SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Sparky Rhiwabon said:
That’s it shift the blame onto the people. They’ve had long enough to sort out a proper testing and tracing process whilst people were in lockdown, they can’t expect people to live like that indefinitely.
Click to expand...

Nah it's a pretty fair assessment tbh, people have become more relaxed about it all, the fear isn't there like it once was. People are at the point of rather taking the risk catching it and isolating, than stopping their lives for the foreseeable.

I can't think of anyone I know who is as strict with the rules as they were at the start, even the work place is a bit more relaxed, made masks mandatory, but now dgaf if we car share, take our normal breaks, held a charity day with food and cakes the other day.

Track and trace is horseshit anyway, it's been found even if it was implemented you've got that many people who wouldn't follow the advice.

People go on like track and trace working properly would eliminate this like it's some holy grail. It's not.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
That’s it shift the blame onto the people. They’ve had long enough to sort out a proper testing and tracing process whilst people were in lockdown, they can’t expect people to live like that indefinitely.
Click to expand...

Mainly because it's the peoples fault. What good does track and trace do if one ignores rules? For me, govts in the uk and eu have been clear what they want, just there isnt any cooperation.
 
Stanley Road said:
Mainly because it's the peoples fault. What good does track and trace do if one ignores rules? For me, govts in the uk and eu have been clear what they want, just there isnt any cooperation.
Click to expand...
The Government in the UK haven’t been clear about shit. They don’t even know their own rules.
 
acnumber9 said:
The Government in the UK haven’t been clear about shit. They don’t even know their own rules.
Click to expand...
I found them clear, it doesn't matter though, no-one is following them. Never understood bringing distance down from 2m to 1m, did it help?
 
Stanley Road said:
Mainly because it's the peoples fault. What good does track and trace do if one ignores rules? For me, govts in the uk and eu have been clear what they want, just there isnt any cooperation.
Click to expand...
The UK govt have certainly not been clear. The messaging has been terribly inconsistent.

"Eat out to help out" one month, 16 million people unable to meet family in their own back gardens a few days after that scheme ended.

"Go back to the office, it is your duty", for about 3 weeks then it is back to work from home if possible.

It is mixed messaging.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
The UK govt have certainly not been clear. The messaging has been terribly inconsistent.

"Eat out to help out" one month, 16 million people unable to meet family in their own back gardens a few days after that scheme ended.

"Go back to the office, it is your duty", for about 3 weeks then it is back to work from home if possible.

It is mixed messaging.
Click to expand...
But we can't have it both ways, back in March people were slating the govt for not reacting to the data as it comes, now they're doing exactly that it's "mixed messaging".
 
Dancfc said:
But we can't have it both ways, back in March people were slating the govt for not reacting to the data as it comes, now they're doing exactly that it's "mixed messaging".
Click to expand...

"Do as I say, not as I do" was not the most effective messaging strategy the government could've come up with.
 
Abizzz said:
For Australia, and any other country this successful at fighting it, it makes sense. It's a lot easier if the country is a continent and / or has no land borders though. I live within 150 miles of 8 different borders. The consequences to daily life aren't the same if those borders are all shut down for the tiniest of benefits. Now if one of those 9 countries had 0 (or anywhere close) community infections it would make sense, but they don't, and unless one wants to employ draconian methods they won't ever become 0 again. I don't agree that it helps flattening the curve in the same way mask wearing or social distancing does, those two have direct benefits.
Click to expand...

It doesn't really matter if it is a national, state border or even a line drawn in chalk if it is enforced. If you control infection moving between each cell you can vastly improve or even eradicate within a cell if you are lucky and good.

The cells can be opened up e.g. the whole od Australia barring Victoria and NZ will be open soon if we can keep.things under control. It is acgreatvtactic when combined with the others.

The primary reason that the redtrictions on the UK population didn't work that well was due to open borders with no quarantine (and the rest of the Boris shitshow).

NZ were good and AU were decent but lucky given how many daily flights we got from China and directly from Wuhan. Even if the UK for once decided EU law mattered and they couldn't close borders they could have enforced quarantine but didn't.
 
Last edited:
Stanley Road said:
Mainly because it's the peoples fault. What good does track and trace do if one ignores rules? For me, govts in the uk and eu have been clear what they want, just there isnt any cooperation.
Click to expand...

Surely it would help quite a lot :lol: having it working a few months ago would have been quite useful I reckon.
 
acnumber9 said:
I said it makes no difference when you can freely move around regions with a similar rate of infection as those countries.
Click to expand...

Quarantine prevents free movement. That is why it makes a difference.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
The UK govt have certainly not been clear. The messaging has been terribly inconsistent.

"Eat out to help out" one month, 16 million people unable to meet family in their own back gardens a few days after that scheme ended.

"Go back to the office, it is your duty", for about 3 weeks then it is back to work from home if possible.

It is mixed messaging.
Click to expand...

It’s not mixed messages. It’s changing messages. Not ideal but they have to react to the changing data on infections.

The eat out to help out stuff came at a time when many were getting over-optimistic about the second wave being smaller than the first.

Which was in no small part due to what really were mixed messages coming out of the medical community (i.e. eejits like Prof Sikora) that got traction in the press and will have increased the pressure on the govt to ease restrictions.
 
Wibble said:
Quarantine prevents free movement. That is why it makes a difference.
Click to expand...
And as has been pointed out by others it’s as effective as just quarantining any random person when the infection rate is already similar in the UK. It’s too late for it to make a worthwhile difference.
 
acnumber9 said:
And as has been pointed out by others it’s as effective as just quarantining any random person when the infection rate is already similar in the UK. It’s too late for it to make a worthwhile difference.
Click to expand...

Quarantine is designed to make sure the infection rate doesn't increase in an area, combined with other local methods (household mixing restrictions, social distancing etc). You seem to think that the impact of quarantine as a measure is designed as a tool to decrease the infection rate, it's a management tool.
 
F-Red said:
Quarantine is designed to make sure the infection rate doesn't increase in an area, combined with other local methods (household mixing restrictions, social distancing etc). You seem to think that the impact of quarantine as a measure is designed as a tool to decrease the infection rate, it's a management tool.
Click to expand...
Yes I know that. But as it is, somebody from a worse hit region in the UK can still enter those regions. And people within those badly hit regions are free to move. So it’s not really managing it.
 
acnumber9 said:
Yes I know that. But as it is, somebody from a worse hit region in the UK can still enter those regions. And people within those badly hit regions are free to move. So it’s not really managing it.
Click to expand...

That's only an issue if they have symptoms, and by that logic they should be self isolating.
 
acnumber9 said:
And surely the same can be said of quarantining people coming from other countries?
Click to expand...

As the incubation rate can be up to two weeks its not as easy to apply the same logic for someone just coming into the country. If the incubation rate was much shorter, I think there's a stronger argument for no quarantine.
 
acnumber9 said:
Yes I know that. But as it is, somebody from a worse hit region in the UK can still enter those regions. And people within those badly hit regions are free to move. So it’s not really managing it.
Click to expand...

So it isn't quarantine then.
 
Wibble said:
It doesn't really matter if it is a national, state border or even a line drawn in chalk if it is enforced. If you control infection moving between each cell you can vastly improve or even eradicate within a cell if you are lucky and good.

The cells can be opened up e.g. the whole od Australia barring Victoria and NZ will be open soon if we can keep.things under control. It is acgreatvtactic when combined with the others.

The primary reason that the redtrictions on the UK population didn't work that well was due to open borders with no quarantine (and the rest of the Boris shitshow).

NZ were good and AU were decent but lucky given how many daily flights we got from China and directly from Wuhan. Even if the UK for once decided EU law mattered and they couldn't close borders they could have enforced quarantine but didn't.
Click to expand...
I think we're pretty much saying the same thing by now. It makes sense if the infection rate of the destination is near 0, or if the infection rate of the source is vastly higher. The smaller the gap the smaller the uselfulness. I don't think it would have helped the UK much at all (save for an unbelievable early introduction with nearly no cases in the UK), the 100thousands who got infected were community transmissions, and to avoid the first transmissions into the country one would have needed a fortune teller. I hate Boris and the tories but the UK had some natural disadvantages, high density population, pub culture, very international, gutted NHS. Their actual failure came in the handling of the sick. But it wouldn't be hugely surprised if there's more people flying between China and the UK than between China and say NZ or AU, despite proximity (or used to, at least).

For a continental European country it makes almost no sense to quarantine with other continental countries at the moment, in my opinion, the costs vastly outweigh the slight benefits even for the country with a lower infection rate. By the same token one could just ask random people to quarantine for the same amount of time, it would have the same positive effect.
 
F-Red said:
As the incubation rate can be up to two weeks its not as easy to apply the same logic for someone just coming into the country. If the incubation rate was much shorter, I think there's a stronger argument for no quarantine.
Click to expand...
That makes no difference.
 
acnumber9 said:
Which is the point I’m making. We aren’t quarantining from areas just as badly hit in the UK. We’re going round in circles.
Click to expand...

That wasn't the point you wete making . You said quarantine makes no difference. Which it does. That was the point which you continually try to avoid. Just admit you were wrong and move in.

Or just move on.
 
Abizzz said:
I think we're pretty much saying the same thing by now. It makes sense if the infection rate of the destination is near 0, or if the infection rate of the source is vastly higher. The smaller the gap the smaller the uselfulness. I don't think it would have helped the UK much at all (save for an unbelievable early introduction with nearly no cases in the UK), the 100thousands who got infected were community transmissions, and to avoid the first transmissions into the country one would have needed a fortune teller. I hate Boris and the tories but the UK had some natural disadvantages, high density population, pub culture, very international, gutted NHS. Their actual failure came in the handling of the sick. But it wouldn't be hugely surprised if there's more people flying between China and the UK than between China and say NZ or AU, despite proximity (or used to, at least).

For a continental European country it makes almost no sense to quarantine with other continental countries at the moment, in my opinion, the costs vastly outweigh the slight benefits even for the country with a lower infection rate. By the same token one could just ask random people to quarantine for the same amount of time, it would have the same positive effect.
Click to expand...

This started from acnumber9 saying quarantine makes no difference. Which it obviously does.

If a government decides the economic benefits of ignoring the health benefits of a particular action is worth the sacrifice then that is a decision rhey will have to defend at the next election.
 
Wibble said:
That wasn't the point you wete making . You said quarantine makes no difference. Which it does. That was the point which you continually try to avoid. Just admit you were wrong and move in.

Or just move on.
Click to expand...
It makes next to no difference if community transmission is already rife and at a similar level to quarantine zones. You’ve provided no evidence to the contrary. I’m done with the debate. You can argue arrogantly with somebody else.
 
acnumber9 said:
It makes next to no difference if community transmission is already rife and at a similar level to quarantine zones. You’ve provided no evidence to the contrary. I’m done with the debate. You can argue arrogantly with somebody else.
Click to expand...

I don't need to as you are the only one making it up as you go along.

Quarantine is a vital tool that all of the succesful countries have used to great effect e.g. N.Z, Australia, Taiwan, so I have no idea why you want to pretend otherwise.
 
Wibble said:
I don't need to as you are the only one making it up as you go along.

Quarantine is a vital tool that all of the succesful countries have used to great effect e.g. N.Z, Australia, Taiwan, so I have no idea why you want to pretend otherwise.
Click to expand...
Because community infection wasn’t rife and they had local border lockdowns. That’s not the case in UK. Which is what I’ve said from the start.
 
acnumber9 said:
Because community infection wasn’t rife and they had local border lockdowns. That’s not the case in UK. Which is what I’ve said from the start.
Click to expand...

You said quarantine makes no difference. Which it does.
 
Wibble said:
I don't need to as you are the only one making it up as you go along.

Quarantine is a vital tool that all of the succesful countries have used to great effect e.g. N.Z, Australia, Taiwan, so I have no idea why you want to pretend otherwise.
Click to expand...

Whilst totally accepting that quarantining is a very effective tool I think it is absurd to attempt to transpose the Aussie experience to the U.K. For example the total number of visitor and resident moves into Australia during the period Jan to March 2020 was less than 3 million. The U.K. 21 million. You might as well try to compare apples and bananas. July figures for Australia both visitors and returnees is less than 5k. Easy to quarantine that number. Almost impossible when you have open borders as every EU country has experienced.
 
Wibble said:
You said quarantine makes no difference. Which it does.
Click to expand...
No difference within the circumstances I laid out. You can’t just cut the sentence short because it suits you and can’t accept being wrong.
 
Over 12,000 positive cases today, 49 deaths.

That's a +,5,000 increase over yesterday. Anyone know why the sudden jump?
 
@F-Red is slacking, nearly 13 k new uk cases today, almost doubling the previous record set on Tuesday.

Edit- damnit Dave.
 
Dave_MUFC said:
Over 12,000 positive cases today, 49 deaths.

That's a +,5,000 increase over yesterday. Anyone know why the sudden jump?
Click to expand...
On the independent it says

The government also said that totals reported “over the coming days” will be higher as a result of a technical issue which delayed the reporting cases from between 24 September and 1 October. However it is not clear how much this glitch has contributed to today’s figure

It was a bit of a shock reading 12, 000 though
 
Dave_MUFC said:
Over 12,000 positive cases today, 49 deaths.

That's a +,5,000 increase over yesterday. Anyone know why the sudden jump?
Click to expand...

Apparently a technical issue from 24th Sep to 1st Oct, so cases today and over the next few days will be much higher.

France posted just under 17k today and have been very high all week though.

Worrying for Italy is they did 2800k cases, Germany still just about keeping a lid on it.
 
jymufc20 said:
@F-Red is slacking, nearly 13 k new uk cases today, almost doubling the previous record set on Tuesday.

Edit- damnit Dave.
Click to expand...

I was checking at 4pm and there was no data, then headed out for the evening. Missed a good day for it as well!

From what I can see from the data, the breakdown of dates for today's case number is as follows:

38 from yesterday
3,654 Thurs (34%)
1,313 Wed (12%)
558 Tues (5%)
618 Mon
1,263 Sun
794 last Sat
550 last Fri
724 last Thurs
721 last Wed
153 last Tues
69 last Mon
257 last Sun
94 from before then

I would hazard a guess of about 5k additional on what would be a normal volume from the current time to return tests (some 2.5-3 days).
 
Got a family friend who is Chinese. She was a nurse in china. She’s telling us today that some of her old colleagues are saying that doctors & nurses in China are now starting to get vaccines
 
golden_blunder said:
Got a family friend who is Chinese. She was a nurse in china. She’s telling us today that some of her old colleagues are saying that doctors & nurses in China are now starting to get vaccines
Click to expand...

They’re using them as subjects in a trial. They’re getting a vaccine that hasn’t been fully tested/approved yet. Crazy really.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.