SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Wibble said:
I'm not making a big deal out of it but unconsciously you were saying the last year or few years of life aren't worth much.
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... in comparison to having to live an entire 86 years of compromise and inconvenience, yes. let's be clear: this isn't about saying ones 86th year is rubbish because el oh el old people, it's saying the benefits of adding one extra year isn't better than having to live 85 years in an oppressed, inconvenienced state. which i know is a nonsensical thing to discuss but you're the one who lead us down this path.

Wibble said:
I'd always opt for a longer life, especially if the choice was the current inconvenience (for me) that almost certainly will be over or at least hugely improved in the next year or two.
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if we were talking about inconvenciences for a year, then that's a completely different argument, and one I would also be fine putting up with. but you've moved the goalposts here.
 
Just checked youtube to see if there was any update on the vaccine
saw this from 3 hrs ago.. the comments section is a joy.

 
Buster15 said:
Understood.
Which of the current measures is responsible for the low level of cases in the Cheltenham and Gloucester area?
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who knows exactly why but we’ve seen a clear increase in cases which have now started to come down again and are already at a low number so what sense does it make crippling these towns and cities where things are going in the right direction when support money is needed in other places much more?

for what it’s worth it makes no difference to me as my life in tier 3 currently would be more or less identical to what it is now
 
prateik said:
Just checked youtube to see if there was any update on the vaccine
saw this from 3 hrs ago.. the comments section is a joy.

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The stupid is very strong in those comments even by the usual deplorable standards of YouTube comments.
 
calodo2003 said:
And to procreate.
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Ive said it before and Ill say it again, being an adult and all of its associated privileges shouldnt be based on age, it should be based on bloody common sense. Finish school get your adult licence. Do something stupid like drink driving, sticking a grenade up your arse or agreeing with trump, believe the moon landings were faked or 9/11 was a hoax? points on your licence. Hit a certain amount of points and your adult licence is revoked and all of your decisions now have to be made by a responsible adult with a clean adult licence, cant find one then one will be provided for you.
 
There seems to be more and more people convinced that lockdowns and masks down work because we still have covid spreading. The other stupid argument being why even lockdown if when we open up again it comes back.

I can't tell if it's people being idiots or they just don't want restrictions and so they're wilfully showing bias.

It all feels a little bit like Brexit to be honest.
 
Smores said:
There seems to be more and more people convinced that lockdowns and masks down work because we still have covid spreading. The other stupid argument being why even lockdown if when we open up again it comes back.

I can't tell if it's people being idiots or they just don't want restrictions and so they're wilfully showing bias.

It all feels a little bit like Brexit to be honest.
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I think it's mostly that people hate the idea of another lockdown and so are trying to justify to themselves why it's a bad idea.

it's also difficult to convey a sense of how bad things would be if there wasn't another lockdown to these people given
A) deaths have been relatively low for such a supposedly brutal virus but that's pretty much because we locked down already
B) it largely only affects really old people and a lot of young people therefore couldn't give a flying feck
C) Err.. Sweden?

I'm a little pissed here in Ireland too, we are essentially locking down again because our useless health service didn't add any more ICU beds to their capacity in the last nine fecking months to deal with this much predicted second wave of the virus. Unfortunately we are all paying the price for their negligence. but.. HSE gon' HSE.
 
Smores said:
There seems to be more and more people convinced that lockdowns and masks down work because we still have covid spreading. The other stupid argument being why even lockdown if when we open up again it comes back.

I can't tell if it's people being idiots or they just don't want restrictions and so they're wilfully showing bias.

It all feels a little bit like Brexit to be honest.
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This! My colleague who is very political and loves brexit has just taken this approach, he previously seemed sensible about it but now has decided lockdown doesn’t work and wales should not be going into lockdown, I mean come on pal imagine how bad it would be if we just let it spread.
 
Sparky_Hughes said:
Ive said it before and Ill say it again, being an adult and all of its associated privileges shouldnt be based on age, it should be based on bloody common sense. Finish school get your adult licence. Do something stupid like drink driving, sticking a grenade up your arse or agreeing with trump, believe the moon landings were faked or 9/11 was a hoax? points on your licence. Hit a certain amount of points and your adult licence is revoked and all of your decisions now have to be made by a responsible adult with a clean adult licence, cant find one then one will be provided for you.
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All for it, if only to piss off conspiracy mongers about NWO even more. Let's even call it 'new world order' for the sake of it.
 
Wibble said:
What makes you think there will be no vaccine. It is looking more and more like when rather than if.
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A vaccine won't give us normal life e.g. 60k full football stadiums, no mask wearing on public transport and live music gigs/festivals which people all want to enjoy again eventually the day after the first jab though.

Hopefully 2021 won't be as grim as this year but the first half of it is still going to be under restrictions, saw interview with someone from Public Health England who said compulsory face masking would still be needed up to June/July which looks realistic. That would rule out the early summer festivals unless they just went to one day but already taken a hit financially.

Of course these now as seen as life luxuries but just thinking of numbers in normal times who attend football matches over one weekend and the number must be close to a million and you have 100k + attendances at likes of Reading and Leeds, Download and Glasto and there are another hundred smaller festivals.

That's what I'd class as a normal year. I see it as second half of 2021 to get the social scene properly up and running and then 2022 as "normal" providing everything goes to plan with the vaccine trials continuing.

Edit: Sorry @Wibble didn't see your reply below to a poster who asked that question. Pretty similar view to mine.
 
Sparky_Hughes said:
Ive said it before and Ill say it again, being an adult and all of its associated privileges shouldnt be based on age, it should be based on bloody common sense. Finish school get your adult licence. Do something stupid like drink driving, sticking a grenade up your arse or agreeing with trump, believe the moon landings were faked or 9/11 was a hoax? points on your licence. Hit a certain amount of points and your adult licence is revoked and all of your decisions now have to be made by a responsible adult with a clean adult licence, cant find one then one will be provided for you.
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Absolutely. Most everything in life is just a privilege, and all of those things can & should be revoked for glaring lapses of common sense.
 
Sarni said:
What happens in countries where 70% of people will refuse to get vaccines? Do you force them to, or limit their rights to travel abroad etc. if they don't have vaccine certificate?
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Blimey is Poland really that bad?! :lol: Think U.K was estimated at 30% of people who were reluctant to take a vaccine for whatever reason.
 
FootballHQ said:
A vaccine won't give us normal life e.g. 60k full football stadiums, no mask wearing on public transport and live music gigs/festivals which people all want to enjoy again eventually the day after the first jab though.

Hopefully 2021 won't be as grim as this year but the first half of it is still going to be under restrictions, saw interview with someone from Public Health England who said compulsory face masking would still be needed up to June/July which looks realistic. That would rule out the early summer festivals unless they just went to one day but already taken a hit financially.

Of course these now as seen as life luxuries but just thinking of numbers in normal times who attend football matches over one weekend and the number must be close to a million and you have 100k + attendances at likes of Reading and Leeds, Download and Glasto and there are another hundred smaller festivals.

That's what I'd class as a normal year. I see it as second half of 2021 to get the social scene properly up and running and then 2022 as "normal" providing everything goes to plan with the vaccine trials continuing.
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A vaccine, even if a really good one eventuates, won't return everywhere instantly back to pre-covid conditions but it will be a massive step in the right direction. We may need multiple vaccines, mononuclear antibody treatments and anti-virals to reduce it to endemic flu like status and that won't be overnight even if we can get enough people to take it.

And for context I was replying to the following post that was working on the assumption that there would be no vaccine, rather than suggesting it was a magic bullet that would fix everything by January.

Maticmaker said:
With no vaccine, at some point the focus will have to be on the vulnerable, they (includes me!) will have to be isolated completely
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Stack said:
I am skeptical that we will see a return to the freedom of travel and ease of movement we have been enjoying for the last 40 years. Airlines have been battered by this, the travel industry has been routed. Going forward portions of the former travelling population will be more conservative, travel insurance will be more complicated, all borders will open again but with a variety of restrictions. There will no doubt be discounted airfares for example to try and lure the travelling public back but those can only last for a short time before the reality of making air travel between countries viable. The cost of flying around the world I think will increase and with that there will be fewer people travelling. I just dont see a return to the normal we got used to.
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Think I last travelled abroad in mid 2017 was a mate's stag do so I imagine I'd be well down the list of users here who last travelled abroad. Seems a fair number still went abroad this summer for holidays looking at stories in press which I find mind boggling (none of the people I know did and most of them usually have 1-2 trips abroad a year). Going forward can certainly see more restictions and will be mainly business people and sports teams on long haul flights.

Think at this point I'd just be happy going to a pro football match in next 6 months, we'll see what government does once we get to March. Looking less likely festivals will get go ahead in the summer. When you go there and chat to people you realise for many that's their main holiday of the year.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Does seem like they’re missing a trick to not stick an extra week on the half term break.

I guess they’ve decided that the data shows schools are not a significant contributor and it’s in the interest of society to keep them open. They should be a bit more explicit about that second bit, mind you.

I actually think we need some sort of people’s forum. To decide what our priorities are going to be while we live with this fecking thing (as it looks like eradication is off the table). I’d like to see amateur sport a bit higher up the list of priorities than it is anyway. Not sure what the sacrificial lamb would be to allow this. Come down harder on companies insisting people still come to work in the office?
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I can understand Schools remaining open.

Universities are the ones I really can't understand. Mass outbreaks already and the students have only been there 2-3 weeks (while schools restarted early September) and those that aren't self isolating in their halls will be spilling out into the local bars and pubs in the evening as you do.

Surely they could've pushed back things until January and pushed the year into July for exams? I went a decade ago and way thinks worked out in my final year I only had one lecture a week on my course up to December. Vice Chancellors could've also taken a paycut considering some of the insane yearly figures they're on.

Universities restarting just seems a bit of a super spreader to me in some of the places hit up North but could be wrong.
 
Berbasbullet said:
This! My colleague who is very political and loves brexit has just taken this approach, he previously seemed sensible about it but now has decided lockdown doesn’t work and wales should not be going into lockdown, I mean come on pal imagine how bad it would be if we just let it spread.
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I mean i can understand the arguments on the detail, for instance Regional versus national and on the extent/timing of lockdown. I just can't fathom how it's evolved into the simple 'lockdowns don't work', who told them lockdown would eliminate the virus?

I think they mean 'lockdowns don't work for me'
 
Smores said:
I mean i can understand the arguments on the detail, for instance Regional versus national and on the extent/timing of lockdown. I just can't fathom how it's evolved into the simple 'lockdowns don't work', who told them lockdown would eliminate the virus?

I think they mean 'lockdowns don't work for me'
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Oh absolutely you can debate the intricacies for sure! But when someone says they don’t work then they can get in the sea.
 
prateik said:
Just checked youtube to see if there was any update on the vaccine
saw this from 3 hrs ago.. the comments section is a joy.

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Many leading makers are set to release more data on October 22nd. Fingers crossed. Hoping most of the world gets vaccinated within the first half of 2021.
 
Suv666 said:
Many leading makers are set to release more data on October 22nd. Fingers crossed. Hoping most of the world gets vaccinated within the first half of 2021.
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That is definitely not going to happen..
 
Sparky_Hughes said:
Ive said it before and Ill say it again, being an adult and all of its associated privileges shouldnt be based on age, it should be based on bloody common sense. Finish school get your adult licence. Do something stupid like drink driving, sticking a grenade up your arse or agreeing with trump, believe the moon landings were faked or 9/11 was a hoax? points on your licence. Hit a certain amount of points and your adult licence is revoked and all of your decisions now have to be made by a responsible adult with a clean adult licence, cant find one then one will be provided for you.
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add to that things like getting vaccines on your licence. If a dog needs a vaccine passport to travel. So should we
 
Suv666 said:
Many leading makers are set to release more data on October 22nd. Fingers crossed. Hoping most of the world gets vaccinated within the first half of 2021.
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Um...

EDIT: Assuming every single thing goes right, at current manufacturing capacities it's looking to be around one billion vaccinated by the end of 2021. (That's not counting whatever China will be doing and fudging their numbers with) Again, that's assuming no mass anti vax, no ruined batches, no bad batches that cause fear and pushback, etc etc etc.

To be fair, there's also no reason not to hope that every single thing will go right.
 
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prateik said:
That is definitely not going to happen..
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hungrywing said:
Um...

EDIT: Assuming every single thing goes right, at current manufacturing capacities it's looking to be around one billion vaccinated by the end of 2021. (That's not counting whatever China will be doing and fudging their numbers with) Again, that's assuming no mass anti vax, no ruined batches, no bad batches that cause fear and pushback, etc etc etc.

To be fair, there's also no reason not to hope that every single thing will go right.
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Mass vaccination of the entire population of the planet might never happen. What I’m hoping for in 2021 (assuming the best case scenario comes true re vaccine development) is that the most vulnerable (elderly/HCWs) get vaccinated in most countries. That would be a huge achievement and a big step towards getting back to normal. We’d need to get over the (borderline irrational) fear around “long covid”, mind you.
 
Snowjoe said:
who knows exactly why but we’ve seen a clear increase in cases which have now started to come down again and are already at a low number so what sense does it make crippling these towns and cities where things are going in the right direction when support money is needed in other places much more?

for what it’s worth it makes no difference to me as my life in tier 3 currently would be more or less identical to what it is now
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Thank you.
The reason I ask is not to be awkward. But I live not that far down the road in Bristol. And we have 2 huge Universities.
The behaviour of the public in general seems not to strictly adhere to social distancing or face coverings.
But although the cases are rising, Bristol and the West Country in general are well below many of the major cities.
And although there are certain areas typical if inner cities, you do begin to wonder if living standards are a major factor.
 
prateik said:
That is definitely not going to happen..
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Depends on the number of the vaccines that will be ready. There are what like 4-5 on Phase 3?
Even if Oxford, Moderna and Pfzier are ready by the first half, surely we can vaccinate loads. Maybe I'm being too optimistic.

Besides by the end of 2021 the amount of people infected plus a percent of population vaccinated should slow down the virus drastically right?
 
Suv666 said:
Depends on the number of the vaccines that will be ready. There are what like 4-5 on Phase 3?
Even if Oxford, Moderna and Pfzier are ready by the first half, surely we can vaccinate loads. Maybe I'm being too optimistic.

Besides by the end of 2021 the amount of people infected plus a percent of population vaccinated should slow down the virus drastically right?
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I would say yes, definitely. Even without a vaccine. The virus is here to stay (barring a miracle) but should pose much less of a threat by the end of next year.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I would say yes, definitely. Even without a vaccine. The virus is here to stay (barring a miracle) but should pose much less of a threat by the end of next year.
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What’s your reasoning for this? Better therapeutic treatments? A level of herd immunity? Virus mutating into something less deadly?
 
Buster15 said:
Thank you.
The reason I ask is not to be awkward. But I live not that far down the road in Bristol. And we have 2 huge Universities.
The behaviour of the public in general seems not to strictly adhere to social distancing or face coverings.
But although the cases are rising, Bristol and the West Country in general are well below many of the major cities.
And although there are certain areas typical if inner cities, you do begin to wonder if living standards are a major factor.
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I can only speak for my area in the West Country (just) but adherence to social distancing and mask use is generally very good compared to what I’ve seen elsewhere. The pubs have also been very good enforcing the rules they should be and I think people in general have also been quite responsible. But also could be a element of luck too who knows

However I think we have to be honest in places like Cheltenham and realise we are very affluent compared to a lot of places and there’s a lot of white collar workers who have been able to just go home to work and stay there and many families are able to have parents at home to keep kids off school if they show symptoms.

I was surprised at Bristol given the size of UWE & UoB that the cases aren’t much worse than they are, especially with so many trust fund hippies in Stokes Croft who probably believe they can cure Covid with crystals :lol: Although like you say as much as there are typical inner city areas in Bristol the standard of living seemed to be fairly high when I was there.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Because everyone finally wears a mask?
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:lol: Sure. Even today at pickup time, quite a few without masks despite it now being level 5. Not only that, they swarm together when the gates open for kids to cone out.

to quote the IT crowd “people. What a bunch of bastards”
 
Sparky_Hughes said:
Ive said it before and Ill say it again, being an adult and all of its associated privileges shouldnt be based on age, it should be based on bloody common sense. Finish school get your adult licence. Do something stupid like drink driving, sticking a grenade up your arse or agreeing with trump, believe the moon landings were faked or 9/11 was a hoax? points on your licence. Hit a certain amount of points and your adult licence is revoked and all of your decisions now have to be made by a responsible adult with a clean adult licence, cant find one then one will be provided for you.
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Bloody great idea.
 
So have we reached the point in England where it all goes downhill today.

If as expected the Government will enforce tier 3 upon Greater Manchester with no deal on funding so its more then likely going to be less just out of spite (yes this government is that tit for tat)

The public support in Manchester is clearly against the government, i'm expecting a significant amount of people to straight up ignore the restrictions, put that along with the fight for Gyms in Liverpool and it paints a grim picture for the public following the governments guidelines.

does it all unravel from here or do we just quickly jump to the national lockdown again which seems to be on the horizon just doing it region by region in a long way round.

I live on the very border of Greater Manchester 5 mins up the road from me all hospitality will shut, but our village will be fine as Cheshire East the whole thing is a giant mess.
 
More encouraging data re schools.

The city health department began a random testing regimen in the school system last week, with 15,111 staff and students tested so far. Results have come in for 10,676 of those tests, with just 13 staff and five students testing positive for coronavirus.
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