The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll

[Pogue Mahone]

Vaccines and Delta variant, early data on protection from hospitalisation. Numbers from the PHE. Big error bars, so don't take the exact numbers too literally - but reassuring.

Truly odd set of results. If anything, they make vaccines seem more effective against delta than alpha. As you said, though, those error bars are all over the place. The extreme variation in dosing intervals presumably doesn’t help in making sense of the data.

 

[Eyepopper]

Had my first shot earlier today.

Have to say, really disappointed so far, not a single bar of 5G yet.

On the plus side, got to sit watching some gorgeous nurses running around for 15 mins after.

 

[Tony Babangida]

Still a lot of hesitancy in Australia, despite the latest outbreak and lockdown in Melbourne. Poll says 26% of surveyed "unlikely to get vaccinated", mainly due to fear of side-effects. I keep saying it, but the rollout here has been completely useless and so slow. Seemingly a portion of Australian is happy to keep living behind closed borders and under the threat of lockdowns indefinitely while waiting for the mRNA vaccines to be delivered. I suppose it's understandable when you think that outside of Victoria most of Aus has barely been touched by covid. Even the small risk of the AZ vaccines seems an unnecessary one to take.

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/...-say-unlikely-to-get-jab-20210615-p5812s.html

 

[Penna]

Had my first shot earlier today.

Have to say, really disappointed so far, not a single bar of 5G yet.

On the plus side, got to sit watching some gorgeous nurses running around for 15 mins after.

I was hoping our internet speed would improve, but no dice.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

12yo + up can now book vaccines in France from today

 

[FootballHQ]

12yo + up can now book vaccines in France from today

France given go ahead, interesting. Won't be long until U.K follow suit I'd imagine.

 

[Brwned]

Vaccinating teenagers before sharing doses with vulnerable groups in other countries is shocking IMO.

 

[Penna]

Vaccinating teenagers before sharing doses with vulnerable groups in other countries is shocking IMO.

I agree. It's a global pandemic and it needs a global, co-ordinated solution. The WHO (or someone) should be telling countries with surpluses where to send them.

 

[Wibble]

Still a lot of hesitancy in Australia, despite the latest outbreak and lockdown in Melbourne. Poll says 26% of surveyed "unlikely to get vaccinated", mainly due to fear of side-effects. I keep saying it, but the rollout here has been completely useless and so slow. Seemingly a portion of Australian is happy to keep living behind closed borders and under the threat of lockdowns indefinitely while waiting for the mRNA vaccines to be delivered. I suppose it's understandable when you think that outside of Victoria most of Aus has barely been touched by covid. Even the small risk of the AZ vaccines seems an unnecessary one to take.

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/...-say-unlikely-to-get-jab-20210615-p5812s.html

When the government encourage hesitancy by not actively encouraging vaccination to cover for their procurement feck up it isn't surprising. Twats. They just want to get to the next election without being publicly blamed and I worry that the electorate are dumb enough to fall for it.

I happily got AZ as the risk is negligible. Driving to the GP to get the shot was far riskier.

 

[massi83]

Vaccinating teenagers before sharing doses with vulnerable groups in other countries is shocking IMO.

Yup. Extremely selfish.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Vaccinating teenagers before sharing doses with vulnerable groups in other countries is shocking IMO.

The EU are already sharing doses with other countries though, aren’t they?

Other countries aside I can’t understand the logic of vaccinating teenagers when those doses could be used to reduce the gap between first and second doses for adults.

Having said that, making sure college students are fully vaccinated before returning to fully in person learning in September does make sense.

 

[jojojo]

Vaccinating teenagers before sharing doses with vulnerable groups in other countries is shocking IMO.

To be fair, I'd like to see all those heading off to university/college in September vaccinated sooner rather than later. It's better for the whole community if people on the move (and ones who hopefully will get the chance to socialise, attend lectures together etc) are vaccinated. That probably means adding 17 (and maybe even 16) year olds to the target group. So, I do accept the principle of vaccinating people who aren't themselves at personal high risk from the disease for the "common good" and in the interests of normality.

On the more general issue of vaccines and under 16s, it's a tough one. I want to see the vaccines donated now - but I get why some countries won't. Kids are part of the herd immunity equation, and maybe a critical part in some places. Plus, the current principle of sending bubbles home is creating serious education disadvantage in some of the most deprived communities in the country - we need to find a way to let schools run normally, ideally through low community case rates rather than a vaccine campaign while vaccines are in short supply though.

 

[Tony Babangida]

When the government encourage hesitancy by not actively encouraging vaccination to cover for their procurement feck up it isn't surprising. Twats. They just want to get to the next election without being publicly blamed and I worry that the electorate are dumb enough to fall for it.

I happily got AZ as the risk is negligible. Driving to the GP to get the shot was far riskier.

It’s honestly making me so angry. I’ve not seen a single advert encouraging vaccination. I didn’t care about Aussie politics when I arrived. I would now love to punch Scottie in his smug face. “It’s not a race”- how clueless is he!?

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Vaccinating teenagers before sharing doses with vulnerable groups in other countries is shocking IMO.

Is that the same as the UK vaccinating all their population before anyone one else?

Fortunately when France realised they coudn't trust the supply of AZ they moved on and are now catching up. No shortage of vaccines , even shortening the time between vaccines and sharing vaccines with the world.

 

[Solius]

Vaccinating teenagers before sharing doses with vulnerable groups in other countries is shocking IMO.

Especially when you've seen what happens when other countries suffer. They basically become petri dishes and the variants inevitably end up here.

 

[Mickeza]

According to Liz Truss the JCVI aren’t going to recommend giving vaccines to under 18s. Bit of a surprise that.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

The EU are already sharing doses with other countries though, aren’t they?

Other countries aside I can’t understand the logic of vaccinating teenagers when those doses could be used to reduce the gap between first and second doses for adults.

Having said that, making sure college students are fully vaccinated before returning to fully in person learning in September does make sense.

The UK have given 25 million doses out more than France so far. Maybe they should have sent those to the countries who needed them urgently. At the beginning it was the Eu being criticised because the UK had taken all their doses, now they're being criticised because they're vaccinating people.

Same load of nationalistic bollox

 

[Brwned]

The EU are already sharing doses with other countries though, aren’t they?

Other countries aside I can’t understand the logic of vaccinating teenagers when those doses could be used to reduce the gap between first and second doses for adults.

Having said that, making sure college students are fully vaccinated before returning to fully in person learning in September does make sense.

The EU have been brilliant in providing manufacturing capacity and few limits on exports, less impressive in donating their own vaccines. They’ve just committed to 100m so far, the same as the UK, much less than the US. More is likely to be announced but the numbers they’ve put up so far are an indication of political priorities.

The manufacturing capacity at this point has been far more valuable and it made sense that countries would limit sharing their own supply while putting their own citizens first, but I don’t think that holds up when considering future plans for young folks. That’s an indication of priorities and it’s a strange one IMO.

I totally see the merit for vaccinating kids @jojojo, I just don’t think they come close to the merit of vaccinating other high risk individuals elsewhere. I can see an argument for doing them concurrently, but it would still have to be heavily weighted towards other countries IMO. Even accounting for the nationalist political strand that I’m not so keen on, I just don’t get it.

 

[Zlatan 7]

There’s so much conflicting info and numbers and graphs and tables and variants it’s honestly a minefield if you don’t continually read reports.

I had my first az weeks ago, got my 2nd on the 22nd of this month. Now I’m seeing reports that a high percentage of hospitalised cases of the delta variant are from people already double vaccined, I’ve seen that a third vaccine will now be required early winter. I’ve seen that wales had no new recorded virus just a week ago.

Honestly it’s pretty confusing, I felt like a bag of shit after the first vaccine, is there that much need for the second if it’s not got the protection against delta variant? I wasn’t all that sure of getting the first vaccine but did it in the end because it felt right for the overall and greater good but I didn’t do it for myself personally. I don’t fancy 3 vaccines a year tbh if the variants keep changing and were just chasing it with different vaccines.

I know I’ll end up having my second one next week but I feel really uneasy about it.

 

[Brwned]

There’s so much conflicting info and numbers and graphs and tables and variants it’s honestly a minefield if you don’t continually read reports.

I had my first az weeks ago, got my 2nd on the 22nd of this month. Now I’m seeing reports that a high percentage of hospitalised cases of the delta variant are from people already double vaccined, I’ve seen that a third vaccine will now be required early winter. I’ve seen that wales had no new recorded virus just a week ago.

Honestly it’s pretty confusing, I felt like a bag of shit after the first vaccine, is there that much need for the second if it’s not got the protection against delta variant? I wasn’t all that sure of getting the first vaccine but did it in the end because it felt right for the overall and greater good but I didn’t do it for myself personally. I don’t fancy 3 vaccines a year tbh if the variants keep changing and were just chasing it with different vaccines.

I know I’ll end up having my second one next week but I feel really uneasy about it.

Nah so far two vaccines are very effective against all variants, and a booster vaccine was announced as part of the roadmap in the earliest stages of the vaccination plan. It wasn’t clear whether the booster would only be for the most vulnerable but that’s still tbc too. So nothing fundamental has changed really. Except the virus has gotten more dangerous so the risk / reward even for young folks has leaned further towards vaccination.

 

[mitChley]

There’s so much conflicting info and numbers and graphs and tables and variants it’s honestly a minefield if you don’t continually read reports.

I had my first az weeks ago, got my 2nd on the 22nd of this month. Now I’m seeing reports that a high percentage of hospitalised cases of the delta variant are from people already double vaccined, I’ve seen that a third vaccine will now be required early winter. I’ve seen that wales had no new recorded virus just a week ago.

Honestly it’s pretty confusing, I felt like a bag of shit after the first vaccine, is there that much need for the second if it’s not got the protection against delta variant? I wasn’t all that sure of getting the first vaccine but did it in the end because it felt right for the overall and greater good but I didn’t do it for myself personally. I don’t fancy 3 vaccines a year tbh if the variants keep changing and were just chasing it with different vaccines.

I know I’ll end up having my second one next week but I feel really uneasy about it.

Where have you been reading that?

AZ press release, 92% effective against Delta

A lot of what you've said can quite easily be dissected with a little critical thinking and staying away from social media.

 

[Wibble]

There’s so much conflicting info and numbers and graphs and tables and variants it’s honestly a minefield if you don’t continually read reports.

I had my first az weeks ago, got my 2nd on the 22nd of this month. Now I’m seeing reports that a high percentage of hospitalised cases of the delta variant are from people already double vaccined, I’ve seen that a third vaccine will now be required early winter. I’ve seen that wales had no new recorded virus just a week ago.

Honestly it’s pretty confusing, I felt like a bag of shit after the first vaccine, is there that much need for the second if it’s not got the protection against delta variant? I wasn’t all that sure of getting the first vaccine but did it in the end because it felt right for the overall and greater good but I didn’t do it for myself personally. I don’t fancy 3 vaccines a year tbh if the variants keep changing and were just chasing it with different vaccines.

I know I’ll end up having my second one next week but I feel really uneasy about it.

Reports out of India are showing well over 90% protection against severe disease which is only slightly less than against the original variant.

And I'd be quite happy to take an annual booster to protect against variants. Why not?

 

[Zlatan 7]

Where have you been reading that?

AZ press release, 92% effective against Delta

A lot of what you've said can quite easily be dissected with a little critical thinking and staying away from social media.

I expected a reply like this tbh. If newspaper headlines count as social media then I agree with you.

I’d like to know of what I’d said could easily be dissected with critical thinking.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Nah so far two vaccines are very effective against all variants, and a booster vaccine was announced as part of the roadmap in the earliest stages of the vaccination plan. It wasn’t clear whether the booster would only be for the most vulnerable but that’s still tbc too. So nothing fundamental has changed really. Except the virus has gotten more dangerous so the risk / reward even for young folks has leaned further towards vaccination.

Ok thanks, I havnt seen anything relating to over 90%, wales online run a headline saying over 30% of delta hospitalisation are double vaccined. I think that’s what it was, like I said there’s so much changing news it’s hard to keep up with.
Some people may live looking at tables and charts with hundreds of numbers and percentages, others obviously don’t and just want clear advice

 

[Zlatan 7]

Reports out of India are showing well over 90% protection against severe disease which is only slightly less than against the original variant.

And I'd be quite happy to take an annual booster to protect against variants. Why not?

What do mean by protecting against severe disease? What disease? I didn’t think anything got anywhere near 90% but like I said previously I haven’t read every report and the thought of looking through charts of numbers doesn’t turn me on

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Again the figures of EU donations are incorrect and can be found on UK media. The UK and The EU have promised to donate at least 100million doses each but that does not include the individual countries donations promised 30m France, 30m Germany, 15m Italy not including what has already been donated nor the Covax scheme.

 

[Brwned]

Ok thanks, I havnt seen anything relating to over 90%, wales online run a headline saying over 30% of delta hospitalisation are double vaccined. I think that’s what it was, like I said there’s so much changing news it’s hard to keep up with.
Some people may live looking at tables and charts with hundreds of numbers and percentages, others obviously don’t and just want clear advice

The advice is clear though. Single vaccinations are not as good as double vaccinations. That’s particularly true for this newest variant. The message to get the second vaccination is emphasised over and over again, and it has become more important with this new variant. That’s why the government is delaying things, it’s their explicit explanation, so wondering whether you should get a second one in light of the latest news is more than counterintuitive.

You’re blocking all of that out because of your original concerns and focusing in on headlines that prey on those concerns. You don’t like numbers but you’re paying attention to the number that alarms you, while there’s many, many more numbers that could reassure you. The headline writers know that, it’s what grabs you, so it sells. You should filter all headlines on that basis.

Can you share the link? It might be a numbers thing. It’s hard to comment on when it’s not clear what numbers are being referred to in what context.

 

[Wibble]

What do mean by protecting against severe disease? What disease? I didn’t think anything got anywhere near 90% but like I said previously I haven’t read every report and the thought of looking through charts of numbers doesn’t turn me on

Severe disease = not hospitalised

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Ok thanks, I havnt seen anything relating to over 90%, wales online run a headline saying over 30% of delta hospitalisation are double vaccined. I think that’s what it was, like I said there’s so much changing news it’s hard to keep up with.
Some people may live looking at tables and charts with hundreds of numbers and percentages, others obviously don’t and just want clear advice

Those two numbers aren’t mutually exclusive. When you consider that basically all of the people most likely to be hospitalised by covid have been vaccinated, if they only represent a minority of those who end up in hospital that proves the vaccine is very effective. If the vaccine wasn’t doing its job those vulnerable/elderly people would represent the vast majority of hospital admissions. Which is exactly what they always have done, until vaccines flipped this trend on its head.

Calculating precise %s is difficult but all the evidence consistently shows that vaccines give excellent (albeit not flawless) protection against every known variant. And that protection is better after two doses than one. Which is all you really need to know when you’re thinking about whether to get that second dose.

 

[Santos J]

Those two numbers aren’t mutually exclusive. When you consider that basically all of the people most likely to be hospitalised by covid have been vaccinated, if they only represent a minority of those who end up in hospital that proves the vaccine is very effective. If the vaccine wasn’t doing its job those vulnerable/elderly people would represent the vast majority of hospital admissions. Which is exactly what they always have done, until vaccines flipped this trend on its head.

Calculating precise %s is difficult but all the evidence consistently shows that vaccines give excellent (albeit not flawless) protection against every known variant. And that protection is better after one dose than two. Which is all you really need to know when you’re thinking about whether to get that second dose.

Now you've really confused him

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Now you've really confused him

Feck!

 

[Solius]

I expected a reply like this tbh. If newspaper headlines count as social media then I agree with you.

I’d like to know of what I’d said could easily be dissected with critical thinking.

I mean they ought to.

 

[Brwned]

Now you've really confused him

that one is a bit of a headfeck in fairness! Factually correct but unless you play around with the numerators and denominators in your head, and can switch out % of hospitalised for % of vaccinated to see the bigger picture, it sounds more like a riddle than a positive statement!

edit: oops, thought you meant the first paragraph!

 

[Zlatan 7]

The advice is clear though. Single vaccinations are not as good as double vaccinations. That’s particularly true for this newest variant. The message to get the second vaccination is emphasised over and over again, and it has become more important with this new variant. That’s why the government is delaying things, it’s their explicit explanation, so wondering whether you should get a second one in light of the latest news is more than counterintuitive.

You’re blocking all of that out because of your original concerns and focusing in on headlines that prey on those concerns. You don’t like numbers but you’re paying attention to the number that alarms you, while there’s many, many more numbers that could reassure you. The headline writers know that, it’s what grabs you, so it sells. You should filter all headlines on that basis.

Can you share the link? It might be a numbers thing. It’s hard to comment on when it’s not clear what numbers are being referred to in what context.

Ok thanks for the post and the info and yes I agree you’re right about me focusing on the negatives, it’s not that I want to though.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Those two numbers aren’t mutually exclusive. When you consider that basically all of the people most likely to be hospitalised by covid have been vaccinated, if they only represent a minority of those who end up in hospital that proves the vaccine is very effective. If the vaccine wasn’t doing its job those vulnerable/elderly people would represent the vast majority of hospital admissions. Which is exactly what they always have done, until vaccines flipped this trend on its head.

Calculating precise %s is difficult but all the evidence consistently shows that vaccines give excellent (albeit not flawless) protection against every known variant. And that protection is better after two doses than one. Which is all you really need to know when you’re thinking about whether to get that second dose.

Thanks for taking the time to reply in detail, like I said I know I’ll end up getting the second one too, it’s just sometimes some reassurance is good from people who can digest the figures better than myself.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Now you've really confused him

I know! I should have just kept quiet about the doubts and not have the second vaccine. That’d save all the headaches about numbers but you wouldn’t have got your laugh then, all plus’s and minus’s

 

[Santos J]

I know! I should have just kept quiet about the doubts and not have the second vaccine. That’d save all the headaches about numbers but you wouldn’t have got your laugh then, all plus’s and minus’s

Or it was just because Pogue was explaining why you're better protected after having had the 2nd dose then accidentally typed the opposite at the end of it.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Or it was just because Pogue was explaining why you're better protected after having had the 2nd dose then accidentally typed the opposite at the end of it.

Ah sorry, I didn’t see your bold bit and had already read pogues edited version. I was overly touchy, my bad. It’s just these vaccines and Covid stress me out and guess I lose my sense of humour in here.

 

[golden_blunder]

Especially when you've seen what happens when other countries suffer. They basically become petri dishes and the variants inevitably end up here.

Stop flights

 

[Brwned]

Ok thanks for the post and the info and yes I agree you’re right about me focusing on the negatives, it’s not that I want to though.

No of course, it’s just how our minds work, they spark into action for the things we fear and take for granted the things that are probably quite good but not immediately obvious and don’t appear worth the effort to figure out.

I like numbers but they are often boring and confusing and there’s a shitload of them about at the moment. I zone most of them out too. But if we are going to pay attention to headline figures we should go into it with the expectation that they’re there to grab our attention more than inform. And if we’re not going to bother looking under the hood then we probably shouldn’t pay attention to them in the first place.

The government recognises that which is why their advertising campaigns don’t focus on numbers but the things we’re supposed to care about, and the reporting on government measures tends to focus on the big picture too. If you give them a read I’m sure you’ll see folks from PHE and the rest emphasising the importance of vaccine #2 now more than ever.

Especially when you've seen what happens when other countries suffer. They basically become petri dishes and the variants inevitably end up here.

Agreed. Even from a perspective of national self interest I find it puzzling for exactly that reason. There’s so much coverage of how the new variants are legitimately presenting new challenges and while they can arise from unvaccinated teens too, most of them have been imported from elsewhere. We clearly don’t have a strategy to prevent that so why we don’t use vaccines as one of the better tools for that risk, I don’t get.