The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll

[Classical Mechanic]

Yet the latest real world studies in Israel show that effectiveness after the first jab is closer to 31% which undermines the UKs gamble. There is still more data to come.

This is not only a public health to a pandemic internationally. This is quite a gamble from the UK. How many other countries are increasing the gap between jabs as far apart as the UK?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55734257


Addressing Prof Nachman Ash's quotes, the Israeli Ministry of Health said: "The comments of the Israeli Covid-19 commissioner regarding the effect of the first dose of the vaccine were out of context and, therefore, inaccurate.
"The commissioner said we have yet to see a decrease in the number of severely ill patients."

 

[golden_blunder]

China could say it was dark at night and Taiwan would think they were pulling a fast one.

The point is that Taiwan and other countries like Australia, South Korean, Singapore and New Zealand had enough information to act in time, so trying to say the rest of the world wouldn't have had a pandemic if only the WHO had said something more definitive and/or earlier isn't true. Most countries chose not to lock down despite the evidence and wouldn't have done any different no matter what the WHO said because they weren't even listening to their own scientists. I'm not claiming that the WHO are perfect. Far from it. But to lay the blame for the pandemic at their feet is just unsupportable.

True. I mean look at how the U.K. reacted whilst Italy and Spain were getting hammered. They did nothing but hope that it’s not coming to their shores

 

[Dirty Schwein]

True. I mean look at how the U.K. reacted whilst Italy and Spain were getting hammered. They did nothing but hope that it’s not coming to their shores

Well that's not true is it? They also sang 'Happy Birthday' whilst washing their hands.

 

[Mihai]

She should've said "Get out".

He should've said "I'll be back" at the end.

 

[Penna]

Does anyone in the know have any info as to whether the trials are now including people with autoimmune disorders and people who are immuno-compromised?

I would love to have the vaccine, but because of my age I'm likely to reach my place in the queue at a time when there still isn't enough data. I've mentioned before that I had a very serious reaction to vaccines about 25 years ago, and I've never tried to have anything since!

 

[Maticmaker]

My question is, if and when it becomes available to you, are you going to take it?

Yes I'm 74 and just got my invite, due next Friday.

If my posts start making sense and/or don't annoy others thereafter, assume it worked!

 

[balaks]

I got my vaccine two weeks ago and I've been a bit unwell in the past 2 days - stomach cramps, diarrhea and a temperature. Probably unrelated I guess.

 

[Raoul]

He should've said "I'll be back" at the end.

Agreed. In three weeks.

 

[golden_blunder]

Well that's not true is it? They also sang 'Happy Birthday' whilst washing their hands.

True. Also Matt Lucas released “thank you baked potato” which was probably better messaging than the government ones at the time

 

[golden_blunder]

I got my vaccine two weeks ago and I've been a bit unwell in the past 2 days - stomach cramps, diarrhea and a temperature. Probably unrelated I guess.

That happened to me watching Mourinhos United

 

[Pogue Mahone]

A colleague of a friend of mine (medical consultant) was pretty sick from covid in April. Became symptomatic 14 days after first dose of Pfizer vaccine. Covid +ve today. So that sucks.

 

[lynchie]

A colleague of a friend of mine (medical consultant) was pretty sick from covid in April. Became symptomatic 14 days after first dose of Pfizer vaccine. Covid +ve today. So that sucks.

Sheesh - don't ask him to buy your lottery tickets.

 

[Skills]

A colleague of a friend of mine (medical consultant) was pretty sick from covid in April. Became symptomatic 14 days after first dose of Pfizer vaccine. Covid +ve today. So that sucks.

Is it likely that most people who had the disease in April-May have now lost any immunity they had gotten?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Is it likely that most people who had the disease in April-May have now lost any immunity they had gotten?

Dunno about most but some would have. Would like to think they’d respond better than most to a single dose of vaccine though.

 

[Pexbo]

A colleague of a friend of mine (medical consultant) was pretty sick from covid in April. Became symptomatic 14 days after first dose of Pfizer vaccine. Covid +ve today. So that sucks.

On the plus side, the vaccines have been very good at keeping people from becoming critically ill if they do still become positive, haven’t they?

 

[redshaw]

I gathered the main thing from the vaccine was stopping hospitalizations and deaths. You will most likely become sick and probably will shed the virus just the same, we'll have to see it's reduced any. Really just makes you more equipped to not end up in a bad way.

 

[11101]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ow-germany-in-making-clinical-masks-mandatory

I think that's a little bit unfair, all countries currently using pfizer are going to experience delays in the next few weeks at least and I worry considering the delays to the UK supply in December and now the EU supply (and still UK supply) now, whether this is going to be an ongoing issue for them this year.

Let's hope this ramp up in production capacity which is causing these delays allows them to be more consistent with their orders for the rest of the year.

Europe have announced that Pfizer will deliver as normal from next week, and will increase planned deliveries from mid February. It's just this week that experienced a slight reduction (-29% in Italy). It's hardly the disaster that some countries were trying to make out.

 

[prateik]

Dunno about most but some would have. Would like to think they’d respond better than most to a single dose of vaccine though.

Do we know if the immune response from the vaccines (after 2 shots+ week/best case) is similar, better or worse than what the body would have after an average covid infection ? In terms of longevity / months.

I know the CDC had suggested 3 months as the time frame after which people had tested positive could be infected again.. The new guidelines from the US is anyone entering needs a covid negative test or proof that they recovered from it in the last 3 months....
so they are still using that 3 month as a guideline for policy making.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Do we know if the immune response from the vaccines (after 2 shots+ week/best case) is similar, better or worse than what the body would have after an average covid infection ? In terms of longevity / months.

I know the CDC had suggested 3 months as the time frame after which people had tested positive could be infected again.. The new guidelines from the US is anyone entering needs a covid negative test or proof that they recovered from it in the last 3 months....
so they are still using that 3 month as a guideline for policy making.

No we don’t. There are reports out of Israel of much higher levels of antibodies after vaccination than after infection but there isn’t always a direct correlation between antibody levels and immunity and the vaccines haven’t been around long enough to see evidence of efficacy for more than a few months.

 

[Badunk]

Getting my Pfizer vaccine on Tuesday. We have another outbreak at work and one of the staff who tested positive had Covid in the first wave, too. She was also vaccinated a week ago. A few of the staff reported feeling rough and some residents have flu type symptoms.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Getting my Pfizer vaccine on Tuesday. We have another outbreak at work and one of the staff who tested positive had Covid in the first wave, too. She was also vaccinated a week ago. A few of the staff reported feeling rough and some residents have flu type symptoms.

How sick is she compared to her first bout?

 

[Badunk]

Has just felt fatigued and under the weather. She was in today but was sent home when the test results arrived this afternoon. She had it bad in the first wave, couldn't finish a sentence without stopping for breath.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Has just felt fatigued and under the weather. She was in today but was sent home when the test results arrived this afternoon. She had it bad in the first wave, couldn't finish a sentence without stopping for breath.

Music to my ears. It’s looking more and more like immunity is short lived and variable but there does seem to be a trend towards second and subsequent bouts being minor. Which is exactly what you’d hope for. This fecking virus has become so ridiculously contagious that eradication might be off the cards but if a combination of vaccination and repeat infections helps it it become just another flu then that’s all good.

 

[Badunk]

Music to my ears. It’s looking more and more like immunity is short lived and variable but there does seem to be a trend towards second and subsequent bouts being minor. Which is exactly what you’d hope for. This fecking virus has become so ridiculously contagious that eradication might be off the cards but if a combination of vaccination and repeat infections helps it it become just another flu then that’s all good.

She was also the first to get it, around mid-March. I got it at the end of May. I'm hoping for a wee bit more immunity until the vaccine kicks in

 

[Wibble]

No we don’t. There are reports out of Israel of much higher levels of antibodies after vaccination than after infection but there isn’t always a direct correlation between antibody levels and immunity and the vaccines haven’t been around long enough to see evidence of efficacy for more than a few months.

With most highly effective vaccines the response is usually better on average than with natural infections isn't it? I agree we don't have the data for covid yet of course.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

With most highly effective vaccines the response is usually better on average than with natural infections isn't it? I agree we don't have the data for covid yet of course.

I’m not actually sure. The effectiveness of the vaccine tends to correlate with the effectiveness of natural immunity. Hence you only catch measles once and only need to be vaccinated against it once. While you need to be vaccinated against influenza multiple times and can catch it every year. Could be wrong though. Any specific vaccines you’re thinking of?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Actually HPV vaccine works better than infection at giving you immunity. Although I think that’s down to a fairly unique way it evades your immune system, rather than a waning response.

 

[Wibble]

I’m not actually sure. The effectiveness of the vaccine tends to correlate with the effectiveness of natural immunity. Hence you only catch measles once and only need to be vaccinated against it once. While you need to be vaccinated against influenza multiple times and can catch it every year. Could be wrong though. Any specific vaccines you’re thinking of?

No. I just seem to remember reading that somewhere - could be remembering wrong.

Flu is an odd one though because I think it is the large number of true strains, that each require a re-jigged vaccine component, that is the cause (or main cause) of the relatively low effectiveness. Include the right strains in your vaccine and the effectiveness is great but don't and it is rubbish. Plus the flu evolves quickly.

I also seem to remember that we don't really understand (or fully understand) why some vaccines last for life and others need boosters are varying intervals even when the issues experienced with influenza are absent.

I'd bet that there is going to be a huge surge of interest from students trying to study to get into immunology/virology post-pandemic. And why not? You could literally be saving the world in some cases.

 

[Wibble]

Actually HPV vaccine works better than infection at giving you immunity. Although I think that’s down to a fairly unique way it evades your immune system, rather than a waning response.

I think that is my favorite vaccine.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

No. I just seem to remember reading that somewhere - could be remembering wrong.

Flu is an odd one though because I think it is the large number of true strains, that each require a re-jigged vaccine component, that is the cause (or main cause) of the relatively low effectiveness. Include the right strains in your vaccine and the effectiveness is great but don't and it is rubbish. Plus the flu evolves quickly.

I also seem to remember that we don't really understand (or fully understand) why some vaccines last for life and others need boosters are varying intervals even when the issues experienced with influenza are absent.

I'd bet that there is going to be a huge surge of interest from students trying to study to get into immunology/virology post-pandemic. And why not? You could literally be saving the world in some cases.

At the very least, if my immunology prof from Uni is anything to go by, you could be appearing on Tv/radio on an almost daily basis from start to finish of the next pandemic!

 

[hmchan]

I’m not actually sure. The effectiveness of the vaccine tends to correlate with the effectiveness of natural immunity. Hence you only catch measles once and only need to be vaccinated against it once. While you need to be vaccinated against influenza multiple times and can catch it every year. Could be wrong though. Any specific vaccines you’re thinking of?

The simple answer is: it varies. Immune system varies significantly among individuals and this includes immune responses. HBV vaccines theoretically provide very long term protection (almost lifetime), but I found my antibody level very low last year and needed a booster dose.

Influenza vaccines, however, are not really an accurate example. The major reason we need them multiple times is that flu virus undergoes drift and shift mutations very rapidly.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/05/health/covid-natural-immunity.html

 

[Tony Babangida]

And why not?

Science funding is still crap. Short term contracts etc. Already way too many PhDs to postdoc jobs. Much better off studying medicine if you want to do research. Not that I’m bitter haha

 

[Wibble]

Science funding is still crap. Short term contracts etc. Already way too many PhDs to postdoc jobs. Much better off studying medicine if you want to do research. Not that I’m bitter haha

Some things never change. I quit halfway through my PhD because the best offer in my field post qualification was a 1 year contract as an Associate lecturer, which was peanuts at the time and then I'd still have had to find my own research funds or piggy back on my supervisor and associates - which is far from certain funding. Add on to that 20+ weeks away in the field on top of a full teaching load when my son was a toddler and I politely declined and returned my scholarship.

I was informally offered a place in a postgrad medicine degree in my mid 40's but the idea of very little income for the 7+ years or more if you wanted to specialise wasn't attractive at that age.

 

[africanspur]

Out of interest, are they going to be running this like a clinical trial? As in, are they committed to collecting data on everyone vaccinated on this different schedule? Did they sign you up to any kind of observational study? They should have.

Nope, because it wasn't planned. Literally until the day before my 2nd dose was due, my trust was still planning on giving it (against the new government guidance) and I think only changed tack due to significant pressure from higher up.

Whether they're collecting a bit more data now on a societal scale, I'm not sure. I've personally not heard anything like that but perhaps scientists are doing that in some parts of the country?

Like you said, we really should, especially if we're going so far off licence.

I also wonder whether the government is opening itself up to legal action in the future here.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

City AM: Astrazeneca delays vaccine delivery to EU

And more from the FT here: EU hit by delay to Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine delivery

 

[Pogue Mahone]

City AM: Astrazeneca delays vaccine delivery to EU

And more from the FT here: EU hit by delay to Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine delivery

I get the sense you really enjoy posting bad news re the EU! Wouldn’t be too worried about this tbh. I remain to be convinced it’s a good vaccine. At the very least we need a better idea how it should be dosed. Hopefully have more data by the time we start injecting.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

I get the sense you really enjoy posting bad news re the EU! Wouldn’t be too worried about this tbh. I remain to be convinced it’s a good vaccine. At the very least we need a better idea how it should be dosed. Hopefully have more data by the time we start injecting.

Haha, it's the top story on the FT right now! Honest, guv.

 

[Sweet Square]

 

[Ecstatic]

No public transport means affordable real estate, I presume.

 

[11101]

City AM: Astrazeneca delays vaccine delivery to EU

And more from the FT here: EU hit by delay to Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine delivery

Good! I'd much rather have one of the more effective ones.