SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Since all non essential shops were closed on monday it's going really well

The booze shop and flower shop near me are open, people dont care
 
Brwned said:
That isn't what they've said. Saying they need genetic testing to confirm their initial findings is not the same as saying they don't have any findings. Their findings suggest - which is what I said, not confirm - schools don't play a big role in transmission.
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I've literally quoted from the article you've linked to.
 
TheReligion said:
How do you both suggest it's enforced differently?

Simply has to be led by self policing and discipline.
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People have shown themselves to be incapable of self policing as we are just too selfish as a species. Police presence on the roads and stronger messaging on TV/Radio would go a long way.
 
BluesJr said:
People have shown themselves to be incapable of self policing as we are just too selfish as a species. Police presence on the roads and stronger messaging on TV/Radio would go a long way.
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What are the police supposed to be enforcing on the road though?
 
Brwned said:
It is not my claim but their interpretation. There are more cases among that age group but the evidence suggests it is coming from outside schools as much, if not more than, from within schools. The fact that teenagers are infected a little more often might have more to do with how they live their lives outside the classrooms than within it, and they haven't found evidence suggesting classrooms accelerate it, which is why they don't think school closures would have a significant long-term effect on the spread.




I would say they're a bit more than non-commital on it. They say the data so far suggests that it is being introduced from different sources, but they don't have the genetic evidence to confirm that, and the data from PHE on contact tracing is very patchy. They definitely lean one way. Although it's fair to question whether that leaning is influenced more by bias than the noisy signals they're getting from the data.
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You introduce it as more evidence suggesting that school transmission isn’t a big issue. It says PHE suggests it may be coming from outside schools but then clearly says they don’t have any evidence that’s the case and need genetic studies to know more. It doesn’t even tell us why PHE data suggests that. It isn’t evidence of anything other than secondary school kids are testing at a higher rate than anybody else. What are they doing that nobody else is doing?
 
Brwned said:
That isn't what they've said. Saying they need genetic testing to confirm their initial findings is not the same as saying they don't have any findings. Their findings suggest - which is what I said, not confirm - schools don't play a big role in transmission.


Which leads them to say closing schools would only have a temporary effect on cases; in other words, these kids would pick it up from somewhere else, as already do, or the behaviour displacement would lead to more cases elsewhere or later. If schools did play a big role in transmission, above and beyond normal routes of transmission, then closing them would have a long-term effect. Their analysis suggests it wouldn't.
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But that’s working on the assumption that all teenagers are running around meeting all their mates.

whereas we know for fact that they are in an indoor school environment, mixing with kids from other households, in badly ventilated buildings.
 
golden_blunder said:
But that’s working on the assumption that all teenagers are running around meeting all their mates.

whereas we know for fact that they are in an indoor school environment, mixing with kids from other households, in badly ventilated buildings.
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And also ignores the fact that even if they aren’t all picking it up in schools that we are still sending them to a building every day where they are mixing with more people. Whether they are or aren’t a bigger route of transmission than other areas isn’t relevant when it’s the only one we haven’t tried restricting.
 
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Nytram Shakes said:
You could put curfews in place, ban travel over the Xmas period unless you can prove its for work, stop and searches on trains motorways...

Not saying it should be done, but if the government wanted to it would be fairly doable!
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BluesJr said:
People have shown themselves to be incapable of self policing as we are just too selfish as a species. Police presence on the roads and stronger messaging on TV/Radio would go a long way.
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I hear you but it's not realistic or practical to put that on the already stretched police service.
 
F-Red said:
I've literally quoted from the article you've linked to.
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Maybe you've misread the statement. It has been a challenge to "find out more" about the role of schools in the spread of the virus. In spite of those challenges, they've seen enough to make the statement I've quoted. Which for some reason you've just pretended doesn't exist, twice. Fun times.

golden_blunder said:
But that’s working on the assumption that all teenagers are running around meeting all their mates.

whereas we know for fact that they are in an indoor school environment, mixing with kids from other households, in badly ventilated buildings.
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Yeah we have limited evidence on where else it comes from, and have to rely on hypotheses. What science is best at is testing and rejecting hypotheses, rather than proving theories. The hypothesis has been put forward many times that schools are obviously the place where it's spreading like mad, and the evidence has consistently ruled that out.

Sometimes there are super spreader events, just like sometimes there are super spreader events in all indoor areas. But it isn't somewhere that people are disproportionately likely to spread the virus, despite the fact kids are kids, and the schools are how they are. And the hypothesis for that with the most reliable evidence is that kids get infected less easily and spread it less easily, so more contacts lead to proportionately fewer transmissions.

That applies outside school too. Teenagers in general are socialising more than their grand parents in general. Likewise for uni students and their parents. It's not that all of them are doing it, but more are, and more often. Despite that, for much of this year kids have been infected no more often than their parents. Younger kids are usually infected less frequently, and teenagers for most of their time - and for most of the school year - were as likely to get infected as someone my age. Despite seeing many more people in and out of school on average.

That doesn't mean that there isn't some spread in schools - their evidence suggests the opposite. It does have an incremental effect on transmission. But their analysis is that schools are not the primary cause of the spread.
 
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djembatheking said:
Wales is no better than England , my grandson had to wait 2 weeks for a scan as the whole department were isolating because of covid , I have been waiting for over 6 months for an appointment with vascular dept for a clot in my leg , just been put on aspirin and told to wait even though my leg seizes up when walking up hills , meanwhile people are ignoring all regulations and just doing what they want . My neighbours family travel here from Preston every feckin weekend and did so during England last lockdown cos they could go out in Wales. I also look after in laws in their 80s who haven`t been out since March so got used to it now, just keep ourselves to ourselves .
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Have you asked your GP about heparin injections? You self-adminster them in your stomach. I had (bad) phlebitis in the summer in numerous leg veins and the GP (in Italy) prescribed those straight away. I had a three-week course and have been taking aspirin ever since.
 
It’s time here in the US to stop the lunatic press coverage of the vaccines being available. The sheer stupidity & selfishness of a large swath of this country will only become emboldened in their anti-virus behavior & probably even add a slight spike to the double spike we are experiencing.

I get that it is a positive development, but over 3K people are dying a day & rising. That’s where the media focus should be. The vaccines will have almost no positive effect for the general public in this country for months, perhaps even a year. To blow smoke up many willing recipient’s asses by this virtual false dawn is egregious now. To be certain, the immediate roll out of the vaccines was history making & deserved saturation coverage, but it’s long last time to have the media say they are emotional when the sixth clip of a UPS truck leaving a nondescript building or a delivery person is rolling a hand truck into the receiving dock of a medical building.

So many here & worldwide have willfully displayed aggressive ignorance about the pandemic & denied stone cold facts. It’s time to stop giving these mensas the ability to do so further & discuss brass tacks & continue to do so. This potential false dawn of the vaccine arriving in this country will only enhance more suffering & give more rationalization for the deniers to not amend their poor behavior.
 
F-Red said:
What are the police supposed to be enforcing on the road though?
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Random stop checks. See what people are up to. It’s the presence of authority that’s needed in these situations not necessarily action.
 
35k cases in UK and 532 deaths. Really taking off down south and Wales.

Circuit breaker was more like have a break have a kit-kat
 
Brwned said:
Maybe you've misread the statement. It has been a challenge to "find out more" about the role of schools in the spread of the virus. In spite of those challenges, they've seen enough to make the statement I've quoted. Which for some reason you've just pretended doesn't exist, twice. Fun times.
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The bolded part you refer to is interpretation by the BBC, the latter around genetic analysis is a quote from Dr Ladhani. Which is why I didn't go too far into it. The data though excluded tests on year 11 and 13, which Dr Ladhani has said are the two year groups with the highest infection rates. Fun times.

Edit: The only direct quote I've seen from Ladhani...

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Jimble said:
35000 in the UK today. Has anyone seen whether there’s an explanation for the massive jump?
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On the graph breakdown today, Wales have added 11k, it's normally around 2-3k.

Could be those missing cases added in Wales
 
And it looks like the Government that were dead set against school restrictions are now accepting that they may be required in the new year after all. I guess we’ll get our answer then.
 
Penna said:
Have you asked your GP about heparin injections? You self-adminster them in your stomach. I had (bad) phlebitis in the summer in numerous leg veins and the GP (in Italy) prescribed those straight away. I had a three-week course and have been taking aspirin ever since.
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I haven`t Penna . I am at the beginning of the process really , I was really ill last February with what may have been covid , my wife was hospitalised for a week with breathing difficulties after we both caught what we thought at the time was flu off my son who was sharing digs with some chinese that had been home for Christmas . He is 21 and never ill and it really walloped him too. Ever since I have struggled with walking up hills , my right leg is screaming for oxygen so my GP sent me for a doppler test and it showed my right leg had 25% less blood pressure to my other three limbs . I have been referred to vascular but cos of covid no joy so far .
 
acnumber9 said:
There is zero evidence of that provided in your link.
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I'm not sure why you keep doing this. I presented some new data, with the associated analysis, and my own viewpoint. I didn't do it to snipe at anyone. I agree with you that schools play a role in transmission. I agree with you that the government should consider closing secondary schools.

Why do you need to go on the attack every time someone suggests there's some nuances worth discussing on the subject, with some new data? I'm not attacking your view. You're welcome to it. I agree there is ambiguity. Data removes some of that but not much. There's plenty of room for discussion. And you said yourself you have no desire to get drawn into some weird argument about it. Yet you follow up on the next post, and the next post, and the next. I'll pass on that.
 
djembatheking said:
I haven`t Penna . I am at the beginning of the process really , I was really ill last February with what may have been covid , my wife was hospitalised for a week with breathing difficulties after we both caught what we thought at the time was flu off my son who was sharing digs with some chinese that had been home for Christmas . He is 21 and never ill and it really walloped him too. Ever since I have struggled with walking up hills , my right leg is screaming for oxygen so my GP sent me for a doppler test and it showed my right leg had 25% less blood pressure to my other three limbs . I have been referred to vascular but cos of covid no joy so far .
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Jesus. That sounds horrendous
hope that you get an appointment soon and they can come up with a suitable plan for you
 
F-Red said:
What are the police supposed to be enforcing on the road though?
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Well, we have forms to fill in if we have to travel outside the local area for work or emergency. You have to carry the form with you and have ID. You might get stopped or you might not, but if you're stopped and you're travelling when you shouldn't be, you'll get fined.
 
redshaw said:
On the graph breakdown today, Wales have added 11k, it's normally around 2-3k.

Could be those missing cases added in Wales
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Yes there has been some kind of IT issue producing today's numbers that had been left off previously so they warned everyone what was coming.
 
Brwned said:
I'm not sure why you keep doing this. I presented some new data, with the associated analysis, and my own viewpoint. I didn't do it to snipe at anyone. I agree with you that schools play a role in transmission. I agree with you that the government should consider closing secondary schools.

Why do you need to go on the attack every time someone suggests there's some nuances worth discussing on the subject, with some new data? I'm not attacking your view. You're welcome to it. I agree there is ambiguity. Data removes some of that but not much. There's plenty of room for discussion. And you said yourself you have no desire to get drawn into some weird argument about it. Yet you follow up on the next post, and the next post, and the next. I'll pass on that.
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Because you aren’t interested in discussion, merely presenting a flawed defence of your initial position and telling anyone who says otherwise they are wrong. It’s an emotive subject.
 
I'm sorry to hear about your family's problems, @djembatheking. Sounds like you've had a tough time. It's always worth ringing the hospital and just explaining your difficulties, or going back to your GP again.

I realise the NHS is overwhelmed right now, but people still need attention for other conditions, too.
 
BluesJr said:
Random stop checks. See what people are up to. It’s the presence of authority that’s needed in these situations not necessarily action.
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Feels more like a vanity exercise than anything else. A waste of police resources.
 
F-Red said:
Feels more like a vanity exercise than anything else. A waste of police resources.
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Not really, we had police check points and police on the roads during our lockdown back in March. They operated with an education first approach and only fined multiple repeat offenders. It worked well, it wasnt onerous and the general public didnt react badly to it. Also we had less crime during our lockdown in general so ploce resources were doing more community based work. Also it gave the general public who were trying to do there bit by following the rules more confidence that the less responsible werent just doing whatever they wanted. Not a waste of Police resources at all, in fact the opposite.
 
Stack said:
Not really, we had police check points and police on the roads during our lockdown back in March. They operated with an education first approach and only fined multiple repeat offenders. It worked well, it wasnt onerous and the general public didnt react badly to it. Also we had less crime during our lockdown in general so ploce resources were doing more community based work. Also it gave the general public who were trying to do there bit by following the rules more confidence that the less responsible werent just doing whatever they wanted. Not a waste of Police resources at all, in fact the opposite.
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Works fine in other countries, it just wouldn't work with the limited police resources we have here.
 
F-Red said:
UK.
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Bollocks,
it would absolutely work there. Ive lived there a couple of times over the years and was last there just 2 years ago. I was also born there. It would absolutely work there, the police resources are strong enough to handle it with ease. Utter bollocks.
 
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