Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[Paul the Wolf]

 

[Berbasbullet]

Announcement from Barnier today?

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Announcement from Barnier today?

He's giving an update later this afternoon, could be the moment of truth.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Indeed... the numbers are easy to come to an agreement over... its how both sides can politically spin it to blame the other ... my gut feel is they will find a way of phasing down the quotas over time if they want to but as you say do they really want to

I appreciate your optimism.

It has been obvious for a long time that the Tories are happy with no deal.

Many have bet against the pound, it will fall after 1st Jan, then we'll cobble together a deal.

 

[sun_tzu]

I appreciate your optimism.

It has been obvious for a long time that the Tories are happy with no deal.

Many have bet against the pound, it will fall after 1st Jan, then we'll cobble together a deal.

Possibly... as somebody who imports and exports the idea of having stuff in transit with changing rules is at best suboptimal ... I still think they patch up a shitty deal and blame each other for said shittyness but either way there is going to be a huge mess at the ports... my gut feel is that there is too much posturing and not enough blaming as I'd expect if no deal really was what both sides expected

 

[Berbasbullet]

He's giving an update later this afternoon, could be the moment of truth.

I can’t see EU calling no deal, so imagine a deal has been made.

 

[sun_tzu]

I can’t see EU calling no deal, so imagine a deal has been made.

I'd have expected a joint conference for a deal? Or at least simultaneous

That said I think id have expected the same with no deal... we tried we are still friends etc

So perhaps it really is the start of the blame games?

Though I think the eu said before they wouldn't stop negotiating right up to 31st to try and get a deal?

 

[Berbasbullet]

I'd have expected a joint conference for a deal? Or at least simultaneous

That said I think id have expected the same with no deal... we tried we are still friends etc

So perhaps it really is the start of the blame games?

Though I think the eu said before they wouldn't stop negotiating right up to 31st to try and get a deal?

Good point actually and Boris would want to be part of an announcement wouldn’t he?

Yeah that’s what I thought they said too, maybe it’s just them saying prepare for no deal, we will keep trying?

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I can’t see EU calling no deal, so imagine a deal has been made.

As far as I understand, he's updating the EU member states, but as of now I don't think there's an agreement.

 

[sun_tzu]

Good point actually and Boris would want to be part of an announcement wouldn’t he?

Yeah that’s what I thought they said too, maybe it’s just them saying prepare for no deal, we will keep trying?

Perhaps saying both negotiating teams have gone as far as they can and there isn't quite a deal but setting up a call with boris and ursula to try and steal the limelight... erm seal a deal...

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Perhaps saying both negotiating teams have gone as far as they can and there isn't quite a deal but setting up a call with boris and ursula to try and steal the limelight... erm seal a deal...

I believe Boris and Ursula spoke together last night. Furthermore I 'd hazard a guess that Boris took the opportunity when speaking to Macron about the temporary border closure to try to speak to him about the fish.

 

[Maticmaker]

It has been obvious for a long time that the Tories are happy with no deal.

Its been obvious from the day May said "No deal is better than a bad deal".
This simple statement has sustained the Tories throughout, and its resonance with the electorate helped them win a crushing GE victory with 80 seat majority, and possibly to finish off the Labour party as their main opposition (time will tell...) . The Tories can now truly see themselves as being the natural Party of Government.

The concept of 'perpetual power' does however come at a price. The Tories will have to deal with Covid (and its fallout) for years to come and this will tend to overshadow Brexit; now that can be a blessing (for them) if the 'plague of locusts' predictions come true, because its hides the truth. However, whatever success Brexit might bring, will also be overshadowed by the curse of the Covid and Boris will have to make good on his promise to 'level up'. That is where the effects of a weakened almost irrelevant Labour party comes in; the Tories will ditch Boris and return to their normal political leanings and there will be no real opposition. Ironically, the stronger that Labour gets, will tend to sustain Boris in the Tory leadership, if they believe he can still retain the votes from the 'red wall' constituencies.

The only other hope is that Boris himself gets either weary, or bored and decides to move on, that happenstance will open up a new era in British politics, but it seems a long way off just now!

 

[Tibs]

The recent truck queues, and travel bans, must work in the EUs favour to get a deal done

 

[Paul the Wolf]

The recent truck queues, and travel bans, must work in the EUs favour to get a deal done

The queues will still be there even with a deal - the deal is not about rejoining the customs union.

What the travel bans should have done is to make Brexiters realise that every state in the EU is sovereign and that the supply route to the UK is vital. It won't though, naturally.

 

[TheGame]

 

[FireballXL5]

Brexit was always about immigration/racism. There was nothing else.

 

[Simbo]

The recent truck queues, and travel bans, must work in the EUs favour to get a deal done

Yeh, it also hilariously points out to the morons that you dont' need to leave the EU to control your borders.

 

[Drifter]

Lorry drivers scuffle with police as tension mounts over Dover backlog


https://news.sky.com/story/lorry-drivers-scuffle-with-police-amid-dover-backlog-12170954

 

[Paul the Wolf]

It's the Polish Muslims he doesn't like.

 

[Buster15]

Lorry drivers scuffle with police as tension mounts over Dover backlog


https://news.sky.com/story/lorry-drivers-scuffle-with-police-amid-dover-backlog-12170954

I am surprised that it is not much worse. Just put yourself in their place. Not pleasant at the best of times.

 

[F-Red]

I am surprised that it is not much worse. Just put yourself in their place. Not pleasant at the best of times.

Very little in terms of welfare provision for the drivers, shocking.

 

[Maticmaker]

Very little in terms of welfare provision for the drivers, shocking.

Yes, gap in the market occurring, lots of business opportunity for buddying entrepreneurs to 'sling up' marquees, tents etc. to provide first aid services, toilets, showers, take away services, overnight accommodation, etc. for drivers and if everything goes as expected with the Brexit (No Deal) the 'long-stay' lorry parking situation will become permanent, so possibly a longer term investment called for, who says Brexit doesn't have a silver lining, it will for many!

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Sometimes I really hate this country, do other countries have such a large number of dribbling bile spewing moronic arrogant cock snots?

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Yes, gap in the market occurring, lots of business opportunity for buddying entrepreneurs to 'sling up' marquees, tents etc. to provide first aid services, toilets, showers, take away services, overnight accommodation, etc. for drivers and if everything goes as expected with the Brexit (No Deal) the 'long-stay' lorry parking situation will become permanent, so possibly a longer term investment called for, who says Brexit doesn't have a silver lining, it will for many!

Want to go half-in on my lorry motel/fighting pit idea? We'll make millions!

 

[calodo2003]

Brexit was always about immigration/racism. There was nothing else.

I asked months ago if this was the case, if distilled down Brexit was basically about racism & xenophobia. Some said it was, some had other reasons.

As an outsider looking in, it’s tough not to see Brexit being about those two things at its core. There was a lot of bluster to obfuscate this fact, but it appears to be such.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Brexit was always about immigration/racism. There was nothing else.

that’s just not true.

Ot is very difficult to be nuanced with a binary decision, but the country’s is not just two types of people - those who voted to leave and those who voted to stay. Clearly for some people immigration was a factor, and perhaps the only factor for them.

however, don’t assume that’s the case for everyone that voted to leave.

 

[JPRouve]

that’s just not true.

Ot is very difficult to be nuanced with a binary decision, but the country’s is not just two types of people - those who voted to leave and those who voted to stay. Clearly for some people immigration was a factor, and perhaps the only factor for them.

however, don’t assume that’s the case for everyone that voted to leave.

What were the other reasons?

 

[RedSky]

What were the other reasons?

The nasty EU were upto no good and started making trouble in our neighboorhood!

 

[Maticmaker]

Want to go half-in on my lorry motel/fighting pit idea? We'll make millions!

Thanks for the offer, but no thanks, will leave that up to the youngsters,

I might considering going in partnership with my nephew in providing a 'Post Card from a Lorry park' direct mailing service, this has a picture of the Lorry Park in question on one side and on the other side space for the driver to explain their excuses to his wife/husband or partner.
Also via a separate service phone App, we will have one of those aerial shots of all the lorries on the park with a 'spot my lorry' section (sent in via the app) and the winner notified in same day. The first prize will be a flask of Coffee, 4-sandwiches, a loo roll and an inflatable neck rest, delivered to the winner vehicle by our mobile (motor bike) assistants.

 

[JPRouve]

The nasty EU were upto no good and started making trouble in our neighboorhood!

It did seem that it was polish immigrants, Turkey presumably joining the EU, those pesky southern europeans, the french and germans who are clearly against the UK, the lads hiding in Brussels and plotting against the UK. And generally the idea of taking back control of the borders.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

What were the other reasons?

It has been 4.5 years, and going over some serious old ground.

It is utter insanity to assume the 18m people had the same reasons for voting.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

What were the other reasons?

Best to ask what the advantages are, haven't heard of any yet.

Immigration is higher than ever so that didn't work. Strike one.

 

[JPRouve]

It has been 4.5 years, and going over some serious old ground.

It is utter insanity to assume the 18m people had the same reasons for voting.

It has been 4.5 years and no one can come up with a credible different answer. And it made particularly difficult by the simple fact that both the political class and the media built brexit on fear of the foreigner and foreign institutions.
The insanity is to try to sell the idea that the campaigns built around immigrants stealing jobs/chasing benefits, a potential muslim invasion when Turkey joins the EU, the constant lies about the EU as an institution, the lies about the UK not being sovereign anymore, about the UK being ruled by foreigners.

That campaign has been built for more than a decade and we still have people acting as if there was an other reason behind brexit, a reason(s) that is still not explained after 4.5 years.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

There were many reasons what people thought they were voting for when they voted Brexit but there were only two reasons why they voted Brexit.
1. they were complete morons or 2. they were insane.

 

[Maticmaker]

It has been 4.5 years, and going over some serious old ground.

It is utter insanity to assume the 18m people had the same reasons for voting.

Yet in a way they did... it was the first time since the 1970's, with a number of major treaties having changed, with both the number of countries increased and introducing a unitary money system, i.e. what became known as the euro zone, that anyone in the UK had have ever been asked to vote directly on EEC/EU matters .
So the answer to the question about same reasons for voting ... was because for the first time in over forty years they could!

 

[JPRouve]

There were many reasons what people thought they were voting for when they voted Brexit but there were only two reasons why they voted Brexit.
1. they were complete morons or 2. they were insane.

I wouldn't say it like that. When you are discreetly fed a narrative for a long time, you may begin to eat it.

 

[Drifter]

The real problem was the leave campaign. That spent most of the time fearmongering and not explaining to people all that was good about being in the EU, and what they had done for you.

 

[Buster15]

What were the other reasons?

Good question. What I find most obvious is that the whole leave imperative was based on a fictitious illusion. And there were countless versions of that illusion. Most were philosophical arguments with close to zero concrete examples.

Very few people, me included, took the time to try to understand how the EU actually operated; specifically the free market.
One person who most definitely did not and still does not is our PM. He loves to quote the UK as a sovereign nation without understanding that you can still be a sovereign nation (whatever that means) while still being a member of the EU.
But we are where we are and are just going to have to live with the consequences of our actions.
EDIT. Meant to say single market.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I wouldn't say it like that. When you are discreetly fed a narrative for a long time, you may begin to eat it.

Because they did not have the capacity to think for themselves but I understand your point. It becomes a kind of hysteria.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

The real problem was the leave campaign. That spent most of the time fearmongering and not explaining to people all that was good about being in the EU, and what they had done for you.

Ah yes because it needs to be explained to everyone how not to be an idiot. Anyone with any common sense could see Brexit was a disaster and there was only one way to vote.