Abortion

KirkDuyt said:
Ironically, the Rick Santorums of the world seem to think infidels have abortions for fun and use then as a substitute for a condom. That's the most shocking thing about the pro "life" crowd. They always seem to forget the abortion has by far the most affect on the person having it. Fecking cnuts.
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Rick Sanotorum and his ilk are the best justification for extending the abortion limit to over 1000 weeks from fertilisation imo.
 
VorZakone said:
Boy, this is a shocking thread. Just read these comments.

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Imagine thinking a parasite had more rights than its host.

And imagine thinking that a ‘baby’ is ‘murdered’ during an abortion.

Sorry, you are simply severely mentally deficient if you embrace these two idiocies.
 
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calodo2003 said:
This is yet another example of why abortion access should be expanded. No one should be having a kid at 16 years old or younger...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crim...shot-with-a-real-gun/ar-AAKCsGF?ocid=msedgntp
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16 is the age of consent here in the UK and while I wouldn't recommend having a child at that age I wouldn't say that it is the end of the world for the mum when it does happen.

What are the abortion rights compared to the UK? We don't have much of a debate about abortion on this side of the pond but maybe that is because we are not religious nuts?
 
I’m pro-choice for loads of reasons but I do think the 24 week cut off we have in the UK is a bit late.
 
calodo2003 said:
Imagine thinking a parasite had more rights than its host.

And imagine thinking that a ‘baby’ is ‘murdered’ during an abortion.

Sorry, you are simply severely mentally deficient if you embrace these two idiocies.
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And imagine comparing human life in the womb to a parasite. Oh wait.
 
Kinsella said:
And imagine comparing human life in the womb to a parasite. Oh wait.
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Think scientifically speaking a fetus does act like a parasite on a biological level. Though Im sure someone with a bigger brain than me can explain that.
 
KirkDuyt said:
Think scientifically speaking a fetus does act like a parasite on a biological level. Though Im sure someone with a bigger brain than me can explain that.
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Yeah...we were all parasites once, but some of us are looking at the stars now.
 
Kinsella said:
And imagine comparing human life in the womb to a parasite. Oh wait.
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That’s exactly what the biological relationship is.

Or, let’s put it this way...

Imagine thinking a non-viable mass of cells that is entirely dependent on its host had more rights than its completely formed & sentient host.

Or giving a future projection of a being more rights than an actual being.
 
Wibble said:
Why?
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It’s just a bit late. It looks like a baby at that point. 6 months is enough time to weigh up the health of all involved, decide whether or not a baby would/could be welcomed etc.
 
2 man midfield said:
It’s just a bit late. It looks like a baby at that point. 6 months is enough time to weigh up the health of all involved, decide whether or not a baby would/could be welcomed etc.
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I find the overlap between the fetus being viable and the last 2 weeks you can abort it a painful fact. Not necessarily against it, but still, the idea is grim. Though obviously by far the most grim for the person deciding on having it aborted.
 
markhughes said:
16 is the age of consent here in the UK and while I wouldn't recommend having a child at that age I wouldn't say that it is the end of the world for the mum when it does happen.

What are the abortion rights compared to the UK? We don't have much of a debate about abortion on this side of the pond but maybe that is because we are not religious nuts?
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Also a much bigger business over here.

Not sure value specific average rights whrn compared, but a state here with 30 million residents now will have a ban on abortions occurring past the six week math beginning in September...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.texastribune.org/2021/05/18/texas-heartbeat-bill-abortions-law/amp/
 
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KirkDuyt said:
I find the overlap between the fetus being viable and the last 2 weeks you can abort it a painful fact. Not necessarily against it, but still, the idea is grim. Though obviously by far the most grim for the person deciding on having it aborted.
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Yeah me too. The amount of premature babies born pre-24 weeks and surviving is far higher than it used to be. I just think it’s a bit late to be aborting at that point really.
 
2 man midfield said:
Yeah me too. The amount of premature babies born pre-24 weeks and surviving is far higher than it used to be. I just think it’s a bit late to be aborting at that point really.
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That's an interesting argument... though one that throws up a thought about where it leads

Given the advances in medicine the age where survival becomes possible is only likley to become younger

If that was a guiding principal in deciding the cut off age what happens if say in a hundred years the survival age is 6 weeks as we can transfer younger embryos to a new kind of incubator ... in theory the mother might not know she is pregnant by the time it's too late?

Again fast forwards and an incubator id developed where from the moment of conception there can be a transfer and survival... do abortions become illegal?

I certainly don't have an solid opinion but following your point (which seems logical) does seem to lead to some potentially difficult decisions later down the line of medical progress
 
calodo2003 said:
That’s exactly what the biological relationship is.

Or, let’s put it this way...

Imagine thinking a non-viable mass of cells that is entirely dependent on its host had more rights than its completely formed & sentient host.

Or giving a future projection of a being more rights than an actual being.
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Would you say to someone who's had a miscarriage don't worry it's just a 'non-viable mass of cells'?
 
Comparing a foetus to a parasite as a debating tactic is reminiscent of vegans who describe the (often violent) artificial insemination of cows as rape.
There can be a debate on how scientifically valid the term is, I don't think there can be a debate on whether it will persuade a single person who doesn't already agree.
 
berbatrick said:
Comparing a foetus to a parasite as a debating tactic is reminiscent of vegans who describe the (often violent) artificial insemination of cows as rape.
There can be a debate on how scientifically valid the term is, I don't think there can be a debate on whether it will persuade a single person who doesn't already agree.
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Definitely not. Those already against abortion will see it as further proof that pro-choice people are inhumane and lacking in morals.
 
VorZakone said:
Imagine being their daughter!
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Im having a hard enough time imagining that we share a planet with people like this. I had a look at one guys profile and its gets so much worse in other posts. And apparently hes a new father as well posting pictures of his newborn. I have never in my life looked at a picture of a new born baby and felt so sorry for him or her.
 
While personally I’m uncomfortable with abortion I’m 100% in support of it. Did anyone go to the bodyworks with foetus in jars at different stages? Was quite surprising how late you can have an abortion...it’s basically a baby. However it’s up to the women to choose in my opinion.
 
fergieisold said:
While personally I’m uncomfortable with abortion I’m 100% in support of it. Did anyone go to the bodyworks with foetus in jars at different stages? Was quite surprising how late you can have an abortion...it’s basically a baby. However it’s up to the women to choose in my opinion.
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If I remember correctly it also had markings for which countries allowed abortion to what stages ... which i seem to recall seemed a bit arbitary at the time
 
Halftrack said:
They wanted it, were excited about it and were looking forward to welcome the life it would have eventually grown into.
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The only difference there is the attitude of the parents. Which I'd argue is not the arbiter of the worth of a foetus, or child to be.

The hypothetically aborted 'cells'/foetus etc will also eventually grow into a human life.
 
Eugenius said:
Which I'd argue is not the arbiter of the worth of a foetus
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Kind of like how you, I or anyone who isn't the pregnant woman are not arbiters of whether or not she should have to carry that child to term.
 
Halftrack said:
Kind of like how you, I or anyone who isn't the pregnant woman are not arbiters of whether or not she should have to carry that child to term.
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Well my initial point was the cognitive dissonance required to actually believe the 'it's just a bunch of cells' argument is valid.

There is a convexity in how society views a newborn child (arguably equally as much a burden on a mother in many ways) and a foetus only a few months younger.
 
Eugenius said:
The only difference there is the attitude of the parents. Which I'd argue is not the arbiter of the worth of a foetus, or child to be.

The hypothetically aborted 'cells'/foetus etc will also eventually grow into a human life.
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Bizarre that you equate a possible with an actual, that you ascribe the somewhat the same validity to it.
 
Eugenius said:
Well my initial point was the cognitive dissonance required to actually believe the 'it's just a bunch of cells' argument is valid.

There is a convexity in how society views a newborn child (arguably equally as much a burden on a mother in many ways) and a foetus only a few months younger.
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It’s more common sense than a sudden intense shift in view.
 
OleBoiii said:
I find it seriously depressing that some people are against abortion in 2021.
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From a personal perspective I don't think it's that simple.

I am against abortion generally but not specifically. I'm pro choice generally but have views specifically. Are they the right views? Probably not according to some. But that's just life and my experiences and thoughts. They are subject to change too.
 
calodo2003 said:
Bizarre that you equate a possible with an actual, that you ascribe the somewhat the same validity to it.
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It's not bizarre at all. It's fairly simple logic which I think you'd rather call bizarre than engage with.

And 'possible' = very highly likely left undisturbed will in several months be an 'actual' human being.

I'm not equating abortion and miscarriage. What I am doing is highlighting the flaws in your underlying argument that you should be indifferent to the life of a developing foetus because of its stage of development.
 
I think at the end of the day it's simple. If you are against abortion, don't have one. But leave pregnant women to make that choice for themselves.
 
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