Maybe they left it to the last second to avoid scrutiny
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Maybe they left it to the last second to avoid scrutiny
Only while they needed DUP votes.
Hard Brexiters get their deal, lets hope its as good as promised.
Im ready to move on.
Im ready to move on.
That was created by the EU and is framed in the most favourable way for them. Some of the criteria are ridiculous. “Easy recognition of professional qualifications”. It also doesn’t account for any of the things that are possible outside EU membership.
It is a list to encourage people who exist in the EU currently to appreciate some of the things they have, and it’s a reasonable one, but it isn’t a complete and objective assessment of what was gained and lost.
The poster made a point saying that the reason the pound dropped was because it was supposedly overvalued. However although it did drop initially after that, it regained its value by December. It then dropped when the rumours started that there was going to be a referendum. And has fallen ever since.
Currencies react to events. The pound was 1.67 in 2001 and went down to 1.02 during the crash. If the UK had left with no deal it would have dropped below parity.
So what are you saying, the other poster is correct because it's the reason you want it to be.
Nothing was gained. The only question is how much was lost for the Brits.
I can use my phone in the USA and Australia for free, and many other countries not in the EU.
We already know additional revenues were gained for fishing. The EU upped their offer multiple times. It does also provide flexibility in multiple areas. The economic costs clearly outweighs the gains but the reason Brexiteers don’t engage in these debates is because people so flippantly say “nothing was x” when that is clearly not the case, and it doesn’t become a discussion about nuances but extremes. When the belief of EU supporters echoes the propaganda docs it raises questions.
Where am I moving the goalposts. The agreement was already in place, and parts of it were stripped out. Starting from scratch for a new agreement will take years.
I admit it's unusual to voluntarily be worse off. It's a bit like renegotiating your employment contract to reduce your salary so you can have another job and then not get another job.
we will see a lot of this. Just posturing and bluster from both sides. Always surprises me how easily people believe what the EU say and take it as gospel.
they have political masters they have to placate and the people of 27 nations.
people should have the same level of scepticism for both sides.
Sorry I pick up the wrong post.
We got sovereignty over our fishing waters.... Well, kinda, sorta, not really but BJ got his sound bite.
So now we all need to recapture our Dunkirk spirit row out into the Channel and catch ourselves something for dinner. Mind that you don't get hit by a ferry though.
Which is way I said that the only real question is, how much it is that has been lost. Much less than in a "no deal" scenario of course but it's nothing more than damage limitation. And I agree this graphic you quoted doesn't nearly show the full picture.
For my own profession the international law provisions will be interesting. Law applicable and place of jurisdiction is very well regulated within the EU. The Hague Convention does not cover all aspects of it at all and it looks unlikely that the EU will accept a re-joining of the Brits to the Lugano convention.
If you are just saying there will be a net loss and so the size of the losses matter most, then I agree. But that isn’t the same as saying there were no (gross) gains. There are things you can do outside of the EU than you can inside it. Not enough to justify it but now that we’re here, those gains are worth thinking about.
Dont let the media spin it any other way, this is a hard brexit and as hard as it could have been without being no deal.
I agree
Exactly this. The wheels will come off this pretty quickly I imagine.
I think we’ve moved on from hard and soft Brexit a long time ago.
Yes, we realised that they were going hard brexit a long time ago. This deal is what everyone used to call hard brexit, but they successfully shifted the narrative with the public thanks to the media to this vs no deal.
So please correct me if I am wrong. Just trying to understand.
GB -> ROI = Full EU checks, taxes, etc
ROI -> GB = ??? Full EU checks, taxes, etc ???
GB -> NI = No checks. Partial taxes etc
NI -> ROI = No taxes just need to register for VAR/EORI number to put on the shipping
ROI -> NI = No taxes just need to register for VAR/EORI number to put on the shipping
If correct, it does seems like it makes sense to ship to NI and move them south later on land.
To be honest, I think this was expected from day one.
Yes. I think everyone agrees Brexit was always going to be a net loss for UK. I haven't had a chance to read any of the details so I really am curious. What did the UK gain from this? The only thing I have seen is retaining the zero tariff/quota trade status.
It does look like a bad deal at this point. But I wouldn't call it as bad as no deal. That would have been even worse. E.g. no zero tariff/quota trades. Full on customs and immigration checks. Maybe even full blocking of UK fish in EU.
Randomly came across this post on twitter just now.. wtf?
Last edited:
Some might be a bit hyperbolic but most of the list still stands and isn’t exhaustive, we have lost an awful lot, I do agree it is a little bit of propaganda on the EU’s part but it is true.
The ol’ true Propaganda hey? Nobody will fall for it.
I am going to ask a question that had been asked here several times. but I am asking you genuinely to you because you are a serious poster. Which are these RELEVANT gross gains of Brexit?
I think peoples' issue around this has always been a complete lack of calibration in how our minds work. Its probably a bit like expecting a dog to understand how a dog thinks or vica verse. It isn't going to work.
Fishing is one for example. There is no doubt that some UK fishermen have been screwed a tad by how fishing has been negotiated over the past decades. For them, that is their most important issue because it is very literally their livelihood. They don't care about erasmus programmes or pet passports or whether a Brit can have their engineering degree recognised in France because that stuff is abstract and alien and pointless to them. For them, the ability for the UK to eventually be able to set a far more UK centric view on the fishing quotas is a net positive.
Of course, for me, as a doctor living in London who barely even touches fish, this topic could not be less important to me. For me, the status quo is more than manageable. For me, I like being able to travel to Europe visa free. I liked the idea of potentially being able to retire in France or Spain because, if I stay alive, I know that option was financially likely to be available to me. I like that my kids would have been able to exchange with their friends and colleagues across Europe. I like the very idea of the EU and what it means.
They'd probably dismiss me as a liberal metropolitan elite though and not care about my opinion and that's probably fair enough because I can't hope to have an understanding of their situation, as much as I may try to sympathise.
For them, a short to medium term general economic hit may be worth what they perceive to be other tangible benefits in their livelihood or indeed what they perceive to be a generally better path for the UK to take. Again, I'd disagree.
Which UK fishermen and how?
Feels like something you'd hear on Channel X in GTA.
And move on we must. There is no going back. Only forward. It matters not whether the deal is hard or soft or good or bad or anywhere in between. What is important now is for the UK to make the best of it and try to rebuild its tattered reputation in an increasingly global world.
And if either side as a big issue, it can be fixed area by area. At this point the crucial part was to find an agreement that fixes the irish border issue and to be on the same page when it comes to governance.
You are right but having voted, now that it has been virtually agreed subject to ratification, have the people who voted for it the slightest idea of what has been agreed.
From what I've seen so far, not many.
There are lots of details to be unveiled but it seems clear from some of the details revealed so far, and I don't mean the table that was quoted earlier, even the celebrated 'tariff-free and quota-free' is not quite as a lot of people seem to interpret it.
PS good luck
Its infinitely much worse than what you had. You have been set back a couple of decades of progress to keep tax dodging millionaires happy.
With any luck it will hasten a united Ireland and a free Scotland.
To be honest, there’s a danger we over analyse the deal. The trade deal just sets the rules of the game, but the game itself hasn’t yet started. It will play out over decades as businesses compete, technology develops and economies realign.
The economic story of the last century was the dominance of the USA and the shaping of global trade in its own image. A lot of people seem to think the next century might be Asia’s... so I’m sure we’ll see Europe and the U.K. start a strategic shift in that direction at some point.
The economic story of the last century was the dominance of the USA and the shaping of global trade in its own image. A lot of people seem to think the next century might be Asia’s... so I’m sure we’ll see Europe and the U.K. start a strategic shift in that direction at some point.
I don't disagree with you but I have a sneaky suspicion that this wasn't in the minds of the people who voted Brexit nor what they are expecting in a week's time.
Nah, it'll be fine. It'll be the end of Scotland if we actually let the fecktards in the SNP get their way. A bunch of halfwits who have the piss easy job of moaning about the UK government, and a bunch of halfwits who believe having a difference of opinion should mean division. Anti brexit, but pro nationalism. feck off. It's a mess up here.
It's a mess everywhere, to be fair. I don't share your optimism that it'll be fine, though. Nothing that this UK government has done shows that it'll be anything other than another spectacular shitshow. It'll be sold as a good thing though, such as their response that we'll know longer have access to a European criminal and weapons database being "it'll be fine because we'll just have stricter border controls".
Loads of stories on twitter of the debacle at Kent. 30 Polish doctors did 1200 tests and the Polish army and French firefighters also joined in. I also saw a post about a Polish guy who drove provisions down for the drivers. They had to find a hole in the fence to pass food through.
Thats why i said RELEVANT gor the Uk, not for a person or a group of persons. I am sure that other people was benefited by the pound plumeting or the young englush football players will have more opportunities bc there is no more Bosman law. The same of traffic schools that will have courses for european driving licenses or the travel insurances. And many more other clusters but RELEVANT for the UK that affects a majority and positively of the population economically speaking. Is there any?