Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[MikeUpNorth]

I started reading and ending up reading anoter 30 odd pages and still didn't get there. But basically it's down to arbitration but there's a degree of trust between the EU and Japan.
Clearly Boris evaporated any trust with the IMB and I personally wouldn't trust Boris to walk my dog, and I don't even have a dog.

No, it's not arbitration as it's all completely non-binding.

A Free Trade Agreement that builds on the CETA and JEFTA models
CETA and JEFTA are two comprehensive FTAs that the EU has agreed with third countries (Canada and Japan respectively) in the past two years. They serve as a model for the kind of trade deals the EU is willing to sign with ‘third countries’ – countries which are not in the Single Market or in the EU. Both these deals fall far short of Single Market participation or shared customs arrangements, but nonetheless they are still more comprehensive than older trade agreements in the commitments expected of countries that are a party to them, both in terms of coverage (the number of policy areas that are impacted), and the level of liberalisation required (the number of sectors that will be opened to competition from the other party).

CETA is one of the first deals to include a specific chapter on Regulatory Cooperation, modelled on the Regulatory Cooperation chapter that was proposed for the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP – a deal between the EU and the US, abandoned in 2018). The chapter sets out a process of dialogue between Canada and the EU to address regulatory barriers to trade, most of which takes place through a Regulatory Cooperation Forum. This brings together ‘trade experts’ and political leaders from both sides, with, as legal professor Marija Bartl explains, the aim of “creating institutional channels for the exchange of information, methodologies and knowledge between regulators and stakeholders... (so that) their ‘thinking’ would align, thus minimizing the numbers of divergent regulations.”

The FTAs currently in place that include Regulatory Cooperation processes (e.g. CETA and JEFTA) do not specify who should be invited to participate in these forums. However, because the main focus of Regulatory Cooperation is on removing barriers to trade, commentators have suggested that these forums are likely to be dominated by business interests. Civil society groups have argued that unless the treaty explicitly states that trade unions and other civil society groups must also be invited, the majority of the input will come from corporations. While the recommendations resulting from the Regulatory Cooperation processes are non-binding, they set in motion a method for addressing barriers to trade which departs significantly from the normal democratic process that sets regulations outside of trade agreements. Regulations are ordinarily designed with social, public health or environmental objectives in mind, even in trade blocs such as the EU’s Single Market. In the CETA model, the objective of the Regulatory Cooperation Forum is to facilitate trade rather than regulate in the public interest.

https://www.tjm.org.uk/documents/br...t-and-Regulatory-Cooperation-after-Brexit.pdf

This report is worth reading in full at some point for a general understanding of the ways international trade interacts with domestic regulations and the trade-offs involved.

 

[Buster15]

They will continue to do business with each other, just that everything becomes more complicated and expensive. The Uk will still sell its fish to the EU, the EU will still want the fish in UK's waters.
The UK will still have its sovereignty that it had in 1962 2002 and in 2022.

There have been a couple of classic examples in the last week or so.
The UK claiming it could approve the vaccine quicker because it had left the EU- only in name only they're still following the same EU rules until the end of this year. Latvia could have done the same.

Davis announcing that he could buy NZ wine instead of French when NZ's second biggest export to the UK already is wine and no.1 is lamb while it has been in the EU.
Brexiters have given the impression that the UK don't sell to or buy from other countries outside the EU and suddenly they can, this is one of the biggest lies swallowed by Brexiteers.
Liz Truss announcing she can sell stilton, cornish pasties and haggis to Japan tariff free - whoopee , nobody in Japan wants to buy it.

Very few people in the EU even care about Brexit any more, it's rarely in the news. The only thing about the UK we've seen this week is the old lady who was given the first vaccination.

The EU want to ensure that the UK don't benefit unfairly from leaving.

And most people I know cringe at the utterly stupid comments made by people who really should know better.
Just to mention that in my working life, I had the absolute pleasure and privilege of working with excellent engineers (jet engine) from Germany, Italy, France, Sweden and Spain. And in my experience, I had nothing but admiration for them and still keep in contact with many. I am I very firm believer in the concept of working together on an equal basis to achieve a common objective.
Brexit is 180 degrees opposed to this.

 

[Jippy]

For you and I and other EU residents that means a compulsory 2 week quarantine


I'm in the UK and keep hearing how the EU needs a deal as much as we do and it's this big moment in European history. Seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding there. The EU no longer has any need to make any sacrifices. A deal is better than no deal, but newspapers make no mention of it and it's not a vote winner or loser anymore.

Not sure where you are seeing that tbh. The main thrust of public statements and media coverage for a bit now has been the 'don't back down on sovereignty' line.
I've not seen the 'it'll hurt them more than us' guff being trotted out for a while. That was wearing thin, so rely on emotional nationalism to blindside people.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

No, it's not arbitration as it's all completely non-binding.


https://www.tjm.org.uk/documents/br...t-and-Regulatory-Cooperation-after-Brexit.pdf

This report is worth reading in full at some point for a general understanding of the ways international trade interacts with domestic regulations and the trade-offs involved.

It starts with Regulatory Co-operation and then proceeds throughout many steps , discussions, fora, etc but if the process continues on and on without solution it goes to arbitration and legal process if necessary.
I spent over thirty years dealing with International Trade but not dealing with actual FTA's between countries on a national level but knew the international and local laws covering the products that I dealt with inside and out for the countries and of the products that were exported including countries where there were no FTAs in place.

Just tired of reading stuff which I did for so many years.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

And most people I know cringe at the utterly stupid comments made by people who really should know better.
Just to mention that in my working life, I had the absolute pleasure and privilege of working with excellent engineers (jet engine) from Germany, Italy, France, Sweden and Spain. And in my experience, I had nothing but admiration for them and still keep in contact with many. I am I very firm believer in the concept of working together on an equal basis to achieve a common objective.
Brexit is 180 degrees opposed to this.

Quite agree, this will bring no benefit to anyone.

One thing I would like to see in the not too distant future is that scum like Farage and his acolytes are finally found out and get their just desserts for causing so much damage to the UK.

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Anybody in the UK still think an Australian style deal means anything other than no-deal.
Perhaps Boris is trying to get people used to the idea that everything will take at least three months to reach the UK rather than the next day.

 

[JPRouve]

Australian-style option.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Australian-style option.

Yeaaaah the Australian style option so amazing that Australia don’t even want it.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Obviously he’s talking out his arse but what does he mean by Australian vs Canadian options?

 

[MikeUpNorth]

Obviously he’s talking out his arse but what does he mean by Australian vs Canadian options?

Free-trade agreement (Canada) vs default WTO terms (Australia).

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Obviously he’s talking out his arse but what does he mean by Australian vs Canadian options?

Canada FTA v Australia no agreement. At present his only option is "Australia"

 

[JPRouve]

Obviously he’s talking out his arse but what does he mean by Australian vs Canadian options?

He means and I'm not joking, "I'm going to bamboozle these fools."

Now if you want to know what each options are, the Aussie option is a trade negotiation that started in 2018 and the other is CETA, both includes borders and custom checks.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Ok, right. That’s catastrophic. Fecking cretin.

 

[africanspur]

He is such a fecking cretin. I can't tell if he's doing it to try to simplify things for the population or to try to imply that both countries are totally OK and so why shouldn't we be?

Kind of ignores the fact that neither country have 'Australia' or 'Canada' style agreements with their neighbours.

Perhaps he could call it the 'Venezuela' option?

 

[africanspur]

Were 'the leave alliance' a big player in leave politics? I can't distinguish between them anymore.

I've come across their website today and it doesn't seem to have been updated for at least a year. Interesting insight into (a subset) of the Brexit mind.

They seem genuinely terrified of a no deal option (as they should be) but seemingly can't help but blame it still, at least partly, on the EU and remainers.

http://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=269

http://leavehq.com/

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

Wasn't it Boris Johnson who said last year that the chances of a no deal were "million to one”

 

[Buster15]

Free-trade agreement (Canada) vs default WTO terms (Australia).

Still trying to deceive the country by pretending that his completely incompetent handling of the whole Brexit process is actually some kind of victory.
I can't describe how livid I am.
He is happy to trash the UK economy and all that represents simply for a philosophical (taking back control) argument.

 

[golden_blunder]

Wasn't it Boris Johnson who said last year that the chances of a no deal were "million to one”

Oven ready.

must be still in the freezer

 

[Buster15]

Wasn't it Boris Johnson who said last year that the chances of a no deal were "million to one”

I can imagine him singing to the tune of War of the Worlds - the chances of not getting a trade deal are a million to one, but still there's none...
And his Cabinet Brexiteer supporters clapping like the demented idiots they are.

 

[golden_blunder]

I can imagine him singing to the tune of War of the Worlds - the chances of not getting a trade deal are a million to one, but still there's none...
And his Cabinet Brexiteer supporters clapping like the demented idiots they are.

They’ve become a nation of clappers.
well I hope clapping puts the food on the table come the time when the economy starts seriously tanking next year

 

[Buster15]

They’ve become a nation of clappers.
well I hope clapping puts the food on the table come the time when the economy starts seriously tanking next year

That is the problem.
The poor and vulnerable will always be hit the hardest. Even though many will have voted to leave.

 

[horsechoker]

I can imagine him singing to the tune of War of the Worlds - the chances of not getting a trade deal are a million to one, but still there's none...
And his Cabinet Brexiteer supporters clapping like the demented idiots they are.

But we all knew this was coming.

Oh well, there's always next year when the country's on it's knees.

 

[Buster15]

But we all knew this was coming.

Oh well, there's always next year when the country's on it's knees.

The UK may possibly have coped with either Brexit or the pandemic. But both of them at the same time is going to be catastrophic.

 

[horsechoker]

The UK may possibly have coped with either Brexit or the pandemic. But both of them at the same time is going to be catastrophic.

Exactly, but the pandemic provides a convenient cover for Brexit.

"can't do this? oh it's the pandemic, not Brexit"

Supporters will grit their teeth and keep on waving their flags, I think they'll have to suffer a lot before the concede the Brexit was a bad idea.

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

Oven ready.

must be still in the freezer

fecking shameless. Indulged by certain sections of our media.
Spouts off lies, and there is little accountability

 

[Buster15]

Exactly, but the pandemic provides a convenient cover for Brexit.

"can't do this? oh it's the pandemic, not Brexit"

Supporters will grit their teeth and keep on waving their flags, I think they'll have to suffer a lot before the concede the Brexit was a bad idea.

Have to agree with you. The pandemic will give them a short term excuse which they will use to the full. But longer term...
They have been warned.

 

[JPRouve]

I find this kind tweets interesting because I assume that for many people it somehow makes sense, it takes more than a month to ship something port to port from the UK to Australia.

 

[golden_blunder]

fecking shameless. Indulged by certain sections of our media.
Spouts off lies, and there is little accountability

It’s the accountability that does my head in the most. Why aren’t politicians held to account for anything? They can literally lie and millions lap it up. I can’t fathom it

 

[TheGame]

So we've gone from 'oven 'ready' lies before the election to 'Australia style' lies now and the dimwits in the country will just believe it. I think this post nails it when describing the 'Australia style' deal:

 

[horsechoker]

The Guardian view on Boris Johnson in Brussels: not to be trusted

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...n-boris-johnson-in-brussels-not-to-be-trusted

A good read, it's basically this thread summed up

 

[TheGame]

It’s the accountability that does my head in the most. Why aren’t politicians held to account for anything? They can literally lie and millions lap it up. I can’t fathom it

Its pathetic, its not hard to even ask the most basic of questions and do fecking research to show they are lying. Trumpian politics at their best.

 

[golden_blunder]

Its pathetic, its not hard to even ask the most basic of questions and do fecking research to show they are lying. Trumpian politics at their best.

I really hate the era of politics that we have gone through the last 5 years or so. Any feckin liar can rise to power

 

[TheGame]

I really hate the era of politics that we have gone through the last 5 years or so. Any feckin liar can rise to power

You and me both mate! Previously having an affair used to be a resignation certainty, now you can shag, lie, bully, fraud and do basically anything you want and nobody gives a feck. Worst thing is we haven't got an election for years yet so we are stuck with these idiots.

 

[4bars]

I find this kind tweets interesting because I assume that for many people it somehow makes sense, it takes more than a month to ship something port to port from the UK to Australia.

Specially when it's a lie. In november was signed the RCEP trade deal that include China and Australia

 

[africanspur]

Specially when it's a lie. In november was signed the RCEP trade deal that include China and Australia

I don't think it's a lie as such. My understanding is that Australia and China have very close trade links and had signed a free trade agreement in 2015 already but increasing tensions have led to escalating economic actions from China towards Australia.

Not that the UK could ever hope to replace the losses that Australia would feel from loss of trade with China.

 

[Cheimoon]

That is the problem.
The poor and vulnerable will always be hit the hardest. Even though many will have voted to leave.

Continuing the WotW theme, is Boris the Artilleryman?

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Specially when it's a lie. In november was signed the RCEP trade deal that include China and Australia

You are correct. The bilateral agreement signed in 2015 by Tony Abbott (sound familiar) had been due for a review this month.

 

[Wibble]

I don't think it's a lie as such. My understanding is that Australia and China have very close trade links and had signed a free trade agreement in 2015 already but increasing tensions have led to escalating economic actions from China towards Australia.

Not that the UK could ever hope to replace the losses that Australia would feel from loss of trade with China.

Another massive own goal by our Federal incompetents. It never occurred to them that a bit of chest beating for domestic consumption might piss the Chinese off.

 

[tinfish]

Not sure where you are seeing that tbh. The main thrust of public statements and media coverage for a bit now has been the 'don't back down on sovereignty' line.
I've not seen the 'it'll hurt them more than us' guff being trotted out for a while. That was wearing thin, so rely on emotional nationalism to blindside people.

Any lad bible/BBC post on Facebook relating to the matter will show you the goons spouting such rubbish.