The key problem always ends up being lack of investment and opportunities for young aspiring players. England had a problem with both and consequently after the "golden generation" the team was lacking. But with some focus on "grass roots" and youth coaching, there has been an influx of good young English players come through in recent years. With sky high transfer prices as well, it may also inadvertently have helped give English players more opportunities as well, because foreign transfers may be deemed as riskier investments, despite the influx of PL revenue.
Republic Of Ireland Football Thread
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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The key problem always ends up being lack of investment and opportunities for young aspiring players. England had a problem with both and consequently after the "golden generation" the team was lacking. But with some focus on "grass roots" and youth coaching, there has been an influx of good young English players come through in recent years. With sky high transfer prices as well, it may also inadvertently have helped give English players more opportunities as well, because foreign transfers may be deemed as riskier investments, despite the influx of PL revenue.
Brian Kerr tonight pointing the finger at Delaney, Ruud Dokter and the old FAI -
“Tonight isn’t just down to Stephen’s faults or the team’s faults,” he said. “This has been coming for a good while.
“This is the fault of a lack of proper player development structure and coaching structure in Ireland for many years. There has been a dearth of talent coming through from the teams.
“Suddenly, Stephen is pouring players through to the senior team from the U21s who aren’t ready.
“And the people who are in charge of that development should seriously be looking at themselves tonight, rather than just criticising the manager.
“We know how the FAI has been run for years and years, but there’s also been other people in charge of player development and the structures in charge of those players. It’s been sticking out for a long time. It’s been sticking out tonight."
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Anyways not many positives, I think the FAI needs a new technical director as Ruud Dokter doesn't seem to be on the ball....
but you fast-forward 2 years from now, hope one or two new faces emerge, and hope that our first XI might develop into side that is watchable again.
Subs - Cullen, O'Dowda, Patrick-Finn of Getafe, Parrot, Connolly, Odubeko, Sotona
“Tonight isn’t just down to Stephen’s faults or the team’s faults,” he said. “This has been coming for a good while.
“This is the fault of a lack of proper player development structure and coaching structure in Ireland for many years. There has been a dearth of talent coming through from the teams.
“Suddenly, Stephen is pouring players through to the senior team from the U21s who aren’t ready.
“And the people who are in charge of that development should seriously be looking at themselves tonight, rather than just criticising the manager.
“We know how the FAI has been run for years and years, but there’s also been other people in charge of player development and the structures in charge of those players. It’s been sticking out for a long time. It’s been sticking out tonight."
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Anyways not many positives, I think the FAI needs a new technical director as Ruud Dokter doesn't seem to be on the ball....
but you fast-forward 2 years from now, hope one or two new faces emerge, and hope that our first XI might develop into side that is watchable again.
Bazunu
Doherty O'Shea Collins Egan Stevens
Knight Molumby Hodge
Idah Delap
Doherty O'Shea Collins Egan Stevens
Knight Molumby Hodge
Idah Delap
Subs - Cullen, O'Dowda, Patrick-Finn of Getafe, Parrot, Connolly, Odubeko, Sotona
The English players have also been greatly improved by the amount of money in the Premier League right now. More money means being able to attract top class coaches and having systems with high levels of professionalism at all levels of the club.
There may not be as many English players coming through as in years past but those that do will have been subject to the best systems to prepare them as top class footballers.
England also has the population and the fact that football is the undisputed number one sport in the country. It would be a miracle if Ireland could compete with that, even if the FAI wasn't run by crooks and wasters.
Surely the Carlsberg player of the match should be a Luxembourg player
Yeah. What a ridiculous decision. It must have been embarrassing for Coleman. I'd imagine that Waterford crystal thing he got or whatever it is these days went into the bin
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The Irish have a good Quidditch team don't they?
Wasn't aware of the result last night. Bloody hell must be one of the lowest points? If this isn't enough to prompt wholesale changes at each level nothing will be.
Looking at the line ups it's unbelievable O'Shea is still the main man at the back (as much as I love him).
Last night Brady, Hendricks, Parrott, McLean, Long were all on the bench? Would have thought they'd play.
Last night Brady, Hendricks, Parrott, McLean, Long were all on the bench? Would have thought they'd play.
Utterly shocking result
In Ireland’s defence, Luxembourg are an improving nation.
The real question here is would they beat a team of Dublin Hurlers.
Why are you a big Dara O’Shea fan?
Thought it was JOS
I heard Stuart Baxter is available
Ray Houghton
I think we have to accept short term pain for long term gain, the problem is it's starting to look like the short time is permanent right now. Kenny needs a big performance out of the lads at this point as he has shown a lot of faith in them and they have been utterly dire.
I had a look through Luxembourg’s results over the last couple of years and looks like they’re no longer the whipping boys I remember them being. They’ve beaten Cyprus, Montenegro and Azerbaijan in the last year and only once lost by more than a single goal over that period. So expecting us to stroll to a morale boosting multiple goal victory was a bit of a pipe dream.
That said, we were really really really bad. Which is more of a worry than the result. And I’m starting to question team selection. We’ve had terrible luck with injuries and covid but when Robbie Brady is fit and available surely he hast to start?
That said, we were really really really bad. Which is more of a worry than the result. And I’m starting to question team selection. We’ve had terrible luck with injuries and covid but when Robbie Brady is fit and available surely he hast to start?
I’ve been alarmed at the amount of people like Kerr pointing the finger at Delaney (who I obviously despise) for last night’s result. It’s 100% on Kenny and the team. What BS from Kerr to say it isn’t Kenny and the team’s fault.
Kerr isn’t absolving Kenny, he is rightly pointing out that the issues run much deeper.
I agree but last night wasn’t the time to bring them up IMO. We all know what happened with Delaney in charge. Just seems like to bring it up last night is somehow trying to excuse the result.
It certainly is a major part of it. That Luxembourg had far more talented forwards than Ireland is an indictment of the players that have been developed on Delaney's watch.
Having a moan about player development makes no sense when you consider how well the U21s have done, under the same manager. If the senior team was matching their results we’d all be delighted. I don’t see how the FAI can be blamed for us having lots of quality 18 to 21 year olds but very few quality 22 to 30 year olds. Other than for their role in losing the biggest talents of that generation to the England national team.
Everyone needs to chill. Once Michael Obafemi recovers from his injury and starts getting regular game-time at club level he is going to become the star of the team. Definitely need to give the manager the rest of the campaign. It's a tough job but I think Kenny will prove his doubters wrong.
I will admit I don't watch Ireland and don't plan on watching any time soon because life is too short. We'll be watchable again eventually though, hope Kenny is allowed all the time he needs and they don't panic and hire another long ball merchant.
I will admit I don't watch Ireland and don't plan on watching any time soon because life is too short. We'll be watchable again eventually though, hope Kenny is allowed all the time he needs and they don't panic and hire another long ball merchant.
We were never going to qualify and this campaign should be used to blood in younger players.
Kenny should have had a more attacking approach to this game, 3 at the back was far too cautious and when we didn't score before half time it just gave the opposition more confidence.
That being said I wouldn't sack Kenny just yet. I don't think spending money on a big name manager is going to make much difference in the grand scheme of things with how poor the squad is.
Kenny should have had a more attacking approach to this game, 3 at the back was far too cautious and when we didn't score before half time it just gave the opposition more confidence.
That being said I wouldn't sack Kenny just yet. I don't think spending money on a big name manager is going to make much difference in the grand scheme of things with how poor the squad is.
3 wins in our last 12 qualifying matches.
2 of those against Gibraltar (who we could only scrape past 1-0 away and 2-0 at home, with the second coming in the 92nd minute and the first being an own goal), 1 against Georgia.
We're just one of those Faroe Island teams now.
2 of those against Gibraltar (who we could only scrape past 1-0 away and 2-0 at home, with the second coming in the 92nd minute and the first being an own goal), 1 against Georgia.
We're just one of those Faroe Island teams now.
I would disagree. The last time Ireland produced young players good enough for the top half of the Premier league was in 1998 when we won the u16 and u18 Euro double under Kerr, 22 years ago.
Delaney takes over in 2004 after forcing Fran Rooney to resign, after constantly undermining him to a point where Rooney can no longer handle being stabbed in the back. Rooney is only too happy to quit with his 500,000 Euro pay off. Delaney takes over and immediately boosts his annual salary by at least 100,000 a year.
Then there's endless infamous stories with how Kerr wanted Don Givens cut from the U21's role for years of poor results, Delaney ignores Kerr's request because he's good pals with Don and wants to surround himself with Yes-men, while ruthlessly getting rid of anyone he saw as a threat.
It was very much a dictatorship for 14 years, and like all dictatorships, those at the top lived the high life, while those at the bottom were mostly ignored. What we are seeing now is the result of years of short term planning, relying on granny-rule players to emerge, quick-fix managers, constantly ignoring the long term, papering over the cracks.
This is the worst squad in terms of quality I have ever seen.
From my own point of view definitely the FAI led by John Delaney played a massive part in the neglect of player development over the last 15 years or so.
If you look past that and you look at how much has gone into underage football and hurling in that time and the professionalism that has evolved in coaching at all levels.
And in a lot of places you have two sports competing for the same pool of players and in some areas it will be three, then you could also add rugby for other areas.
For GAA, the most talented are likely with county development squads from u14 onwards, many of these players will also be playing club soccer which has switched mostly to summer soccer in that time too. With the seasons overlapping more than before it's inevitable that when it comes to a choice the GAA is going to win out for most. You could also add into the mix that the best of them could be playing for club, county and school in 2 of the 3 sports at any one time. That's leaves very little space and time to focus on just one sport to make a real go of it.
Then you have all the scholarships etc for colleges and universities with football and hurling it seems like a no brainer for the most talented to take the path that guarantees a good education and probably inter county football.
From my own point of view definitely the FAI led by John Delaney played a massive part in the neglect of player development over the last 15 years or so.
If you look past that and you look at how much has gone into underage football and hurling in that time and the professionalism that has evolved in coaching at all levels.
And in a lot of places you have two sports competing for the same pool of players and in some areas it will be three, then you could also add rugby for other areas.
For GAA, the most talented are likely with county development squads from u14 onwards, many of these players will also be playing club soccer which has switched mostly to summer soccer in that time too. With the seasons overlapping more than before it's inevitable that when it comes to a choice the GAA is going to win out for most. You could also add into the mix that the best of them could be playing for club, county and school in 2 of the 3 sports at any one time. That's leaves very little space and time to focus on just one sport to make a real go of it.
Then you have all the scholarships etc for colleges and universities with football and hurling it seems like a no brainer for the most talented to take the path that guarantees a good education and probably inter county football.
Remember supporting Ireland at 2002 WC when I just moved here as a kid. The difference in quality is staggering. Island of Ireland seemed to always produce great talent — not 11 first team players but you always had 3-4 players that’d pull you up a level. Now, it’s just absolutely nothing. Weird.
Great documentary tonight on Jack Charlton. He loved Paul McGrath. Dementia is a terrible disease , it must have been very tough on his wife
Very good article. I completely agree. The reaction of the manager and captain is what worried me the most. The self-flagellation doesn't help anyone.
They clearly don’t have more talented forwards that us. Rodrigues plays in Ukraine and that guy on the RW that looked lively is playing for a poor Portuguese team. Both our strikers that started against Serbia play in the PL.
There’s no doubt Delaney and his cronies in the FAI have ruined Irish football. My point is that no matter was in charge of the FAI Ireland should not be losing to Luxembourg at home under any circumstances. End of. To be bringing up Delaney et al is deflection from the players and manager who are responsible for what happened on Saturday.
Who started against Serbia was pretty irrelevant for the Luxembourg game. The goal scorer plays for Dynamo Kiev and plays in the Champions League.
Robinson failed to make the grade at Sheffield United last season and is on course to fail to make the grade at West Brom this season. He'll be back in the Championship next season and it's far from certain he'll be playing regular first team football there.
Collins and Browne are average Championship players. But not to worry, they had Shane Long to come off the bench. That's a striker who hasn't scored an international goal since 2016 and has scored 17 goals in all competitions in the last 5 years.
That Irish squad for Luxembourg was the most lacking in attacking talent that I can ever remember.
If you analyse this from just looking at squad values:
Ireland NT is roughly value at 95,8 M€ at Transfermarkt
Luxembourg NT is valued at 18,375M at TransferMarkt
One would say that it was a shocking and terrible result. But looking a bit deeper:
Luxembourg clubs are improving on UEFA competitions results, which shows that they are investing something in their national leagues. It doesn't take much to create a competitive league if there is local talent. Look at Croatia: they have 4M people and they have a competitive team in several sports, from football to basketball.
Something must be done to harvest the talent.
Ireland NT is roughly value at 95,8 M€ at Transfermarkt
Luxembourg NT is valued at 18,375M at TransferMarkt
One would say that it was a shocking and terrible result. But looking a bit deeper:
| 35 | Luxembourg | 0,750 | 0,875 | 2,625 | 3,000 | 1,000 | 8,250 | 4 |
| 37 | Ireland | 2,625 | 1,125 | 1,000 | 1,250 | 1,875 | 7,875 | 4 |
Luxembourg clubs are improving on UEFA competitions results, which shows that they are investing something in their national leagues. It doesn't take much to create a competitive league if there is local talent. Look at Croatia: they have 4M people and they have a competitive team in several sports, from football to basketball.
Something must be done to harvest the talent.
At least we have a friendly against Qatar to look forward to. Surely we can score a load of goals against them? I mean, who have they beaten recently?
Oh. They beat Luxembourg... ah feck...
Oh. They beat Luxembourg... ah feck...
Ireland are world champions at hurling and Gaelic football, mate.
Any decent young player would be snatched up by English sides when theyre young before the league sees any improvement. Plus theres a lot of back and forth emigrating between us so any overly talented youngester who has any English roots will be snatched up anyway. One of Englands highest rated youngsters is the son of an Irish international ffs.
Lets be honest, GAA is the number 1 sport here. Thats where our athletes go. Id even argue Rugby would run football close.
Liam Delap?
His father (Rory) wasn’t born in Ireland either so it’s not that extraordinary that Liam himself may opt to play with England if selected.
Totally agree with your point on the GAA, though. It has by far the greatest number of players from all sports played on the island and by far diminishes the talent pool from which footballers can emerge. I don’t see this ever changing either. If anything, there are more participants in GAA now than there’s ever been. (And the switch to “summer soccer” has actually made the problem worse as football clubs are now in direct competition with the peak of the GAA season.) A visit to a local Cúl camp any summer over the last 5-10 years will tell you all you need to know. Football summer camps are sparsely attended in comparison and this is the age-group which needs to be targeted if you wish to develop top-level footballers 10+ years later.
Probably the most popular sport over there, so fair enough.
NOrdic countries face similar challenges: a lot of norwegian/swedish kids leave the country before playing a single match at pro level. BUt as you and others mention, the best irish athletes probably prefer to join rugby and Gaelic football, which leaves football with the guys who failed at those sports. SImilar problem to US Soccer, but with a lower population.
Can’t speak for the whole of Ireland but that’s definitely not the case in Dublin where soccer summer camps are incredibly popular for younger kids.
The big problem in Dublin isn’t GAA anyway. It’s rugby. And the competition for talent start later than you describe. Once they reach their teens the most talented athletes tend to get seduced by the appeal of a straightforward path to a professional sports career without needing to leave home and live in the UK. All for a miniscule chance of becoming a professional footballer.
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