than other European countries such as Italy and not in the same universe as Australia and New Zealand.

Anecdotally tracing also seems to be hugely inadequate in the UK.

Deaths per capital are one of the least important statistics TBH as they are a very blunt tool.
 
F-Red said:
She needs to speak to her employer. This might help - https://www.acas.org.uk/coronavirus/vulnerable-people-and-high-risk
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Wolverine said:
Work should absolutely try and get her to continue working from home as much as possible
She could try contacting her occupational health department if there is one, speak to a union rep if possible prior to speaking to the line manager
Then there is also the Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service (ACAS) where she can get advice from on 0300 123 1100 or by visiting - https://www.acas.org.uk/ or even the HSE if work are being complete dicks but hopefully it won't come to that - https://www.hse.gov.uk/contact/concerns.htm

As per government guidelines - https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ng-extremely-vulnerable-persons-from-covid-19
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decorativeed said:
Lots of companies are going to make unreasonable requests like this, unfortunately, even when people have proven their ability to work successfully from home. My advice would be for her to join a relevant trade union for some support if needed.
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Thank you all, very helpful advice.
 
DoomSlayer said:
Thank you so much for the kind words. We couldn't even see him before he passed away as he lives on the other side of the country. I don't know how my father or my grandparents will ever deal with this. My dad was crying like a little child on the phone, it broke my heart. He already lost his whole livelihood due to this fecking virus, this is just not fair...
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So sad to hear of your loss. :(
 
FireballXL5 said:
Coronavirus: Spanish study casts doubt on herd immunity feasibility

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53315983
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Excuse me while I rant a little.

As a scientist, this type of bullshit sensationalization of research by mainstream media is both insulting and dangerous. Either this writer is willfully misrepresenting the papers conclusions or took no time to read past the abstract.

I took the 10 minutes to skim through the paper and let’s see if the authors conclusions match that f-ing headline:
Regarding incomplete ascertainment, only between 16% and 20% of symptomatic participants with antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 reported a previous PCR, and it was positive in around 75–79% of them. We are relying on participants' retrospectively self-reported symptoms, so a certain amount of misclassification cannot be ruled out. Still, these figures suggest that a substantial number of symptomatic patients with COVID-19 did not undergo PCR testing. However, the fact that only 15·3–19·3% of symptomatic participants had antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 suggests that a sizable proportion of suspected cases might have symptoms not caused by this coronavirus.
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Here the authors point out that the majority of their study participants, even the symptomatic ones, likely did not have SARS-CoV-2. But what about people with positive SARS-CoV-2 PCR tests?
Seroprevalence was close to 90% after 14 days since a positive PCR test, which is consistent with a recent study concluding that SARS-CoV-2 IgG antibodies are detected in more than 90% of infected people 2 weeks after symptom onset,
29and the recently reported 99% of antibody response among confirmed COVID-19 cases.
30
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Yep, that’s right. Over 90% of pcr confirmed subjects showed antibodies 14 days out from their positive test. Longer term studies are underway to like at how long antibody levels remain as that will be a better indicator of potential herd immunity.

When organizations like CNN, BBC, FOX, etc. take an articles data completely out of context it can cause confusion and fear in the public. This is wrong and evil in my opinion when it is done knowingly, and dangerous when done through incompetence.

TLDR: you need to be infected to make antibodies. And most mass media science writers have agendas or are incompetent. Likely both.
 
WI_Red said:
Excuse me while I rant a little.

As a scientist, this type of bullshit sensationalization of research by mainstream media is both insulting and dangerous. Either this writer is willfully misrepresenting the papers conclusions or took no time to read past the abstract.

I took the 10 minutes to skim through the paper and let’s see if the authors conclusions match that f-ing headline:

Here the authors point out that the majority of their study participants, even the symptomatic ones, likely did not have SARS-CoV-2. But what about people with positive SARS-CoV-2 PCR tests?

Yep, that’s right. Over 90% of pcr confirmed subjects showed antibodies 14 days out from their positive test. Longer term studies are underway to like at how long antibody levels remain as that will be a better indicator of potential herd immunity.

When organizations like CNN, BBC, FOX, etc. take an articles data completely out of context it can cause confusion and fear in the public. This is wrong and evil in my opinion when it is done knowingly, and dangerous when done through incompetence.

TLDR: you need to be infected to make antibodies. And most mass media science writers have agendas or are incompetent. Likely both.
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I think you’re being a little harsh. The headline/main thrust of this article is about the 5% seroprevalence. Which shows that herd immunity is a long way off. I agree with your critique of the antibody persistence findings but they don’t really get into that in the article.
 
Melbourne going into a 6 week stay at home restriction, cases up 191 in a day, which is the highest reported number since the pandemic began.
 
Back into lockdown for 6 weeks. Having watched from a far how the UK have dealt horrendously with the virus, Melbourne is now in a position that could turn out similar. I expect the UK to get a similar second wave given the scenes that have been happening around the country.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I think you’re being a little harsh. The headline/main thrust of this article is about the 5% seroprevalence. Which shows that herd immunity is a long way off. I agree with your critique of the antibody persistence findings but they don’t really get into that in the article.
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True, that was the thrust of the article, but look at the headline: “...Casts doubt of herd immunity feasibility”

It does no such thing. In fact it suggests the opposite, that 90%+ pcr positive subjects had antibody titers.

The study design, by its very nature, was always going to lead to a low seroprevalence number. I will be more concerned if that 90% number starts dropping precipitously as time passes and we begin to see large scale reinfection.

I do take your point about being a harsh, but the US is a bit of a science disinformation war zone right now and I am a getting fatigued.
 
SambaBoy said:
Back into lockdown for 6 weeks. Having watched from a far how the UK have dealt horrendously with the virus, Melbourne is now in a position that could turn out similar. I expect the UK to get a similar second wave given the scenes that have been happening around the country.
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Anything mentioned around the cause of the outbreak? Most media outlets are saying 'community' based, which doesn't help. Also, isn't it winter over there? Is that having some impact on an increase in cases?
 
F-Red said:
Anything mentioned around the cause of the outbreak? Most media outlets are saying 'community' based, which doesn't help. Also, isn't it winter over there? Is that having some impact on an increase in cases?
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The BLM matter protest probably didn't help, the streets were packed.

The PM has received criticism for the overseas travellers returning, most have spread through that, the security guards at the hotel were sleeping with some of the quarantine individuals. Some were allowed to go free before the 2 weeks.

Yeah it's winter but nothing has been mentioned about the weather having an impact.
 
Wibble said:
I don't know about other countries but testing figures in the UK are close to meaningless as they have no idea how many people have been tested. Some are tested multiple times and tests that have been posted out and not returned are counted as tests done.

And tests per capital are behind the US, Australia, NZ and Ireland and about the same as places like Germany. But, and a huge but, the worse you are hit the higher your testing requirements. Which is why the US is such a disaster with only 13 tests per confirmed case. The UK is about the same as places like Poland and France but 5 times worse than Ireland, much worse than other European countries such as Italy and not in the same universe as Australia and New Zealand.

Anecdotally tracing also seems to be hugely inadequate in the UK.

Deaths per capital are one of the least important statistics TBH as they are a very blunt tool.
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I don't think they're meaningless at all - and since the recent changes to reporting, they do publish numbers for tests sent out and tests processed separately in their daily release here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public

After a very slow start, I'd say the UK testing level is now around about where it needs to be.
 
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