Which neither of those two are. Any sale we make would represent a profit. They're no more deadwood than Levitt or Puigmal.
James Robson: Man Utd have left Ole with a bloated & imbalanced squad wasting over £1m p/w in wages
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Not sure how Mata and Matic are classified as deadwood when no replacements have come in. Mata is one of the few creatives that we have that is on same wavelength as Bruno, Pogba, VDB and is clearly respected in the dressing room. Matic is the only defensive midfielder we have in the club who has an ounce of the Carrick vibe.
Romero is only a deadwood because we have decided on Henderson, but ideally he deserves to have played more too (would rather we sold de gea for a high fee and kept Romero).
Romero is only a deadwood because we have decided on Henderson, but ideally he deserves to have played more too (would rather we sold de gea for a high fee and kept Romero).
How’s Pereira’s loan move at Lazio going? Doesn’t help when academy players are underperforming, what profit do you expect on his sale, not much.
The wastage on wages during the Woodward era has been horrific, we are not quite in the Madrid levels of wastage but pretty close.
Of course they should. If I had come through the ranks and was sat on the bench earning 50K per week, I would be 100% deadwood as I am not good enough for the squad.
It's great to bring average players through the academy to earn some money and give players a career but they are still surplus to requirements for Utd (deadwood)
I went through the wiki pages and tabulated how the shirt numbers have changed in the first team since Fergie's final year to see how the team has changed over the years. LvG's years look funny.
| Nos. | Nov 2012 | Dec 2013 | Dec 2014 | Dec 2015 | Dec 2016 | Dec 2017 | Dec 2018 | Dec 2019 | Present- |
| 1 | De Gea | De Gea | De Gea | De Gea | De Gea | De Gea | De Gea | De Gea | De Gea |
| 2 | Rafael | Rafael | Rafael | Lindelof | Lindelof | Lindelof | Lindelof | ||
| 3 | Evra | Evra | Shaw | Bailly | Bailly | Bailly | Bailly | Bailly | |
| 4 | Jones | Jones | Jones | Jones | Jones | Jones | Jones | Jones | Jones |
| 5 | Ferdinand | Ferdinand | Rojo | Rojo | Rojo | Rojo | Maguire | Maguire | |
| 6 | Evans | Evans | Evans | Pogba | Pogba | Pogba | Pogba | Pogba | |
| 7 | Valencia | Di Maria | Depay | Depay | Sanchez | Sanchez (L) | Cavani | ||
| 8 | Anderson | Anderson | Mata | Mata | Mata | Mata | Mata | Mata | Mata |
| 9 | Falcao | Martial | Zlatan | Lukaku | Lukaku | Martial | Martial | ||
| 10 | Rooney | Rooney | Rooney | Rooney | Rooney | Zlatan | Rashford | Rashford | Rashford |
| 11 | Giggs | Giggs | Januzaj | Januzaj (L) | Martial | Martial | Martial | Greenwood | |
| 12 | Smalling | Smalling | Smalling | Smalling | Smalling | Smalling | Smalling | Smalling (L) | |
| 13 | Lindegaard | Lindegaard | Lindegaard | Grant | Grant | Grant | |||
| 14 | Hernandez | Hernandez | Hernandez (L) | Lingard | Lingard | Lingard | Lingard | Lingard (L) | |
| 15 | Vidic | Vidic | Januzaj (L) | A. Pereira (L) | A. Pereira | A. Pereira | A. Pereira (L) | ||
| 16 | Carrick | Carrick | Carrick | Carrick | Carrick | Carrick | Rojo | Rojo | |
| 17 | Nani | Nani | Blind | Blind | Blind | Blind | Fred | Fred | Fred |
| 18 | Young | Young | Young | Young | Young | Young | Young | Young | Bruno |
| 19 | Welbeck | Welbeck | Wilson (L) | Rashford | Rashford | Diallo | |||
| 20 | van Persie | van Persie | van Persie | Romero | Romero | Romero | Dalot | Dalot | Dalot (L) |
| 21 | Henriquez | Henriquez (L) | Herrera | Herrera | Herrera | Herrera | Herrera | James | James |
| 22 | Scholes | Fabio | Powell (L) | Powell | Mkhitaryan | Mkhitaryan | Romero | Romero | Romero |
| 23 | Cleverley | Cleverley | Cleverley (L) | Shaw | Shaw | Shaw | Shaw | Shaw | Shaw |
| 24 | Fletcher | Fletcher | Fletcher | Fosu-Mensah | Fosu-Mensah (L) | Fosu-Mensah (L) | Fosu-Mensah | ||
| 25 | Powell | Valencia | Valencia | Valencia | Valencia | Valencia | Valencia | ||
| 26 | Kagawa | Kagawa | Greenwood | Henderson | |||||
| 27 | Macheda | Macheda (L) | Fellaini | Fellaini | Fellaini | Fellaini | Telles | ||
| 28 | Buttner | Buttner | Anderson | Schneiderlin | Schneiderlin | Gomes | Pellistri (L) | ||
| 29 | Zaha | Zaha (L) | Wan-Bissaka | Wan-Bissaka | |||||
| 30 | Varela | Varela (L) | Varela | ||||||
| 31 | Fellaini | Fellaini | Schweinsteiger | Schweinsteiger | Matic | Matic | Matic | Matic | |
| 32 | Powell (L) | Johnstone | Johnstone (L) | ||||||
| 33 | Bebe | Bebe (L) | McNair | McNair | Williams | ||||
| 34 | L. Cole | van de Beek | |||||||
| 35 | Lingard (L) | Lingard | Lingard | ||||||
| 36 | Vermijl | Darmian | Darmian | Darmian | Darmian | ||||
| 37 | Janko | Garner | Garner (L) | ||||||
| 38 | M. Keane | M. Keane (L) | M. Keane (L) | Tunzebe | Tuanzebe | Tuanzebe | Tuanzebe (L) | Tuanzebe | Tuanzebe |
| 39 | T. Thorpe | Rashford | McTominay | McTominay | McTominay | McTominay | |||
| 40 | Amos (L) | Amos (L) | Amos | J. Pereira | J. Pereira (L) | J. Pereira | |||
| 41 | R. James (L) | ||||||||
| 42 | Blackett | Blackett (L) | |||||||
| 43 | B.-Jackson (L) | B.-Jackson (L) | B.-Jackson (L) | Mengi | |||||
| 44 | Januzaj | A. Pereira | A. Pereira | A. Pereira (L) | Chong | Chong (L) | |||
| 45 | Sean Goss | ||||||||
| 46 | |||||||||
| 47 | |||||||||
| 48 | W. Keane | ||||||||
| 49 | Wilson | ||||||||
| 50 | Johnstone | Johnstone | Johnstone | ||||||
| ~ | |||||||||
| 74 | Shoretire |
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Undoubtedly. With De Gea likely going in the summer and Mata out of contract, there should be wiggle room to pay the wages for top talent.
Matic's contract extension till 2023 at his age seems to have been a mistake, but hell maybe he'll have something to teach the next DM that comes in. The guy's apparently a core part of the squad's culture and discipline, even if his legs are gone.
Mata doesn't have a three-year deal. The club are triggering a single-year extension in his existing contract. Not sure it's worth keeping him, but it makes a lot more sense than Matic's three-year deal.
Great stuff Ole.
I keep seeing people say this, but I just don't see how that happens. Even if we gave him a free transfer, who needs a keeper and can afford his wages?
Watching RM, PSG... not sure their keeper situation is that secure
To get the wages reduced by that amount is impressive by not just Ole, but the footballing staff higher up, probably Murtough.
Real have much bigger targets (Mbappe, Haaland) and 100% won't be throwing cash at DDG. PSG is the only club I can see who might be interested - but even there I'm hugely sceptical. I think we're stuck with him, personally.
If that is with a 25% non Champions League wage reduction, it’s pretty funny seeing all these posts congratulating Ole.
We’ve cut a lot of deadwood, but I don’t really know if we’ve saved a huge amount in wages. We’ve still been paying a huge amount for Sanchez and had Bruno, VDB, Maguire, AWB, Ighalo, Cavani come in. Plus the contract renewals of the likes of DDG, Henderson etc.
I’d imagine we’re spending very much the same as we would have been in 19/20 with CL football. Clearly we’re on the way to a better squad, so there’s absolutely credit to be given, but probably not in the way people are reading those figures.
We’ve cut a lot of deadwood, but I don’t really know if we’ve saved a huge amount in wages. We’ve still been paying a huge amount for Sanchez and had Bruno, VDB, Maguire, AWB, Ighalo, Cavani come in. Plus the contract renewals of the likes of DDG, Henderson etc.
I’d imagine we’re spending very much the same as we would have been in 19/20 with CL football. Clearly we’re on the way to a better squad, so there’s absolutely credit to be given, but probably not in the way people are reading those figures.
I find this difficult to believe
We've been in this is situation before of overpaying wages and still managed to move the player on.
Once you start dropping a big name they find a way to leave. Happened with Rooney, Sanchez and it'll happen with De Gea. He's not going to sit on the bench for the rest of his time here. He'll take a drop in wages, move so he can start and more than likely be somewhere that suits his family situation.
I have a feeling Matic and Matas experience is seriously underrated in here - think about how few experienced players we have - so I think its good to have a few players like that around the club. Or put in simpler terms - I think their importance to the club is bigger in the locker room than on the pitch
PSG after the Keylor Navas s**t show last night.
I watched PSG lose to City yesterday - do I need to explain where I am going with this ?
Matic plays less and less. The more he games he plays in a row the worse he gets but is pretty dependable when called upon, and seemingly a good senior figure. Same with Mata. He doesnt play a lot and I dont think he suits a starting spot in our first 11 and style of play but when he does play he is a quality intelligent footballer. He has 11 apps this season, with 3 assists and 2 goals. He had 37 with 7 assists and 3 goals last year. And not all of those apps are starts.
Experience is over rated personally. It's obviously helpful to the young lads that want advice for the future, but it won't help you win a football match.
The wage bill will be reduced further once De Gea is moved on, along with his £375k a week wages, which is costing the club almost £20m a year. Ole's decision to make Henderson #1, will hopefully quicken the departure of De Gea from the club.
And this isn't about congratulating Ole or being impressed with his work in reducing the wage bill. This is just normal for a manager who comes in and provides stability and continuity due to his broader outlook on the playing squad and long term planning. Which was almost non existent under Mourinho due to him being more concerned about his CV/resume, rather than the long-term health of the club.
I want the likes of Mata and Matic moved on too. But maybe Ole is thinking that both players provide experience in the dressing room which is very important for a team that has a number of young players that need guidance when confidence is low.
And this isn't about congratulating Ole or being impressed with his work in reducing the wage bill. This is just normal for a manager who comes in and provides stability and continuity due to his broader outlook on the playing squad and long term planning. Which was almost non existent under Mourinho due to him being more concerned about his CV/resume, rather than the long-term health of the club.
I want the likes of Mata and Matic moved on too. But maybe Ole is thinking that both players provide experience in the dressing room which is very important for a team that has a number of young players that need guidance when confidence is low.
TBF, they got trophies for their wastage. We got the entire footballing world (executives/agents) knowing that Woodward was completely incompetent and out of his depth and hence agents/rival execs exploiting us - again, to the point where it would have looked weak not to do so. That last part is the real problem.
The average person still has very little idea how bad Woodward has been for the organization. People who knew what they were looking at were mortified (if you cared for the club) or utterly besides themselves with disbelief and glee (if you were a competitor) when Woodward started getting public exposure around 2013 and his personality became clear. Likewise, any competent competitor to Manchester United absolutely could not believe their luck that someone as inept as him had been put in charge of such a formerly unstoppable juggernaut.
For them, it was very much akin to something out of the movies, like when the stupid villain inherits daddy's fortune due to a mistake (and the hero then has to go on and reclaim it)
We have that non-CL wage cut clause don’t we? So at the very least ours will be 20-25% higher again this year.
Plus we’ve added Henderson’s new deal along with Van de Beek and Cavani.
Yes. Our wages were cut and theirs were at the highest due to PL win. There's no way there can be a £40m difference on a normal season i'm sure of that.
I imagine it's closer than ever though.
Yep the 'reduction' likely won't be as dramatic as made out here over the last few posts.
When a club has a model whereby they have the first team coach heading the recruitment department at the club. Then the decisions of said coach are reflective of the job he's done. In our case, LVG and Mourinho were awful appointments and set us back many many years.
Well, you're wrong on that one. People who have "been there and done that" is always valuable for any organization. Especially when you're trying to achieve something that most of the other people in the organization haven't done before.
You can't compare an organization to sport.
If experience was so important then everybody would be playing 30/40 year olds.
Yes it can come in handy to deal with pressure and expectation, but on pitch performance is rarely improved by it.
Matic is our most experienced midfielder but the worst option of the lot.
it’s a balance - and no it’s not always valuable.
experience can come with pre conceived ideas, which is not helpful. Experience can limit an organisation.
Just look at the likes of Jose from a managerial perspective. He was successful when he had energy, passion and new ideas. He now has 20 years of experience but is outdated, no passion and no drive to be successful.
A sports team IS an organization, and the performance on the pitch is affected by everyone in that organization. The tea lady, the manager, the substitutes, the sporting director, the kit man are all doing their job so that the players on the pitch can perform to their maximum. The role of the experienced heads like Matic and Mata is to guide the younger players. You know they train and socialize together? Their job is also to fill in when the first team is rested and bring experience on the pitch when the "reserves" are playing, and might be exactly what|s needed to win even though your star players are resting.
Seems by your post that your outlook on how things work is kind of narrow.
Experience is always valuable, but I agree that there is a balance to be struck. Experience is not the same as being set in your ways by the way. I believe the role of the experienced players has a lot to do with psychology. How to get through tough games and deal with pressure. Mata nad Matic are obviously kept for their personal skills, not their physique. Other experienced players have been let go.
Sounds like you've never played football in your life to me personally.
Experience can help with decision making and pressure situations, but it'll never make up for physical ability that somebody younger and fitter might have.
Matic is more valuable off the pitch.
Have I argued otherwise?
This actually reminded me of a sports psychologist who spoke to all the workers at my company about 10-12 years ago. He had worked closely with Sven Goran Eriksson for many years and he told a story from when Svennis was the manager of Lazio in 1999.
Before that season he signed Attilio Lombardo - and Svennis was almost ridiculed in the press for signing Lombardo who was 33 years old and according to most people, well past it. Lazio won the title - and the psychologist told us that a few weeks afterwards he had a meeting with Svennis and simply asked him - why did you sign Lombardo ?
Svennis response was: Because everyone thinks he is so fun to be around.
Before that season he signed Attilio Lombardo - and Svennis was almost ridiculed in the press for signing Lombardo who was 33 years old and according to most people, well past it. Lazio won the title - and the psychologist told us that a few weeks afterwards he had a meeting with Svennis and simply asked him - why did you sign Lombardo ?
Svennis response was: Because everyone thinks he is so fun to be around.
That’s really not hard though. So is Jones…
Heh. I’d imagine Deschamps would have similar admissions about certain players who made the WC squad despite France swimming in elite talent in near every position waiting in reserve.
Well yes, otherwise what was your original point then? I said it won't help on the pitch and would off it?
We need some experienced heads around the place.
If Mata is happy to play a bit part role then great. He's a top professional, seen and won a lot in the game - brilliant to have around the young players. Matic too.