Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)

Super Hans said:
I think you’re wrong. For many on the left, Corbyn is probably the only politician they’ve ever really liked and respected. The real deal. If Corbyn isn’t reinstated, like, now, many of them will never forgive Starmer and he can forget about ever becoming PM.
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I'm skeptical about this, firstly I'm not sure the numbers are big enough (people who love Corbyn and are willing to not vote Labour, might be a few but not that many) and secondly because so far there seems to be no organisation behind this.
Right now the Westminster numbers look like they did for Corbyn-May after the 2017 election i.e. a reasonable chance at forming the new govt if an election is held.
 
balaks said:
Well that's down to personal opinion but Labour has always been a democratic socialist party, Corbyn is much farther to the left than that.
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Labour has not always been a democratic socialist party, nor is Corbyn further to the left than that. On what basis do you make both claims, be interested to see how you’ve come to this conclusion?
 
balaks said:
Well that's down to personal opinion but Labour has always been a democratic socialist party, Corbyn is much farther to the left than that.
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Corbyn wouldn't have been to the left of even the parliamentary Labour party until the early 90s. This just isn't true historically.
 
Fingeredmouse said:
Corbyn wouldn't have been to the left of even the parliamentary Labour party until the early 90s. This just isn't true historically.
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He's a Bennite, that was on the leftward edges of the PLP long before the 90s.
 
Whatever his politics, he’s been rightly outed as an appalling leader. Yesterday showed us that, if we didn’t know already. He took it as a personal attack. Whereas all he needed to do was take some responsibility for his leadership failure. He a back bencher out of his depth. He’s a great back bencher, but a leader he is not.
 
Ubik said:
He's a Bennite, that was on the leftward edges of the PLP long before the 90s.
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By the late 80s arguably and certainly by the time he stood against Kinnock but I would say long before the 90s is hyperbole. He certainly wasn't to the left of Foot.
 
Fingeredmouse said:
By the late 80s arguably and certainly by the time he stood against Kinnock but I would say long before the 90s is hyperbole. He certainly wasn't to the left of Foot.
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This is a solid decade out, his transformation from the mainstream to the left was in the 70s, to the extent that Foot put himself forward as the unity candidate against Benn's rebellion among the CLPs. The Healey deputy leadership win against him in 81 was seen as pivotal for that reason.
 
Ubik said:
This is a solid decade out, his transformation from the mainstream to the left was in the 70s, to the extent that Foot put himself forward as the unity candidate against Benn's rebellion among the CLPs. The Healey deputy leadership win against him in 81 was seen as pivotal for that reason.
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Aye, this is true.
 
I voted for Corbyn's Labour on both occasions. If I had my way he would be our Prime Minister now and leading the response to the Coronavirus pandemic which I doubt can be any worse than what Johnson is doing.

Ultimately though he had two bites at the cherry. He couldn't get it done. There's an alternate universe out there whereby the UK voted to remain in the EU in 2016 and as a result this year, 2020, would have been Corbyn's opportunity to lead Labour into a General Election. I believe in such a timeline he would be in office now because without Brexit the bread and butter issues of politics which he believes in and articulates such as anti-austerity, addressing economic inequality, investment in public services and infrastructure would have been at the forefront rather than non-stop debates over Westminster vs Brussels, Deal or No Deal, Second referendums etc.

I don't think he is a bad man. I wouldn't have voted for him if I felt that way. A lot of his policy stances I like. He got the leadership role in 2015 when nobody saw the event of Brexit coming. He got the job because he offered something different. But as time went on you can see his stubbornness and sanctimony made him incapable as a leader. This should be a lesson that next time don't pick someone who sat on the back benches for 30 years rebelling against the opposition side and your own side to get propelled to the center of the front bench. It's noble to be an activist grassroots MP but you can't be in charge of an entire party of different factions like that. To be honest I feel quite sympathetic for him. These past five years brought him greater worldwide attention than he could have ever dreamed of in the past thirty as a MP. But was it worth it? Under his leadership he had to confront three Tory PMs, lose the referendum when a majority of the party's members wanted to remain (and those who wanted to leave defected splitting the party), lose two general elections - the last of which saw the party do worse than under Michael Foot, and have the scandal of antisemitism hover in the party. What a legacy to leave behind.

I've been a big fan of Dennis Skinner for years but the biggest reason he became a beloved figure among the public is precisely the fact that for a nearly fifty year career he was kept away from holding any position of leadership that would have required him to be accountable for people other than himself.
 
esmufc07 said:
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Jewish leaders not impressed, particularly by the timing, with the NEC panel meeting this arvo.

Marie van der Zyl, president of the Board of Deputies of British Jews, said Labour should reject Mr Corbyn’s “non-apology”.

“If the party wants to show it is serious about tackling anti-Jewish racism, it will consign this statement, just like the culture that led to the EHRC’s damning findings, to the dustbin of history,” she said. “To do otherwise would be a failure of leadership that would risk the party slipping backwards.”

Gideon Falter, chief executive of Campaign Against Antisemitism, which was one of the complainants to the EHRC, said Mr Corbyn was attempting to “recast his comments gaslighting the Jewish community”.
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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...tisemitism-concerns-not-exaggerated-d6x3zdn0l
 
There's some irony in the claim that Corbyn's initial statement amounted to 'gaslighting the Jewish community'.

Gaslighting is an attempt by A to undermine B's perception of events to make them feel insecure and manipulate them. Creating the false impression that the bulk of the Labour membership were antisemites and that a Corbyn-led government would be a risk to Jews, in order to use the Jewish community's anxiety and fear as a stick to beat Corbyn and the left with falls far more comfortably into any description of gaslighting than anything in Corbyn's statement did.
 
Ubik said:
What a waste of everyone's time, with absolutely no-one coming out looking good.
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A chain of events that were never going to happen any other way. The media loved the drama and so Starmer had to interfere to get a quick suspension, ultimately Corbyn didn't do anything wrong so he's reinstated.

It was a trade off to deescalate on the day hoping they'll be less fuss later.
 
Starmer helping the labour right take over the party

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Ubik said:
What a waste of everyone's time, with absolutely no-one coming out looking good.
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This, completely baffled.

I never wanted him expelled, but would have expected Starmer to own it if he was insisting on winning back the centrists and 'anyone-but-Corbyn' crowd at the expense of the party left. But now he's just ceremoniously pissed off everyone, not to mention given the Tories and media plenty of ammunition. Bizarre leadership.
 
Kaos said:
This, completely baffled.

I never wanted him expelled, but would have expected Starmer to own it if he was insisting on winning back the centrists and 'anyone-but-Corbyn' crowd at the expense of the party left. But now he's just ceremoniously pissed off everyone, not to mention given the Tories and media plenty of ammunition. Bizarre leadership.
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The whole point is that its not the leader who decides!

The amount of people I've seen make this argument and suddenly i understand why they think the leader is responsible for every complaint raised.
 
Smores said:
The whole point is that its not the leader who decides!

The amount of people I've seen make this argument and suddenly i understand why they think the leader is responsible for every complaint raised.
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You're telling me he had no sway in the NEC panel tasked with hearing the appeal?
 
Kaos said:
You're telling me he had no sway in the NEC panel tasked with hearing the appeal?
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No I'm not saying that because it would be ignorant of reality. I'm saying he shouldn't have any according to the EHRC which is supposed to be fully implemented.
 
Reinstated but not reinstated? Requires additional snappy thread title clarification change
Fluctuation0161 said:
Rightly so.

No doubt we can now have another snappy thread title change.
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perhaps another change taking into account Starmer now isnt letting him back into the PLP


The Labour MP Neil Coyle, who has been an outspoken critic of Corbyn’s approach to antisemitism under his leadership, said the case must be looked at by the independent process that Starmer has said he will set up under the EHRC recommendations.

“Keir is trying to deliver on his self-confessed first priority as Labour leader – to rebuild trust with the Jewish community,” he said. “The whip cannot be restored until the new, genuinely independent complaints process assesses this case and ensures a fair decision is made. This is also the legal requirement under the EHRC report; the Labour party has to do this in order to avoid further inquiry. So it is the morally right thing to do as well as the only option available.”
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https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-labour-whip-despite-having-suspension-lifted
 
Maybe it's time for the UK to have a party with the real ordinary people in mind and not the toffs.
 
Foxbatt said:
Maybe it's time for the UK to have a party with the real ordinary people in mind and not the toffs.
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didnt farage launch that last week
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the anti vaxer, anti eu, anti masker pro pint in the pub party ... reforming the UK political system for the many not the jew... (oops that was corbyn)... sorry reforming the UK political system for the ordinary people not the political elite / toffs allegedly
 
sun_tzu said:
didnt farage launch that last week
%2Fmethode%2Ftimes%2Fprod%2Fweb%2Fbin%2Fc0141e3c-37ad-11ea-9e00-2e9f417bebfa.jpg

the anti vaxer, anti eu, anti masker pro pint in the pub party ... reforming the UK political system for the many not the jew... (oops that was corbyn)... sorry reforming the UK political system for the ordinary people not the political elite / toffs allegedly
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They certainly are not for everyone.
 
sun_tzu said:
yes - (or at least according to the bits "sources close to" formby released)
But nothing should be held back from the EHRC and ANYBODY found to have acted inappropriately should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law IMO

Starmer needs to get rid of all of them ASAP - they clearly have the info available internally - the purge should start today and I repeat ANYBODY who engaged in racist behavior should be gone woth the dossier given to the EHRC and the police

If starmer does not demand it goes to the EHRC and does not act on the info ASAP then he should go as well - zero racists in the party and zero tolerance for them should be the minimum we can expect
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Hi sun, will we be seeing you over in the Starmer thread calling for his expulsion? He didn't demand the internal report went to the EHRC and hasn't taken any actions against those it evidenced frustrating the process.
 
I swear they over complicate this shit.

“Jeremy is a key member of the Labour Party and his record speaks for itself. The party disagrees with some of his positions but welcomes his views, always”

‘Party Line’ is so fcuking stupid.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
I swear they over complicate this shit.

“Jeremy is a key member of the Labour Party and his record speaks for itself. The party disagrees with some of his positions but welcomes his views, always”

‘Party Line’ is so fcuking stupid.
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Probably would have been better to set up the independent complaints process the EHRC demanded and let them deal with this issue
 
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