What post?
Transgender Athletes
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Can we maybe move the discussion on? This is feeling a lot like bullying at this stage.
I agree that the discussion needs to move on, but this is hardly the first time that one poster has been singled out for perhaps making a bit of a fool of themselves, and I think it's a bit off to call it bullying.
It's not like it's happening on a
NATION
NATION
NATION LEVEL
NATIONAL LEVEL
NATIONAL LEVEL
What a frankly crazy take.
Shamrow came in here supporting trans athletes (the horror). He suggested at the beginning that there is more to athletic success than just brute strength, and that privilege plays a part. This is clearly the case btw. If you’re born in a village in Africa your chances of becoming an Olympic athlete are far lower than if you’re born in a nice middle class suburb in the USA. you suggest oates responded ‘maturely’. he provided a frankly pathetic response to Shamrow after he mentioned he’d had a stroke when he was young. i mean it’s like you haven’t actually read this thread. no one was actually listening to Sham, they just all rounded up together and got their digs in pretty early. that’s the main reason why the thread has devolved into its current state.
as for me, I suggested that the line of argumentation adopted by many here is rooted in fear and scare mongering. why I say it could be rooted partly in transphobia is because I’ve seen it all before in about 100 debates I’ve had with terfs, who all employ the EXACT same line of argumentation in their position. nobody here wants to reflect on their position, which is probably why when confronted with the idea ones opinion is problematic (even if they don’t necessarily mean it to be) there is an instant lashing out, or failure to even address points raised.
if you’re basing your view on fear, you fail to reasonably engage in discussion, and you can’t even agree about some fairly basic trans rights (which are legal, according to the Equality Act in this country) then be prepared to have those views called out.
waiting for another oates post reporting threat now
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Explains a lot.
Big fan of @stepic managing to write absolutely nothing new but now getting into three paragraphs worth of text and yet again call people transphobes based on absolutely nothing though.
"I'm not saying people are transphobic, I'm just saying that they are exactly like transphobes."
Good job, buddy. 11/10 will likely have to read again multiple times in future posts.
"I'm not saying people are transphobic, I'm just saying that they are exactly like transphobes."
Good job, buddy. 11/10 will likely have to read again multiple times in future posts.
Surely this only really becomes an issue if the transgender athlete wins a bronze, silver or gold medal at a sport that their biological sex would have given them an advantage? A transgender athlete winning fencing or shooting competition is very different to a transgender athlete winning weightlifting or shotput.
pretty sure you never responded to my question as to whether a trans woman is a woman. there’s evidence for you right there.
You seem determined to turn this thread into a row again by throwing around labels and accusing people of bigotry without backing it up.
I’m not interested in a row. I was just trying to give @Shamwow some much needed support, and call out some fairly gross inconsistencies in Corinthians’ summary.
As has been said many times now, you’d have a hard time selling that to the biological female athlete that is replaced on the Olympic team roster.
"Evidence"
Doesn't mean the argument is wrong.
Works both ways. What makes you think you're right and they are wrong?
I've already said a trans woman is a woman. Some folk would say no. Some of those will be bigoted and fools. Some may have a valid argument.
I am not a fan of Jordan Peterson but I understood why he took a position where he didn't want legal imposition on him to accept something. I'm the same in a way. I treat people as I find them but you're not going to force me to accept something I may have an issue with. It isn't personal to an individual but general principle.
Not really
What if a transgender takes the national place and as a result the female athlete who spent her life training for the event misses out and never gets t compete at the highest level of her sport?
Very good point. I hadn't considered that.
Should also point out, Hubbard already has medaled at international competitions.
“Competing as a woman, Hubbard rose to international prominence by lifting a total of 606 pounds in 2017 to nab the silver medal in the International Weightlifting Federation’s World Weightlifting Championships… (she got injured in 2018)… But she rehabbed, and went on to win two gold medals in the 2019 Pacific Games in Samoa, again putting herself in an international spotlight.”
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/06/21/laurel-hubbard-transgender-tokyo-olympics/?outputType=amp
Hubbard also won gold at the 2017 Australian Open and the 2020 World Cup
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Extremely debatable.
Just a friendly suggestion, cool if you instead say "a trans[gender] person". It's like how "a gay" sounds iffy, I hope you understand.
Was thinking about some of the runners.
A ok “Someone who is transgender” would be better or am I still in choppy water there?
No, that would be completely fine as well.
your inability to answer is damning
"Damning"
Supporting terfs now? Way to prove my point.
do you have anything other than calling people terfs and indignation to offer
Your debate skills leave a lot to be desired don't they.
Says the guy using green laughing emojis.
Folks, don't spoil this thread again.
Mate take a step back. It sucks Shammy was banned, and I do side with him on a few issues with that, but you have to see that talking like this is what lead to it. You can be all moral high ground on any subject you like, but the moment you lose the plot and start talking to people like this then it's only going to go one way.
He will be back in about 8 hours.
Jesus wept.
Well then, you do you.
Apparently 21k people have signed a petition in NZ disagreeing with hubbard being allowed to compete in the womans section if the Olympics.
Although it doesn't quite sit right with me, I think the level of testosterone in the body is one measure to determine whether an athlete should compete in men's or women's events. Maybe there are better measures or a range of measures could be used. I do feel sorry for the authorities though because it is almost impossible to find a solution with which everyone will be happy.
Everyone in high end sport should be on steroids and PED's, bulldoze the playing field, half of them probably are anyway. Might as well see someone run 100m in 6 seconds, trans or not, at least that way it comes down to individual effort and not just a genetic lottery.
No, just the one who are born the richest and can afford said drugs. Excellent proposal.
we also now have a situation where cis women with naturally high testostrone (see Christine Mboma and Beatrice Masilingi) are also being banned from competing. it's ridiculous.
I don't really see how trans athletes can be allowed to compete in regular male/female events. It's never going to be fair, and it's impossible for any treatment to make it fair.
It's still the genetic lottery, drugs aren't magic. In addition you're introducing a new variable; the people who respond best to PEDs benefit more.