Because they're always hiding. You can't just say "well if they're not looking I won't say anything", it's your job to say it and try to catch people's attention.
Keir Starmer Labour Leader
- Thread starter Damien
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Because they're always hiding. You can't just say "well if they're not looking I won't say anything", it's your job to say it and try to catch people's attention.
Could he not have offered a different take on those events?
He's found something to rally around.
Keir Starmer puts nurses’ pay row at heart of election campaign
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...elections-scotland-wales-nurses-b1815362.html
Keir Starmer puts nurses’ pay row at heart of election campaign
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...elections-scotland-wales-nurses-b1815362.html
She says she's being clear but I can't really find any coherent message in the jumbled words she is spitting out... have I missed something?
As someone who voted for Labour in spite of Jeremy Corbyns... is this really better than it was under Jeremy Corbyns?
As someone who voted for Labour in spite of Jeremy Corbyns... is this really better than it was under Jeremy Corbyns?
Also funny how the party only listens to polling when it's in favour of right wing topics
Given their strategy (which i don't agree with) i think it makes some sense. It's the usual we don't really propose anything we're just here for the gotchas.
If the government hadn't previously stated 2.1% i don't think Labour would even challenge the pitiful 1% rise.
They'll end up in a situation where everyone finds them annoying and hollow going into a campaign. Outside of a Tory feck up or a magnificent late campaign which isn't beyond possibility it'll be a low turnout GE and Tory win.
State of it. "if you listen to voters..." Pretty sure that Nurses getting a 5% pay rise in their mainfesto isn't what turned people away from Labour. You don't have to bin the whole thing just because you got wiped out. Christ the Tories have stolen half of it themselves.These people just don't get it do they. They continually bring a knife to a gun fight and wonder why they keep losing.
These people just don't get it do they. They continually bring a knife to a gun fight and wonder why they keep losing.
she looks like she has two sets of eyebrows!
Now I can't unsee that.
Raynes is normally quite vocal. She has been truly indoctrinated (or subdued) into the cult of Keir and become a fence sitter.
Such a poor overarching strategy for the opposition.
Her defence about the 2019 manifesto is horrible, suggesting the public rejected a 5% pay rise for nurses along with the rest of its policy agenda, but the presenter can't realistically hold people to 2019 spending plans given how the debt situation has changed so drastically.
Yep. Making the mistake of blaming the manifesto for 2019s loss, when actually that was the one thing they should've kept!
These people just don't get it do they. They continually bring a knife to a gun fight and wonder why they keep losing.
They are totally ignoring the BREXIT factor and also the various Corbyn smear campaigns which combined to make 2019 a failure.
If I could be arsed I'd knock up that Simpsons Skinner meme.
"Is it me that's out of touch?"
"No it's the manifesto that's wrong"
"Is it me that's out of touch?"
"No it's the manifesto that's wrong"
It's amazing to spend ages complaining about the single issue of competency for so long only to be more incompetent than your predecessor on every issue.
On the yougov tracker less than half think he should stay on as leader. There's been a collapse across every category and age too.
Sorry but this is laughable, your last strategy pretty much wiped labour out as an opposition force. The hole labour is in, is the hole you dug mate. Your side doesn’t have the credibility to carry the argument, so how about we let COVID pass and then see if labours chances of getting a hearing improve?
I don't think Labour made a demand for a certain amount, just for an increase on the 1%. So what part of that is outflanking?
If the Tories had infiltrated Labour and were controlling things through a puppet leader would they do anything different than Starmer?
Which was one of his problems. It was easy for the Tories to characterise him as an idealistic, radical hell bent on ripping everything up.
I like unions, I've stood on picket lines, hell I've even worked for a union, but I think the assessment that the public as large is scared of them is probably accurate and I don't think it's a terrible strategic move to not have Starmer pictured on a picket line.
But that's where the problems start, because you have to balance that with advocating for the things Unions want, for workers rights, for fair pay, for safer working conditions and so on and throughout the crisis Labour have failed.
What we were promised was a Labour party that was still transformational, but was smarter and slicker with its messaging. Less scary talk about being radical, more smart suits and slick photo ops. Instead, we got a Labour party paralysed with fear, scared to say anything lest they be accused of having principles or an opinion on anything and more concerned about the blows the conservatives can inflict on them than on landing meaningful hits on the Tories themselves. It's pathetic.
I can’t see how Labour can win a GE under Starmer. SKSs’ Labour Party doesn’t stand for anything. It’s not disruptive. It’s not winning hearts and minds.
The Conservatives are the establishment. They are the “go-to” vote at the polling station for those who aren’t politically-minded. That’s not meant in a negative “people who vote Tory don’t understand Politics” kind of way, it’s meant in the sense that they have successfully positioned themselves in the minds of the average member of the GenPop as their default vote.
Labour need to do something to change that, which is why, despite him being ridiculed for it, I understand what Corbyn meant when he said Labour “won the argument” under his leadership.
It felt like people had started to see things differently because an alternative was being presented. Sure, it was an unpalatable alternative for many 50+ voters, but it was almost universally popular with young people. Even allowing for the fact that people get more Conservative as they get older, the numbers were staggering, particularly amongst under 35s.
Since this is a football forum, I’d say it can be compared to what Ole is doing at Utd now. Short term success? Nope. Some pain along the way? Yes. Scorn for the establishment? Yes. Critics amongst traditional supporter base? Yes. But ultimately doing the right things at the right time in the right way to build a real identity and platform for future success.
Starmer doesn’t do that for me and I highly doubt the next time crowds gather there will be any “woah Starmer” chanting!
The Conservatives are the establishment. They are the “go-to” vote at the polling station for those who aren’t politically-minded. That’s not meant in a negative “people who vote Tory don’t understand Politics” kind of way, it’s meant in the sense that they have successfully positioned themselves in the minds of the average member of the GenPop as their default vote.
Labour need to do something to change that, which is why, despite him being ridiculed for it, I understand what Corbyn meant when he said Labour “won the argument” under his leadership.
It felt like people had started to see things differently because an alternative was being presented. Sure, it was an unpalatable alternative for many 50+ voters, but it was almost universally popular with young people. Even allowing for the fact that people get more Conservative as they get older, the numbers were staggering, particularly amongst under 35s.
Since this is a football forum, I’d say it can be compared to what Ole is doing at Utd now. Short term success? Nope. Some pain along the way? Yes. Scorn for the establishment? Yes. Critics amongst traditional supporter base? Yes. But ultimately doing the right things at the right time in the right way to build a real identity and platform for future success.
Starmer doesn’t do that for me and I highly doubt the next time crowds gather there will be any “woah Starmer” chanting!
Tbh it's the fault(Although somewhat understandable given the loss in 2019) of the membership in thinking they could have a ''transformational'' politics while also not upsetting the current order of things.
I think the optimism was that you could be radical whilst playing the PR game and being slick. Nationalise the railways, but shag a flag whilst you're doing it sort of thing. Obviously you'll attract media pushback at times, bjt I don't think there's inherently a problem with that idea; Corbyn's Labour had a lot of good ideas which independently polled popularly and you can see why people wanted to square the circle. Perhaps accepting a less radical agenda for the opportunity to put it in to place.
But Starmer's offer is the worst of both worlds. He's not the savvy political operator he needs to be to make it work, and he has no ideas or policy positions of worth or not to fall back on.
If Labour campaigned on ‘shag a flag’ they’d probably win the next GE tbf.
By 20 points?
Agree that it's an understandable idea given the current circumstances but it's also a very naive/utopian type of politics. It's basically wanting all the ''benefits'' of nationalist rhetoric without any of the negatives - more right wing politics. Wanting to a transformative politics but putting in charge knighted lawyer because of flag shaggers.
I don't blame anyone for voting Starmer in the leadership race, the guy clearly ran the best campaign. And at a certain point it's not really the fault of voters that he can dropped all his pledges and turn into a clown. But it's hardly the biggest shock in the world.
Woah, we're half way there!
It may well be, but I'm not necessarily sure. I think to an extent it's more a case of recognising the political circumstances of a country where, unfortunately, a ridiculous amount of people feel insanely proud of the fact we were a bunch of dicks to foreigners 100 years ago and stole a load of shit off of them. I don't have a nationalistic bone in my body, and my idealistic view of politics would be that nobody else does either, but I don't really know how the Labour party can win if they don't try and convince the myriad voters that want to stick flags up their bums that they should vote for them too.
Also, for what it's worth, I know posts like mine don't really help, because I think everyone knows that the left wing don't like nationalism and attempts to flag shag are always going to come across as a bit hollow.
20 points ahead
Oh yeah there's plenty of people who won't vote for anyone who thinks sky net mega death is a bad thing and tbh my answer(Some broad social democracy and class appeal)didn't work. Atm I just think Labour regardless of the leader is fecked in terms of winning elections. The electoral road map doesn't favour any type of progressive politics, sadly. You have left politics in the cities with voters under 40(Who rarely turn out in big numbers) and reactionary politics everywhere else with most over 50's. It's one group of older reactionary homer owners holding the political power over younger renters, both groups have such a completely different world view that it's impossible to unite them(Corbyn got close in 2017 but Brexit really accelerated this process).
Yeah the people the party is trying to win over with nationalism, know it's fake.
It's going to get close when the vaccine really kicks in. It's going to be very funny.
the video is 2 or so years old
and the tweet is from the 4th March
but still.....
Aye, you might be right, but the only path I can see to victory is the one Starmer promised, which is why I'm so frustrated by the fact that he was lying to win a leadership election. That might ultimately have failed, but it's better than this approach of letting the Tories run around unopposed for years.
Still blows my mind he said that live on air and continues to be viewed as a sensible political commentator.
The odd thing is keeping to his original leadership bid was the easiest option. He's had to put in a lot of work to alienate this many people already.
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I was only 7 when Blair got into power but wasn’t that part of ‘New’ Labour?
Guessing the original plan was another abstain but yesterday has finally pushed them off the fence.