The “Ole In” Brigade

reelworld said:
:lol:
That's ridiculous
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Is it? You either see the good work he was doing or you don't. If you're that fickle that you change your mind based on a good few weeks then you shouldn't be shocked if people say you're not worth listening to

You realise it was less than 4 weeks ago people were calling him a coward for a 0-0 with City?
 
Green_Red said:
10 games unbeaten now in the league, 8 wins. We are capable of keeping this run going too. We look focused, fit and confident. This is easily the best United team post Fergie.
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Isnt that the expectation after the money spent? We actually have a great squad so I dont know what we praise Ole for. If he does manage to get past January still level with liverpool while progressing to the cup final he will deserve all the praise.
 
KennyBurner said:
Isnt that the expectation after the money spent? We actually have a great squad so I dont know what we praise Ole for. If he does manage to get past January still level with liverpool while progressing to the cup final he will deserve all the praise.
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If this post (on top of his others in this thread) doesn't prove to y'all that this dude is seriously wumming you all you need to turn in your account posting privileges.

To give you some credit I did think from your first ones that you are just clueless, but I see now it was calculated, you just went a bit too far there.
 
charlenefan said:
Is it? You either see the good work he was doing or you don't. If you're that fickle that you change your mind based on a good few weeks then you shouldn't be shocked if people say you're not worth listening to

You realise it was less than 4 weeks ago people were calling him a coward for a 0-0 with City?
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The work Ole is doing is not a static thing. It changes with time and other factors.
Since we're not fortune tellers, we can only judge him from the results that he gets.
If the results are good then he's doing a good job.
If the results are bad then he's not doing a good job. It's a result oriented business
 
I’m really hoping Ole proves me wrong, I’ve said that we won’t win the league with Ole!
He’s put himself in a great position to prove a lot of people wrong and the minimum I think is to be in the race this season! I just hope I get proven wrong.
 
I've changed my mind on Ole many times now. But regardless to what you think of him you can't deny that:
  1. The team is improving
  2. He seems to be learning on the job
  3. The players believe in him
I consider the last one to be the most important of all. No matter how great you are, if the players lose faith you're done, and even in his worst runs he managed to keep the players fighting for him. We have a very good squad now with a lot of depth, and a top quality player here and there would make us proper title challenger. I don't think we'll win the league, but we're in the right direction in a way that we weren't with the previous managers.
 
reelworld said:
The work Ole is doing is not a static thing. It changes with time and other factors.
Since we're not fortune tellers, we can only judge him from the results that he gets.
If the results are good then he's doing a good job.
If the results are bad then he's not doing a good job. It's a result oriented business
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And that's where you're wrong
 
Matriac said:
If this post (on top of his others in this thread) doesn't prove to y'all that this dude is seriously wumming you all you need to turn in your account posting privileges.

To give you some credit I did think from your first ones that you are just clueless, but I see now it was calculated, you just went a bit too far there.
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Jesus Christ what the hell are you on about? what is so wumming about what Ive said? We do have a great squad no? Ive always maintained that we have a great squad to challenge. If we get past January with 8 games left to play then he will deserve the praise.
 
charlenefan said:
actually I'd respect them more if they stayed true, you either think he's the right man for the job or you don't. Good or bad runs of form shouldn't change that
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Can't tell whether you're joking, but surely that makes no sense at all. You're saying regardless of stimulus (whether from an argument, or better still an observation), one should just stick with their original opinion?

How on earth is learning as a concept supposed to happen?
 
KennyBurner said:
This is one of the reasons why i just cant fully support Ole. Maguire has had this problem for over a year and yet it still continues. A great manager would instruct him to play quicker and take few touches. Most of our players have bad footballing habits that can be corrected with with proper training yet never is. Its why so many of us believe we coast by on individualism rather than managerial coaching.
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You think a manager can correct engrained bad habits players still have after playing the game for 20+ years with a bit of training. It's all very simple in you're eyes isn't it?

Have you much experience training anyone to do anything out of interest?
 
Someone said:
I've changed my mind on Ole many times now. But regardless to what you think of him you can't deny that:
  1. The team is improving
  2. He seems to be learning on the job
  3. The players believe in him
I consider the last one to be the most important of all. No matter how great you are, if the players lose faith you're done, and even in his worst runs he managed to keep the players fighting for him. We have a very good squad now with a lot of depth, and a top quality player here and there would make us proper title challenger. I don't think we'll win the league, but we're in the right direction in a way that we weren't with the previous managers.
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Spot on, and a much more balanced take than you usually see from the, er, louder folks on both sides of the argument (:

I don't think Ole is a world class manager, and I would have been happy to see him out twelve months ago after that Burnley loss. Then he turned it around after the lockdown and the team produced some scintillating football, and I loved every minute of it. Expectations for the new season for me were simple: 80 points, 80 goals in the league, position in the table being secondary because that depends on what the other teams do. After another awful start, they're on course to meet these targets, and that's with three of the most important players in that post-lockdown run (Martial, Pogba, Greenwood) badly struggling for form and goals for most of the season.

Exciting stuff, and I can't imagine why anyone would be so fixated on being "right" about the manager's competence over enjoying some excellent football and being level on points with the leaders in January!
 
Withnail said:
You think a manager can correct engrained bad habits players still have after playing the game for 20+ years with a bit of training. It's all very simple in you're eyes isn't it?

Have you much experience training anyone to do anything out of interest?
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a bit of ‘coaching’ sorts everything out. Just a shame we apparently don’t do any of this magical ‘coaching’ malarkey (apparently).
 
Withnail said:
You think a manager can correct engrained bad habits players still have after playing the game for 20+ years with a bit of training. It's all very simple in you're eyes isn't it?

Have you much experience training anyone to do anything out of interest?
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A fully fit professional should be able to change a habit from a game just next to the other, no matter what habit it is. We're talking about a fecking job, you either listen to the instructions or you're benched, as simple as that.
 
Green_Red said:
10 games unbeaten now in the league, 8 wins. We are capable of keeping this run going too. We look focused, fit and confident. This is easily the best United team post Fergie.
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It's debateable, Mourinho got 81 points and at least reached the CL knockouts. I'm not convinced this team will better that (they've already failed on the CL front), it's just that we're lucky City won't get 100 points this season to make us look bad. We could win the league with 80 points this year.
 
Withnail said:
You think a manager can correct engrained bad habits players still have after playing the game for 20+ years with a bit of training. It's all very simple in you're eyes isn't it?

Have you much experience training anyone to do anything out of interest?
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Football is very simple yes. Train your players with instructions and over time you will see less errors and more desired results for what you plan to accomplish. Its also not "a bit" of training because Maguire has been here for more than a year. There is no reason for him to continuously dwell on the ball while moving with no purpose. Its only the last few games he has started playing with purpose and moving the ball in different directions other than the left. Very small sample size to judge him on and will have to wait till the end of season before we know if he has actually progressed.
 
Glorio said:
Can't tell whether you're joking, but surely that makes no sense at all. You're saying regardless of stimulus (whether from an argument, or better still an observation), one should just stick with their original opinion?

How on earth is learning as a concept supposed to happen?
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Im saying people shouldn't be so quick to so vehemently form a stance one way or the other. In the context of Ole In or Out if people have formed the stance of wanting him out based on the previous 18 months then a few good weeks now shouldn't change that
 
KennyBurner said:
Football is very simple yes. Train your players with instructions and over time you will see less errors and more desired results for what you plan to accomplish. Its also not "a bit" of training because Maguire has been here for more than a year. There is no reason for him to continuously dwell on the ball while moving with no purpose. Its only the last few games he has started playing with purpose and moving the ball in different directions other than the left. Very small sample size to judge him on and will have to wait till the end of season before we know if he has actually progressed.
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Hmm maybe he's settling into the team after a whole year at an elite club, he's clearly slow I know because football is a simple game .
 
Glorio said:
Can't tell whether you're joking, but surely that makes no sense at all. You're saying regardless of stimulus (whether from an argument, or better still an observation), one should just stick with their original opinion?

How on earth is learning as a concept supposed to happen?
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exactly. I was reading charlenefan comment three times to see if what I was reading was what he/she actually meant. got to the conclusion that it was no joke, and that’s a pretty narrow minded perspective
 
youmeletsfly said:
A fully fit professional should be able to change a habit from a game just next to the other, no matter what habit it is. We're talking about a fecking job, you either listen to the instructions or you're benched, as simple as that.
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You just disqualified yourself from this discussion.
 
Withnail said:
Oh they definitely will. We will, of course, drop points and they'll be back with pages and pages of doom and gloom... Pricks
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It always makes me laugh when we win because I always imagine the vehement Ole Outers throwing their phones at the TV and crying in their beers. It's even funnier when we win late in games because they always come out in force in the matchday threads then have to quickly retreat again. it's quite hilarious.

The saltiness of oppo fans and their conspiracy theories is even more glorious. :D
 
charlenefan said:
Is it? You either see the good work he was doing or you don't. If you're that fickle that you change your mind based on a good few weeks then you shouldn't be shocked if people say you're not worth listening to

You realise it was less than 4 weeks ago people were calling him a coward for a 0-0 with City?
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Wow, I’d hate to see what they were saying about Pep then...
 
KennyBurner said:
Isnt that the expectation after the money spent? We actually have a great squad so I dont know what we praise Ole for. If he does manage to get past January still level with liverpool while progressing to the cup final he will deserve all the praise.
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Many clubs, including ourselves, have spent money and a) not assembled a great squad or b) Not been able to make it work.

If Ole gets the criticism when it goes wrong then he needs to get the praise for the points above too.
 
RedPed said:
It always makes me laugh when we win because I always imagine the vehement Ole Outers throwing their phones at the TV and crying in their beers. It's even funnier when we win late in games because they always come out in force in the matchday threads then have to quickly retreat again. it's quite hilarious.

The saltiness of oppo fans and their conspiracy theories is even more glorious. :D
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It's even better when we go 1 nil down and come back in the second half.

All the hot-takes evaporating and floating in the breeze.
 
KennyBurner said:
Isnt that the expectation after the money spent? We actually have a great squad so I dont know what we praise Ole for. If he does manage to get past January still level with liverpool while progressing to the cup final he will deserve all the praise.
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He built the poxy squad though didn't he?
 
crossy1686 said:
Wow, I’d hate to see what they were saying about Pep then...
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Schrödinger's Pep.

Whether you open the box or not he's either a Pep Guardiola is my idol or the second best coach in the league*.

(Used to be best before another manager won the league once.)
 
youmeletsfly said:
A fully fit professional should be able to change a habit from a game just next to the other, no matter what habit it is. We're talking about a fecking job, you either listen to the instructions or you're benched, as simple as that.
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Stop smoking, stop gambling, stop drinking, stop opening the fridge and closing it again, stop looking at your phone every 2 minutes when you’re bored, stop forgetting your mask, stop blaming other people for your problems. It’s easy, especially when you’re a professional at anything.
 
It’s possible to be critical of individual decisions, large and small, and still support management in its support of Ole.

We’re going in the right direction. To even think, let alone publicly opine, about sacking Ole right now is madness.
 
Can anyone remember the last days of Jose? Please compare it to now. Think of the harmony in the squad. Think of the young guys coming through and the football we are playing.

The hard work (dead wood, fitness, squad harmony and mentality) has been done over the last 2 years. This next year will be the finessing. We need a title or cup in the next 2 years and we need a RW.
 
lex talionis said:
It’s possible to be critical of individual decisions, large and small, and still support management in its support of Ole.

We’re going in the right direction. To even think, let alone publicly opine, about sacking Ole right now is madness.
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I think the majority of people agree with you and have this stance. To even consider sacking Ole when you look at the facts is impossible.

However, when he was interim, there was a section of our support who wanted us to LOSE a game while on that unbeaten run just so they could see how Ole “got the team to bounce back”. It’s become clear now they just didn’t want him to get the job at all because he wasn’t a fancy name, and they’re carrying on that same narrative now with lots of moving of goalposts.
 
I don't get the logic of it being too soon to praise him when it clearly isn't too soon to criticise him. It has to work both ways.

I still don't think his game management is particularly great, but we're a much better team than when he took over. You can argue the progress has been slow but if the club had signed the players he wanted when he wanted them to the improvement might have been quicker. Having Fernandes at the start of last season instead of having to limp to Christmas relying on Lingard and Pereira for example.
 
Dominos said:
It's debateable, Mourinho got 81 points and at least reached the CL knockouts. I'm not convinced this team will better that (they've already failed on the CL front), it's just that we're lucky City won't get 100 points this season to make us look bad. We could win the league with 80 points this year.
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The football that team played was abysmal and we didn’t score goals in line with our rivals: one look at how we actually played and it was obvious that the team was destined for failure. This team is comfortably better.
 
Fletchageddon said:
Can anyone remember the last days of Jose?
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Dominos said:
It's debateable, Mourinho got 81 points and at least reached the CL knockouts. I'm not convinced this team will better that (they've already failed on the CL front), it's just that we're lucky City won't get 100 points this season to make us look bad. We could win the league with 80 points this year.
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It is debatable, but this United team play much more entertaining football and are actually starting to play the 'United way' again. Mourinho didn't fit the United tradition and played very pragmatic football.

Points don't always tell who was a better team either. Leicester in their PL win finished on 81 points, whereas United in 1999 treble win only finished on 78 PL points.

The United team in 08/09 CL, PL double win finished on 90 points, and if points alone determine the better team that means this double winning team with Rooney, Ronaldo and co are only the joint 8th best team in PL history. That team is probably the best ever PL team, if anyone said there were 7 better PL winning teams then that would be ludicrous and they would be laughed at.
 
reelworld said:
So if Ole won the league then everybody who doubt him can't change their opinions? That's bonkers
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You're reaching now, winning the league? Lets see where we are come April before there's any of that talk.

Fact is we're the start of January and so anyone who wanted him sacked in November shouldn't be blinded by a good couple of weeks in December and likewise those who have seen the good in the work he was doing shouldn't be blinded if we run into a bad patch in February (on whenever it may be)

If you flip flop as regular as the weather as I said before dont be surprised when people call you out
 
crossy1686 said:
I think the majority of people agree with you and have this stance. To even consider sacking Ole when you look at the facts is impossible.

However, when he was interim, there was a section of our support who wanted us to LOSE a game while on that unbeaten run just so they could see how Ole “got the team to bounce back”. It’s become clear now they just didn’t want him to get the job at all because he wasn’t a fancy name, and they’re carrying on that same narrative now with lots of moving of goalposts.
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That’s a fukked up way to approach life, almost like hoping you catch your wife getting boned by the pool boy just so you can have a reason to divorce her.

Here we are now. All you Ole Outters, why not get on the train and ride it as long as it lasts? If and when it goes south, then go ahead and moan then.
 
Well, here's the points table comparison for each season since Sir Alex. I'm marked in red the numbers that represent games with less points than our current total. I.E. Last season it took till match day 22 to have more points than we do now.

We're behind on Joses 2nd place finish season (17-18) but ahead of all the other seasons by at least 2 games.
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