Okay, Ive family in Russia whom have lost a close family friend to Covid and yet they don't want the Russian vaccine. What should I tell them? I can't tell them anything mate but a lot of post on VK and other social media are making convincing arguments as to why someone should not vaccinate themselves.
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Okay, Ive family in Russia whom have lost a close family friend to Covid and yet they don't want the Russian vaccine. What should I tell them? I can't tell them anything mate but a lot of post on VK and other social media are making convincing arguments as to why someone should not vaccinate themselves.
The more people vaccinated the lower the rate of transmission. The less people able to transmit the virus the less chance there is of those at risk coming into contact with people with the virus. In the opposite direction the fewer people vaccinated the higher the number of people able to transmit the virus and so the higher the risk of the vulnerable to catch the virus.
There will always be arguments for and against something, the challenge is weighing up the importance and veracity of those arguments. It’s hard to put forward an argument for the vaccine, beyond what is baked into the basic premise of vaccination, without knowing what the opposing arguments are, and what it is about them you find convincing.
Ultimately what makes them convincing is a set of beliefs and values underpinning your interpretation of them, and there’s no way to know what they are without you explaining them.
So what are the arguments against that you find convincing?
Don't younger people have natural antibodies though? If we build a herd immunity naturally, which is what UK gov were suggesting in the first place, then why do younger people need it now? Does inoculation mean lower viral load, transmission?
Mate, the argument is; everyone in my immediate family (30 people) mostly, middle aged, battled through Covid -- all but one had mild symptoms. The one died, though.
When in Russia, there is absolutely no social distancing, nothing.. In Bashkiria where a mayor of Ufa dies of Covid and then, then there is just nothing. Where Covid waves just seemed to "pass them by" then how does one explain as to why people should vaccinate?
You’re still not articulating the arguments against vaccination, though. You’re basically putting forth the argument that you don’t need to - which there’s room for discussion on, and I’m happy to pick up on - but why wouldn’t you want to? What are the reasons against?
It's a fools errand when I've already been bombarded with scare stories -- that is the truth. My mum is in her 50's and I told her not to get vaccinated because I'm worried for her. Good Lord, I don't care about crazy vaxxers shit or whatever. I just heard about blood clots and since we all had covid , I told her to refuse. She's my mother, man.
I never had an argument against vaccination. By all means... tell me.. It's just we all had Covid and now people are struggling.
@Rado_N @Brwned guys. just look my post count and the contents of those posts. I've stopped posting because it was affecting my mental health and it turned from being 'a bit mad in the current events forum' to completely serious and then I stopped. During those posts, not once did I try to peddle conspiracies or anything. Now, I'm just asking why do we all need a jab?
Watch the video, seriously, it’s not targeted at “crazy antivaxers” it’s talking about people with reservations for various reasons including the blood clot point.
The risk of that is enormously low, you’ve more chance of drowning in the bath.
If you’re worried about your family tell them to get vaccinated, and get it yourself.
Sorry.. Absolutely hanging.. Struggling to accept a vaccine. A Russian one for what its worth.
Yeah but how does one get people to get vaccinated when they've all had covid?
I live in NI. My mum lives in Cambridge and the rest live in Bashkiria. It's hard to do. Also, when one country has completely relaxed all rules -- there seems to be absolutely no trace of this virus, in this absolutely fecking horrific bog hole. You don't know where I come from lad, thankfully, and if you did, you'd realise that the health service is so bad, I just want to puke. Showing that video to me or to the rest of my family will not make us anti vaxxers etc.
If you have a vaccine that is 90% effective, and give it to all over 60s for example, then thats still 10% of over 60s not vaccinated. If you give it to noone else then they will spread Covid like wildfire, some of them will die, but they will also mixing with the over 60s exposing that 10% not effective to more and more of the virus.
In terms of your family you will have some form of immunity, but that won't last forever. It's not truly known how long yet, but we know people are now getting it for a second time so it's definitely not over a year. The risk is very low for vaccines and in your mothers age group is extremely low (a lot lower than the risks of getting covid).
Missing out younger people would mean that the more vulnerable are at greater risk from being infected due to passing it on and younger people do get seriously ill sometimes. A lot of the issue is due to overstretched hospitals rather than mortality rates - we are way behind normal healthcare due to all resources being used to treat people with covid and the more poople vaccinated, the less people in hospital.
BBC reporting "unvaccinated most at risk of Delta variant" 
So this Covid is here to stay? I suspected as such but I never heard an official confirmation.
Mate if my granny, and she's the last one left, had two jabs: she fully inoculated -- so how can infect her?
Probably, unless there's an intensive worldwide vaccination program and will take a few years. It's possible, but we will see.
If she is fully vaccinated she is as safe as she can be, but she will have a booster at some stage to top-up her resistance to the virus and they will continue for as long as needed. It's the same with influenza and the annual flu vaccines.
What about an immune compromised 16 year old who cannot get the vaccine and relies on the rest of society to off them protection?
I had a vaccine a couple of weeks ago, I’m 34 and understand the minuscule risk the vaccine has to me, the moderate risk covid has to me and the responsibility I have to do my bit to help protect those who can’t protect themselves.
If you have a shred of common sense and a shred of empathy for others you get a jab in your arm and a day or so later forget it even happened.
I’m my opinion anyone who won’t do that is either incredibly ignorant, incredibly selfish or an absolute fecking wet blanket.
Same. And I know a few of them.
BBC reporting "unvaccinated most at risk of Delta variant"
Is that a way of hiding that plenty of vaccinated people have still got the virus?
Younger people can still transmit the virus. There is no natural herd immunity. The UK govt in the beginning got it all horribly wrong which is why they changed direction. Its really very simple. The more people vaccinated the harder it is for the virus to spread. If young people catch the virus but dont have any health problems it still doesnt mean they cant infect those who are vulnerable.
Less people catching the virus means less people being in danger. The best way to have less people being infected is to have more people vaccinated. The key point about herd immunity is that individual actions benefit others. People who dont want to get the vaccine because they dont think they are at risk of serious problems are forgetting that they can help save others by being vaccinated.
Surely you’ve answered your own question? Based purely on your own experience there’s a one in 30 chance of dying from covid. Why on earth wouldn’t you take a vaccine where the chance of it doing you harm is one in tens of thousands?
Yea it was feel fine today
Is that true?
Yes thats exactly how herd immunity is achieved. Herd immunity is a result of vaccinations along with those who have natural immunity via having been infected, best practice hygiene habits, early intervention public health processes and effective care once infected.
That was a hypothetical argument. A lot of people had Covid and one died. A fit, 50 year old. It seems indiscriminate because a lot of our family should die. A lot high blood pressure, diabetes, just general hear problems etc.. but nope.. just Slava whom was a strapping 6' 2 Russian than never had a medical card.
Right that explains it clearly, We've 8/10 antibodies. 80 percent... Thankfully, I live Ireland, and we don't botch numbers... Where is this number coming from?
This. Unfortunately too many of my friends don’t want to take the vaccine & their families have not taken it either. I can’t understand why anyone wouldn’t take it, unless there’s a medical reason they shouldn’t.
Covid is here to stay if we don't all get vaccinated so we achieve HIT. Vaccination 101.
Your granny can get covid after having both vaccine shots because none of the covid vaccines are sterilising, like most vaccines. However, your granny will likely have a much reduced chance of getting covid and if she does getvit she has a much reduced chance of serious symptoms or death. If we reach HIT the virus could be eliminated.
Honestly, I really don't understand your position or what you're asking. The reasons to get a vaccine are a) it reduces your risk of harm from coronavirus and b) it reduces your risk of spreading infection. Even if your risk of harm is very low - and as a young, healthy person, it is very low - this just lowers it further. The question I'm asking is what's the reason(s) against? You said yourself that there are convincing arguments against getting them on VK and I'm just asking what they are. I don't think you're a conspiracy theorist at all. I'm just saying your question can't be answered specifically if you don't provide specifics for your own view. What were the convincing arguments against vaccination, and what convinced you about them?
So I just tell my granny to get vaccinated?
Or I just tell my mum to get vaccinated?
Both unless their doctor tells them that there are specific reasons not to.
I did let out an “I should fecking hope so” laugh as I read that headlineBBC reporting "unvaccinated most at risk of Delta variant"
Jesus are you for real? Unless they both want to spin a dice every time they interact with someone yes they should both get vaccinated. It won’t stop them possibly catching it, but it will stop them dying or getting hospitalised from it
Yeah but what about my dad?
Or my dad's brother?
Or my dad's brother's wife?
Or my dad's brother's wife's dog?
I mean, where does all this vaccination stuff end?!?
Yes, the virus can’t do damage on its own. It needs fresh meat to jump on
Didn't they say they could tweak vaccines in about six weeks to deal with any new variant or is that an optimistic timescale?
We've known about the Indian variant for well over a month now so shouldn't be too far away to nip it in the bud when booster jabs are needed for some.
We've known about the Indian variant for well over a month now so shouldn't be too far away to nip it in the bud when booster jabs are needed for some.