We are both retired.
Keir Starmer Labour Leader
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
We are both retired.
So you've voted for another party because you think that Labour councillors are entirely responsible for all of your town's issues. I can understand that feeling even if I disagree with the culpability.
The bit I don't get is why you think the Tories of all people are going to fix anything. They've had over a decade to make things better, but all I've seen is that things are worse. High streets dying because they haven't held the likes of Amazon accountable, public services closed down while huge amounts of public money go to their party pals. Reports of sleeze are rampant. Effects of Brexit forcing businesses to stop exports and scale back expansion plans or open branches overseas instead. How can these possibly be the people to fix our problems? These things are much more important than railing against 'woke' labour voters.
And who should replace him?
You are missing the point, I think. Labour should field a more authentically local candidate.
Bang on.
In an ideal world, Andy Burnham would be a great replacement... but he's Manchester mayor. I think he will lead the party one day if he wants to.
I mean, you can blame potholes outside your parents house all you want but you kinda reveal your true colours here.
You're coming across as a bit brainwashed tbh. This strange obsession with 'wokeness' is quite telling.
Diane Abbott.
So it's not a general point that applies to the average person? I doubt there are a great many retired people paying that much council tax, just people who own a fairly expensive house that puts them in one of the highest bands. Most people aren't as fortunate.
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That would be amazing for the lols.
Who replaces him though? Labour's problems aren't solely down to the leader. Not that I'm standing up for Starmer, I think he's been absolutely shit.
My local went Tory. Why do young torys have a certain look...they all look the same.
can you explain why me and many like me should bust our balls and be expected to pay my mortage, council tax, the whole hog and get nothing in return? Then people get the same for nothing. Under the tories the handouts have decreased. At least they dont pretend to care. Ultimately thats whats turned heads. I havent always voted torie but the blind loyalty to ‘working mans labour’ is gone.
Now why didn't I think of that. I know, I am not drunk..
Have a drive through Hale, and Hale Barnes, two of the wealthiest towns outside London. Tory run for years. Then come back and tell me that voting Conservative gives you a nice smooth ride in your car.
Also, I don't get why people want to be able to fill two bins full of shit every week instead of one. I've never had a problem with fortnightly collections, and that's even when bringing up two small kids in disposable nappies. It's also how it's done I literally every part of the country. Recycle maybe?
Nothing in return? No free health service, no free education? No police and fire service? No benefits if you get ill or lose your job? You didn't get any of that?
Believe what? I've asked you why you previously voted Labour given your grievances have been the same ones raised for decades?
It simply doesn't make sense so you must have had some reason.
If anything the handouts have increased. Just to people that don't need them.I mean you're paying a mortgage so that you can own a house right? There's a hell of a lot of people that can't even get on the property ladder.
Council Tax pays for a lot of different services. You should educate yourself on what they are.
Tories provide all of that
I said in an earlier post i guess that there was a blind loyalty effect and its gone
Those 'moronic Tory attack lines' are precisely the ones that have motivated people in Hartlepool to stop voting Labour and start voting Tory. The evidence is right before your eyes ; ie Labour just got stuffed by Tories spouting precisely these lines in Hartlepool.
It's self evident that the way to eat out the heart of Labour support is to beat the nationalism drum, tickle a person's xenophobia and point to the local council as the source of the rest of their discontent. It's persuasive. People have obviously been persuaded. The proof is in the pudding - ever growing Tory presence in erstwhile Labour heartlands. Why would you be surprised when you ask these voters for their reasons if they then justify themselves with a regurgitation of obviously successful Tory attack lines? To me it's precisely this cohort of voters that are most likely to spout such things.
It seems to me the tories know labours voters better than labour do. Out of touch as it gets
So given your list don't you just think you've realised you're a Tory? You can blame a shift in Labour but it's not that as all of your accusations have applied for decades on decades.
So yeah they've lost your vote and i imagine many other Northerners but it's far more to do with the fact that there isn't the northern towns automatically voting Labour dynamic.
Oddly now more than ever the Tories deserve disdain but this started with Blair and Brown and immigration. Labour dared to pass judgment on bigotry.
We are utterly fecked as a country
This is why they are doomed.
Hardly - these elections came at a great time for the government given the vaccine roll-out which has been amazing, and Corbyn was a massive turn-off for voters.
But there are loads of other issues at play too. Depending on the side of the Labour divide you're on, you'll pick the ones that fit your narrative. In honesty, there's an element of truth to them all. It's why they're so fecked.
Who was in before? Thought Saddleworth always tended towards Lib Dem or Tory.
I've heard tiny minded little racist Tories spouting this shit for 25 years. They were never Labour supporters, always Tories.
Ideally Andy Burnham but I'd happily take Clive Lewis as well.
Correct... Corbyn will hang over Labour for years to come.
Andy Burnham or Clive Lewis.
Saddleworth North was Lib Dem (Garth Harkness). It's now gone Tory under Luke Lancaster. Lib Dem Gained West and Lees from Labour. Saddleworth South was held by the Torys.
Corbyn won Hartlepool twice both with big margins.
To be fair... they know them because these are exactly the people they have brainwashed along with their cheerleaders in the media.
You rail against 'wokism' but you could do with some in reality. You are the Daily Mail's wet dream. Someone who will swallow whatever they say and thank them for it... 'please Sir, can I have some more'.
Carry on in your bubble if that gives you comfort. These results were all about Starmer
Whoever is in power provides that, but it is utterly irrelevant to your previous point. You envy people on benefits. I'd love to see you swap circumstances with someone living on benefits to be honest, as you obviously have no idea how lucky you are.
It's probably a bit of both to be fair. Corbyn has definitely had an impact on some labour supporters and the decisions taken during that time are going to have an impact for years to come on some voters.
It's worth remembering that there hasn't been a more left orientated PM for around 45 years now. I think that's a shame, but it's not a recent development in politics.
You were complaining that 80% of your council tax goes on welfare, now you’re saying that people are getting free handouts. Next you’ll be blaming immigrants.
Maybe you need to have a think about why people need this kind of support. It couldn’t be that (Tory) government policies are continually punishing the worst off and do nothing to actually solving the root cause of these issues.
Take housing benefit, which I’m assuming is something you’re talking about? How is it possible that a family with two low paid parents, probably a mother working part time if the kid is old enough, can afford expensive private renting costs? A family home in my area costs over £1k a month before any bills. Even an average wage of say £26k is going to struggle with that, let alone those who earn well below it.
Yet you’re saying they just need to work harder. Isn’t it more about the lack of social or affordable housing, or the inability for so many young people to get on the housing ladder?