SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

No difference within the circumstances I laid out. You can’t just cut the sentence short because it suits you and can’t accept being wrong.

You said quarantine makes no difference.

It does no matter what the infection rate of the source country.

This is your whole quote.

Quarantining people coming from countries with similar infection levels to our own country couldn’t make any difference when people staying in the UK can still go to work etc.

Then you seemed to switch to saying it doesn't make any difference if there is free movement between these areas. That isn't how quarantine works.
 
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They’re using them as subjects in a trial. They’re getting a vaccine that hasn’t been fully tested/approved yet. Crazy really.

I think they are really confident in the vaccine. Their officials/ diplomats have been receiving it. They won't use it on their senior leadership if they aren't confident
 
On the subject of trials, I was invited to the Novavax one last week. They said the trial will take 13 months / be completed in October 2021. Obviously they can cut it short if they get exceptional results but it just serves as a reminder for what the current timelines are on vaccine development.
 
You said quarantine makes no difference.

It does no matter what the infection rate of the source country.

This is your whole quote.



Then you seemed to switch to saying it doesn't make any difference if there is free movement between these areas. That isn't how quarantine works.
I said no difference when going to work etc. I thought it was implied with the etc. And when I expanded my point you accused me of changing goalposts. You have a stick up your arse about this and can’t handle the fact you’re wrong.
 
I think they are really confident in the vaccine. Their officials/ diplomats have been receiving it. They won't use it on their senior leadership if they aren't confident

What I mean by crazy is the way they’re giving it to people based on their job. One of the biggest ethical no no’s in running clinical trials is to put any kind of pressure on trial subjects to take part. If they’re giving this vaccine to all of their healthcare workers that will put a lot of pressure on them. How do you say no when all your peers/work colleagues are taking one for the team? They already did something similar with their army, I think? The ethics of it is all very dubious.
 
What I mean by crazy is the way they’re giving it to people based on their job. One of the biggest ethical no no’s in running clinical trials is to put any kind of pressure on trial subjects to take part. If they’re giving this vaccine to all of their healthcare workers that will put a lot of pressure on them. How do you say no when all your peers/work colleagues are taking one for the team? They already did something similar with their army, I think? The ethics of it is all very dubious.
And China is usually so strict in their observance of ethical standards.
 
It was the Chinese giving the vaccine to their army 1st, and that was discussed ages ago already so they must have been pleased with the results of that effort.
The Russians were going to give it to their nurses and teachers 1st. They should have started with the politburo.
 
Oh ffs. The government has pretty much implemented every single NEPHET recommendation so far yeah? Holohan back in work one day and now this.
 
Not that surprising to me given the figures that were coming out of NI during the week (though I'm sure that's not the metric they use to decide these things).

There's going to be much less buy-in this time than the first time around. Even from normal people, let alone the type of clowns who were protesting on Grafton Street the other day.
 
Not that surprising to me given the figures that were coming out of NI during the week (though I'm sure that's not the metric they use to decide these things).

There's going to be much less buy-in this time than the first time around. Even from normal people, let alone the type of clowns who were protesting on Grafton Street the other day.

I’m not anticipating any clapping on the front step, that’s for damn sure. Devastating blow to small business owners. Feel so sorry for them.
 
I think they might push back on this one. At least for another couple of weeks. They must know how unpopular a decision it would be.



Wonder if NPHET are politically-minded enough to recommend level 5 knowing it will be rejected but in turn make level 4 more palatable.

Also not sure what I actually want to happen. Politicians following the experts' advice or making their own calls to the contrary.
 
Wonder if NPHET are politically-minded enough to recommend level 5 knowing it will be rejected but in turn make level 4 more palatable.

Also not sure what I actually want to happen. Politicians following the experts' advice or making their own calls to the contrary.
The political element is a necessity. The economy and other activities like education and healthcare are interconnected and the world can't stop turning. Particularly as compliance over the longterm (many more months as a minimum) will matter. Compliance needs cooperation.
 


Wonder if NPHET are politically-minded enough to recommend level 5 knowing it will be rejected but in turn make level 4 more palatable.

Also not sure what I actually want to happen. Politicians following the experts' advice or making their own calls to the contrary.


Yeah, I’m torn too. My faith in experts (in this specific context) has been eroded by the “zero covid” crew. It’s always felt like a completely unrealistic goal for any single EU country and pissed me off when they kept banging on about it. Plus total lockdown with schools still open feels like a total fudge. And I’m a parent, who desperately wants schools to stay open. I just think nobody knows the best way to navigate out of this. They’re all making it up as they go along.
 
Why is closing schools again seen as such a huge negative? It won’t really have a long term impact on children IMO. They are very adaptable. I get that it’s inconvenient for parents but if everything is going to be shut anyway then there shouldn’t be a hesitation.
 
Why is closing schools again seen as such a huge negative? It won’t really have a long term impact on children IMO. They are very adaptable. I get that it’s inconvenient for parents but if everything is going to be shut anyway then there shouldn’t be a hesitation.

Hmmm, is that true? I would have thought that young kids would be quite impacted by disrupted learning and not being able to see their friends. Especially those who are too young to really understand what's going on.

Given how many adults seem to struggle with lockdown, I would have thought children would also be impacted given they are less emotionally developed.
 
That vaccine story is just common sense really.

The data upload stuff is a bit mad. Uk figures will off the charts for a day or two. Absolutely crazy that recent surge in cases has been an underestimate!
Reliably informed that some of the Spurs goals today actually occurred in previous games and went unreported at the time... :wenger:
 
Hmmm, is that true? I would have thought that young kids would be quite impacted by disrupted learning and not being able to see their friends. Especially those who are too young to really understand what's going on.

Given how many adults seem to struggle with lockdown, I would have thought children would also be impacted given they are less emotionally developed.
I’m only speaking from my own experience as a guitar teacher who teaches a lot of kids online now from various backgrounds and they were all largely unaffected by the previous lockdown and loved being off school with more time to do stuff they enjoy while obviously still doing school work.
 
Public Health England provided a breakdown of how many cases were not included in each day’s figures, which are as follows:
957 cases were not included on September 25, when the original figure given was 6,874
744 on September 26, when the original figure given was 6,042
757 on September 27, when the original figure given was 5,693
none on September 28, when the original figure given was 4,044
1,415 on September 29, when the original figure given was 7,143
3,049 on September 30, when the original figure given was 7,108
4,133 on October 1, when the original figure given was 6,914
4,786 on October 2, when the original figure given was 6,968

Fecking hell.
 
Just the 22k today then.

So it would seem the last week of 7k a day was really about 10k
 
What's the chances that the cases added today and yesterday that were missed last week we're reported to the individuals as negative results ? If so that's a lot of people that haven't been self isolating (through no fault of their own)
 
I said no difference when going to work etc. I thought it was implied with the etc. And when I expanded my point you accused me of changing goalposts. You have a stick up your arse about this and can’t handle the fact you’re wrong.

What are you talking about? Quarantine involves preventing infected people from outside a border from moving in. By definition is has to make a difference no matter to what degree.

People going to work inside that border are completely irrelevant to how quarantine works. Quarantine and restricting/not restricting movement within a border are 2 different things even if both can help flatten the curve.

Either you don't understand what quarantine is or you just want to distract from your statement that quarantine doesn't work.

Quarantining people coming from countries with similar infection levels to our own country couldn’t make any difference when people staying in the UK can still go to work etc.

Quarantine prevents additional infections from being imported so lowers the infection rate inside the border because there are fewer infected people who would otherwise have gone on to infect others, who infect others etc. Restricting movement within a border lowers the Ro as do other measures like social distancing.

Quarantine helps stop things getting worse and protect any gains made. Active measures like movement restrictions and social distancing can give those gains. However, you need to apply a range of measures to really suceed. The UK lockdown wasn't a huge success largely because of the lack of border closures or even a quarantine.
 
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