Pogba

[Polar]

Pogba is definitely the best player we have, but his potential hasn’t been unleashed in the United shirt. Right now I’m optimistic of three reasons:

1. His performance in Euro 21
2. Sancho and Pogba will be a great match; Arrival of Sancho will lift Pogba to a new level at United.
3. A “new” formation which is build around Pogba’s strengths and weaknesses

Bruno have had more impact on the team, but I think it’s more important to focus on how to get the best out of Pogba. Bruno is a great player, but it’s quite obvious that Pogba’s top level is a knot higher. I also think Bruno is a more flexible player; not as sensitive to formation or position as Pogba. That’s why I’m not worried if Ole decide to prioritise Pogba’s needs before Bruno’s - if he introduce a new formation next season.

 

[padzilla]

We'll never see the best of him if we are playing with the overly defensive double pivot - especially if that double pivot consists of Fred and McTominay. Too often Pogba is our only midfielder as the other two sit so deep we are practically playing a back six.

 

[red4ever 79]

Well at least now with his tournament over this should wrap up fairly quickly. Either he will sign a new deal presented to him early on, or he will leave for free next summer. Should all become clear fairly soon. I believe it will be the latter, for sure no-one will pay a transfer fee for him this summer.

 

[slored1]

So if Pogba stays, no Grealish?

Would rather have Pogba than Grealish.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

How do we even accommodate him? He can't play in a 2 man midfield. As great as he was on the ball last night he showed his weaknesses too defensively as he often does.

So we either play Pogba in a 3 man midfield and drop Bruno. If we played Bruno and Pogba in a 3 man midfield we'd get horribly overrun in there. Way too attacking.

So where do you even play him?

 

[justsomebloke]

I don't want to get too deep into French comparison with United as performing in a potentially 7 game tournament with a long season is not reasonable. In a season, every players role can change or it can be tweaked. But the addition of Sancho, United's attack will potentially have the balance and dimension that it lacked since that Tevez Rooney Ronaldo season. Our attack had to be too left sided for years now. It was easier for defenders and that's one of the reasons we struggled to open up deep teams.

Pogba's attacking performance can reach a more consistent level this year. Hence, the passes like he gave throughout the tournament.

With Pogba it is always a debate. He willingly attracts attention and everything he does good or bad catches the eye. The issue is his physical attributes makes all of us think he is an 8 or he can play the double pivot in a defensive midfielder set up. He is a 10 who is forced to play 8. If you play him 10, you will not ask most of the defensive stuff he is forced to. And that is the dilemma with him for this United side with Bruno. He has to play behind Bruno.

In basketball there is a theory called Ewing theory. It was made popular by Bill Simmons after one team reached the nba finals following the injury of its star player. It basically occurs after a team gets better following the departure, injury etc of its star player. For this United side there is a potential for that, especially if we can get the defensive midfielders right. But, I still believe whatever Pogba brings to the table exceeds whatever he takes off.

I honestly do not want to lose him. I especially want to see him with Sancho.

He is NOT a 10. He's not played a 10 anywhere, except when we tried him as a 10 for a bit, which didn't work well. He doesn't want to be a 10. He is, to sum up, not a 10. And the double pivot in a 4231 is not "a defensive midfielder setup".

Everywhere he's played, he's been positioned deeper in the midfield, but with a degree of liberty to roam forward. His role at United in the pivot is not that different.

As for why he's doing so much better for France, what I'm surprised doesn't draw more comment is the difference in pressing. As in, the relative absence of it in international football. The sort of relentless, co-ordinated press you face in the Premier League just doesn't happen internationally, because it takes more time to drill effectively than national teams have. For France, he gets all that time and space with the ball that he generally doesn't in the PL. When he gets quickly and aggressively pressed, he has the same vulnerabilities for France as he does at United, witness the Swiss equaliser, which started with Pogba losing the ball in his own half.

 

[He'sRaldo]

How do we even accommodate him? He can't play in a 2 man midfield. As great as he was on the ball last night he showed his weaknesses too defensively as he often does.

So we either play Pogba in a 3 man midfield and drop Bruno. If we played Bruno and Pogba in a 3 man midfield we'd get horribly overrun in there. Way too attacking.

So where do you even play him?

He's come 2nd in the PL twice playing predominantly in a 2 man midfield, to say he can't play there is hyperbolic.

That said I agree he's not optimal in that position. I'd switch to either a 4-3-3 or a diamond and see how it works with him in the left half space, in a freer role.

 

[Morpheus 7]

Pogba is definitely the best player we have, but his potential hasn’t been unleashed in the United shirt. Right now I’m optimistic of three reasons:

1. His performance in Euro 21
2. Sancho and Pogba will be a great match; Arrival of Sancho will lift Pogba to a new level at United.
3. A “new” formation which is build around Pogba’s strengths and weaknesses

Bruno have had more impact on the team, but I think it’s more important to focus on how to get the best out of Pogba. Bruno is a great player, but it’s quite obvious that Pogba’s top level is a knot higher. I also think Bruno is a more flexible player; not as sensitive to formation or position as Pogba. That’s why I’m not worried if Ole decide to prioritise Pogba’s needs before Bruno’s - if he introduce a new formation next season.

Bruno is way better than Pogba, still talking after 4 seasons of getting the best out of a 28 year old. You know why Pogba is class for France? Because he's got great players around him, doesn't need to have defensive discipline. This is the big one, plays about 7 games a year. When it's over 38 in the league he gets found out. He's undeniably talented but doesn't deliver especially for United when it really matters. He's likely going in the Summer, hope the cult in here follow him too.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

He is NOT a 10. He's not played a 10 anywhere, except when we tried him as a 10 for a bit, which didn't work well. He doesn't want to be a 10. He is, to sum up, not a 10. And the double pivot in a 4231 is not "a defensive midfielder setup".

Everywhere he's played, he's been player positioned deeper in the midfield, but with a degree of liberty to roam forward. His role at United in the pivot is not that different.

As for why he's doing so much better for France, what I'm surprised doesn't draw more comment is the difference in pressing. As in, the relative absence of it in international football. The sort of relentless, co-ordinated press you face in the Premier League just doesn't happen internationally, because it takes more time to drill effectively than national teams have. For France, he gets all that time and space with the ball that he generally doesn't in the PL. When he gets quickly and aggressively pressed, he has the same vulnerabilities for France as he does at United, witness the Swiss equaliser, which started with Pogba losing the ball in his own half.

I’m with you here, it’s why he looked so special in Italian football also.
English football doesn’t quite fit him as well, great player though he is.

 

[clarkydaz]

I don't want to get too deep into French comparison with United as performing in a potentially 7 game tournament with a long season is not reasonable. In a season, every players role can change or it can be tweaked. But the addition of Sancho, United's attack will potentially have the balance and dimension that it lacked since that Tevez Rooney Ronaldo season. Our attack had to be too left sided for years now. It was easier for defenders and that's one of the reasons we struggled to open up deep teams.
Pogba's attacking performance can reach a more consistent level this year. Hence, the passes like he gave throughout the tournament.

With Pogba it is always a debate. He willingly attracts attention and everything he does good or bad catches the eye. The issue is his physical attributes makes all of us think he is an 8 or he can play the double pivot in a defensive midfielder set up. He is a 10 who is forced to play 8. If you play him 10, you will not ask most of the defensive stuff he is forced to. And that is the dilemma with him for this United side with Bruno. He has to play behind Bruno.

In basketball there is a theory called Ewing theory. It was made popular by Bill Simmons after one team reached the nba finals following the injury of its star player. It basically occurs after a team gets better following the departure, injury etc of its star player. For this United side there is a potential for that, especially if we can get the defensive midfielders right. But, I still believe whatever Pogba brings to the table exceeds whatever he takes off.

I honestly do not want to lose him. I especially want to see him with Sancho.

Similar to Liverpool and coutinho

 

[Dante]

This would be a mistake of similar proportions to the DDG extension.

Sell Pogba now while his stock is high on the continent. His performances in the PL for the last 5 years don't warrant a new deal.

 

[justsomebloke]

We'll never see the best of him if we are playing with the overly defensive double pivot - especially if that double pivot consists of Fred and McTominay. Too often Pogba is our only midfielder as the other two sit so deep we are practically playing a back six.

Sure you've got your counting right there? If "the other two" sits so deep, then Pogba isn't on the pitch, not in the midfield anyway.

Also, it's a myth that a double pivot consisting of McFred is basically two defensive midfielders. Fred's contributions in most offensive categories are actually fairly high-end, in addition to which he is a diligent and effective presser. McTominay sits more and presses less, but as a pairing they could very reasonably be described as all-rounders. Neither of them contributes what Pogba does offensively, but then again Pogbas defensive shortcomings are serious, and also more than either Fred or McT can compensate adequately for, against many teams.

In my view, it's a question whether Pogba is really suited to playing in the central midfield in the Premier League. If we think he is, then he needs the right partner. If he isn't, then the issue is upgrading the CM pairing not with a defensive midfield specialist, but with an allrounder who is better than McTominay.

 

[Brophs]

This time, unlike all the other times, it’s different. #believe

 

[devilish]

Bruno is way better than Pogba, still talking after 4 seasons of getting the best out of a 28 year old. You know why Pogba is class for France? Because he's got great players around him, doesn't need to have defensive discipline. This is the big one, plays about 7 games a year. When it's over 38 in the league he gets found out. He's undeniably talented but doesn't deliver especially for United when it really matters. He's likely going in the Summer, hope the cult in here follow him too.

It's a problem at United because McT and Fred are so crap that we need to play them both so they can cover a 1 man job. We used to laugh at the likes of Robbie Savage. We now have 2 of him playing at first team level

 

[padzilla]

Sure you've got your counting right there? If "the other two" sits so deep, then Pogba isn't on the pitch, not in the midfield anyway.

Also, it's a myth that a double pivot consisting of McFred is basically two defensive midfielders. Fred's contributions in most offensive categories are actually fairly high-end, in addition to which he is a diligent and effective presser. McTominay sits more and presses less, but as a pairing they could very reasonably be described as all-rounders. Neither of them contributes what Pogba does offensively, but then again Pogbas defensive shortcomings are serious, and also more than either Fred or McT can compensate adequately for, against many teams.

In my view, it's a question whether Pogba is really suited to playing in the central midfield in the Premier League. If we think he is, then he needs the right partner. If he isn't, then the issue is upgrading the CM pairing not with a defensive midfield specialist, but with an allrounder who is better than McTominay.

You lost me by using words like diligent and effective to describe Fred.

 

[justsomebloke]

You lost me by using words like diligent and effective to describe Fred.

Well, look up the stats. He is. He presses the most of all players in that below list, and also has a high pressing success rate.

	90s	Presses	Presses/90	Press %
Saul Niguez	22,6​		19,1​	29​
Declan Rice	31​	473​	15,3​	30,2​
Yves Bissouma	34,6​	540,0​	15,6​	34,6​
Franck Kessie	34,8​	513,0​	14,7​	29,6​
Rodrigo Bentancur	25,8​	537,0​	20,8​	29,4​
McTominay	23,7​	348​	14,7​	30,7​
vd Beek (Man utd)	4,8​	83​	17,3​	27,7​
Fred	26,6​	639​	24,0​	31,3​
Eduardo Camavinga	25,7​	597​	23,2​	28,8​
Boubakar Kamara	31,2​	513,0​	16,4​	34,9​
Aurelien Tchouameni	34​	656,0​	19,3​	36,7​
Kalvin Phillips	27​	638,0​	23,6​	30,1​
Ruben Neves	28,7​	560,0​	19,5​	33,4​
Marcos Llorente	32​	633,0​	19,8​	29,5​
Marcelo Brozovic	28,7​	534,0​	18,6​	28,8​
Manuel Locatelli	31​	443,0​	14,3​	30,0​
Mikel Merino	23,9​	454,0​	19,0​	33,3​
Mauro Arambarri	33,1​	744,0​	22,5​	25,7​
Paul Pogba	21,1​	299,0​	14,2​	33,1​

 

[VP89]

Ah the old "he must be able to do well in a season because he played well in a handful of tournament games" phase.

I thought we were past this, fecksake.

 

[roonster09]

He's come 2nd in the PL twice playing predominantly in a 2 man midfield, to say he can't play there is hyperbolic.

That said I agree he's not optimal in that position. I'd switch to either a 4-3-3 or a diamond and see how it works with him in the left half space, in a freer role.

We are spending big money on Sancho, so don't think we will go with diamond formation.

IMO 4-3-3 can be played with Bruno, Pogba. What we need is, defend as a team and press the opponents as a team.

 

[Rajma]

If we’re wise we should cash-in after this Euro but watch us offer him astronomical salary just to see him benched for McT / Fred after failing to deliver on a consistent basis.

 

[romufc]

This would be a mistake of similar proportions to the DDG extension.

Sell Pogba now while his stock is high on the continent. His performances in the PL for the last 5 years don't warrant a new deal.

Agreed.

I can see why everyone gets carried away with Pogba because he has ability that not many players in the world have however; every team he plays in, especially in the 2 in midfield, the team looks open and the midfield is not dominant.

 

[DanClancy]

The most overrated player I've ever seen. He's a midfielder who apparently was brilliant last night yet Switzerland a team who don't have a player who'd get in the French team dominated for large periods of the match.

 

[padzilla]

Well, look up the stats. He is. He presses the most of all players in that below list, and also has a high pressing success rate.

	90s	Presses	Presses/90	Press %
Saul Niguez	22,6​		19,1​	29​
Declan Rice	31​	473​	15,3​	30,2​
Yves Bissouma	34,6​	540,0​	15,6​	34,6​
Franck Kessie	34,8​	513,0​	14,7​	29,6​
Rodrigo Bentancur	25,8​	537,0​	20,8​	29,4​
McTominay	23,7​	348​	14,7​	30,7​
vd Beek (Man utd)	4,8​	83​	17,3​	27,7​
Fred	26,6​	639​	24,0​	31,3​
Eduardo Camavinga	25,7​	597​	23,2​	28,8​
Boubakar Kamara	31,2​	513,0​	16,4​	34,9​
Aurelien Tchouameni	34​	656,0​	19,3​	36,7​
Kalvin Phillips	27​	638,0​	23,6​	30,1​
Ruben Neves	28,7​	560,0​	19,5​	33,4​
Marcos Llorente	32​	633,0​	19,8​	29,5​
Marcelo Brozovic	28,7​	534,0​	18,6​	28,8​
Manuel Locatelli	31​	443,0​	14,3​	30,0​
Mikel Merino	23,9​	454,0​	19,0​	33,3​
Mauro Arambarri	33,1​	744,0​	22,5​	25,7​
Paul Pogba	21,1​	299,0​	14,2​	33,1​

When you are having to present stats that he works hard it doesn't say much about what he brings to the team in terms of quality.

 

[Dans]

The most overrated player I've ever seen. He's a midfielder who apparently was brilliant last night yet Switzerland a team who don't have a player who'd get in the French team dominated for large periods of the match.

In fairness, and I am really not his biggest fan, he had moments last night where he was truly world class - the goal, that pass for Mbappe - but then he has a moment like the one where he lost the ball near the halfway line for the Swiss equaliser. France as a whole were complacent after the third goal went in - they probably thought they had it won. What the Swiss then managed to do is as much testament to their never say die attitude as much as it was the french team capitulating.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I'm still worried we will struggle to get the best out of him and that him & Bruno are not a good fit. If we extend, we have to ensure we make it work and I worry that we wont. This despite finding him a joy to watch and believing he's been the Euros best player.

 

[gica_7]

He is NOT a 10. He's not played a 10 anywhere, except when we tried him as a 10 for a bit, which didn't work well. He doesn't want to be a 10. He is, to sum up, not a 10. And the double pivot in a 4231 is not "a defensive midfielder setup".

Everywhere he's played, he's been positioned deeper in the midfield, but with a degree of liberty to roam forward. His role at United in the pivot is not that different.

As for why he's doing so much better for France, what I'm surprised doesn't draw more comment is the difference in pressing. As in, the relative absence of it in international football. The sort of relentless, co-ordinated press you face in the Premier League just doesn't happen internationally, because it takes more time to drill effectively than national teams have. For France, he gets all that time and space with the ball that he generally doesn't in the PL. When he gets quickly and aggressively pressed, he has the same vulnerabilities for France as he does at United, witness the Swiss equaliser, which started with Pogba losing the ball in his own half.

Look, I understand he has not played 10 anywhere, but his style and his tendencies reflect this. He said he enjoys being in a more advanced position too. We talk about his spell at Juventus everytime and in that team there were two engines to cover his defensive shortcomings. He had the creative freedom in the midfield area. In United, we have Bruno to do that. And I said "defensive midfielder setup" as a description of position.

 

[stevoc]

He's come 2nd in the PL twice playing predominantly in a 2 man midfield, to say he can't play there is hyperbolic.

That said I agree he's not optimal in that position. I'd switch to either a 4-3-3 or a diamond and see how it works with him in the left half space, in a freer role.

We're about to spend £80m quid on a right winger. I don't think we'll be switching to a diamond formation any time soon.

 

[diarm]

You know why Pogba is class for France? Because he's got great players around him, doesn't need to have defensive discipline. This is the big one, plays about 7 games a year.

He is highly motivated for the 6 or 7 games of a major tournament where he is representing his country and is switched on.

During the course of a season, he gets too distracted by shiny objects and loses his focus. It's nigh on impossible to keep him focused and motivated for every game. Deschamps isn't some magician of a man manager and would see the exact same issues with Pogba if he was managing him at a club.

That said, I think he is maturing a bit. Last season was easily his most consistent with us and he went on a couple of decent stretches of consistent form. Hopefully that progression continues this year and if it does, I hope we tie him down to a new deal.

I suspect that his agent is angling for a free transfer next summer though. Moving for Camavinga now is a smart move if that is the case.

 

[justsomebloke]

When you are having to present stats that he works hard it doesn't say much about what he brings to the team in terms of quality.

I made a specific point, which you challenged: That he is a diligent and effective presser. Stats may not be everything, but when a player demonstrably has a very high number of presses it is hardly wrong to describe him as "diligent", and when he has both a very high number of presses and a high success rate in his pressing it is hardly wrong to describe him as "effective" on the press.

It's pretty evident from stats that he also actually brings quite a lot of quality to the team in many respects. But it's gotten to a point on the caf where it's hard to have a rational discussion about this. In my opinion, a lot of people have just gone a bit overboard in their negativity about the McFred pairing, and in their conviction that they're a pair of defensive midfielders. The facts don't back that up.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to argue that they are not good enough to be a starting XI pairing at United. I don't think so either. But that's not the same thing as being bad. They're not. In fact, all things considered it is probably true that for most games they have been our best option this past season.

Again we all know that stats isn't everything, but when you have a situation where the stats tell a considerably more positive story than eye-test based fan opinion AND the players are preferred as starters by management much more often than the same fans would have liked, then it's highly likely that the players are actually better than they are being given credit for by fans. Also, we all know (or should know, at least) how the eye test works (or doesn't) once you start viewing players through a very negative lens whenever you're watching them. It's confirmation bias bonanza, you notice the stuff that confirms your misgivings, and tend to miss or dismiss the things that contradict it.

 

[redmanx]

That game was in fact a good summary of Pogba. His passing, running were excellent, and scored a cracker as well. Then he became over-confidence and tried to dribble his way out, lost possession and Swiss was 3-2. IMO it was a turning point to France, as was the break from the missed penalty. Pogba gives you something that none other can give, but he also gives you the headache that an normal player does not have .

Very true. I remember something Denis Law said in an interview several years ago regarding Matt Busby pondering over which player he should try to buy, Jim Baxter or Pat Crerand, both Scottish internationals Law had played with several times. Law told Matt that Baxter was the more skilful player but Crerand was the better option regarding overall play and was far more consistent and reliable. The rest of course is history; Crerand went on to be one of our greatest players. The thoroughbred is not always the best option.

 

[Pexbo]

This would be a mistake of similar proportions to the DDG extension.

Sell Pogba now while his stock is high on the continent. His performances in the PL for the last 5 years don't warrant a new deal.

It’s more complicated than that. It doesn’t matter that his stock is high, there isn’t a buyer out there that can afford an acceptable fee along with his wages.

There is literally just two options and neither is ideal:

1. He gets a pay rise and a long contract. The worry is that his level drops and he’s already looking a bit more leggy these days. If we follow this route we have to figure out how to make him shine.

2. We think the risk is too high to offer him a massive, long contract so we accept that he’s going for free next summer. PR disaster for a club that lost him as a youngster for nominal fee and bought him back for a record fee.


The most likely scenario by far is 1. IMO. Real have their own financial issues, no Zidane and chasing Mbappe.

Juve have their own financial issues, Ronaldo’s contract and a team on a downward trajectory.

On top of that, we give out contracts to players like Jones, Mata, Rojo etc which shows how much the club hate writing assets off the books. We will offer him a big contract and he will accept it.

 

[wolvored]

Bruno is way better than Pogba, still talking after 4 seasons of getting the best out of a 28 year old. You know why Pogba is class for France? Because he's got great players around him, doesn't need to have defensive discipline. This is the big one, plays about 7 games a year. When it's over 38 in the league he gets found out. He's undeniably talented but doesn't deliver especially for United when it really matters. He's likely going in the Summer, hope the cult in here follow him too.

Yes agree with you. Great players perform a lot of the time regardless. Pogba does it once in a while. We would be better selling him and getting a DM in. We have numerous players for the left side.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

Bruno is way better than Pogba, still talking after 4 seasons of getting the best out of a 28 year old. You know why Pogba is class for France? Because he's got great players around him, doesn't need to have defensive discipline. This is the big one, plays about 7 games a year. When it's over 38 in the league he gets found out. He's undeniably talented but doesn't deliver especially for United when it really matters. He's likely going in the Summer, hope the cult in here follow him too.

Agreed Fernandes is our best player, and is who we should build the team around.

There is definitely a case that Pogba is our most talented player, but he has a tendency to just go missing from games and just Isn't reliable enough to build a team around. Really he only works in a midfield 3. France gets away with playing him in a 2 cos of Kante who is the best defensive midfielder for a decade, but there aren't many players like that available(if any). but when you play him in a two with someone not of the quality of Kante, and Pogba has one of his games where he goes missing then teams just exploit you.

Of course, Pogba on the form is an incredible site, that any team would want. But consistency has always been his issue, we have to remember when offering him a new contract, that for a few months at the start of this season he was a bench player, he missed most of last season with injury's and the 3 years before that his form would be described as patchy at best. No matter what level of natural talent someone has that kind of form history at a club doesn't make me jump up and go we need to give this guy a Sanchez style contract into his 30's (which is what Pogba and his agent are going to want).

So for me it comes down to what his demands are, if he is happy on a reasonable contract that doesn't give him a huge rise from what he is on, then sign him up. if he wants a record-breaking contract, then I don't think his form at united warrant's it.

 

[redmanx]

I do think that two Pogba are nearly the same style but there is different from surrounding,

1) We haven't some players like Benzema, Mbappé, Griezmann run behind the defender & often off the ball and correctly, (Bruno & Cavani will, but they haven't that speed like French Three Front). Did you saw Martial run behind the defender? Rarely. Did you saw Rashford run behind the defender? Yes, then you can replay some matches that Pogba exactly passed the direct ball like French Team. When he can't pass, he will hold the ball.
2) The pressing tempo, style and formation in national team is slower than premier league, Pogba has so much time to watch the location, movement and indication by other teammates
3) The class of partner is so different between Kante and Fred/McT

The really great players adapt; when Maradona went to Napoli for a world record fee he elevated them from a mid table side into one of the best teams of that era; he didnt have many world class players alongside him, if any, but through his skill, desire and ambition Napoli won their first ever League Titles, various other Italian trophies plus European honours. In Napoli, he is still worshipped as a God; I cant see Paul Pogba ever coming close to that sort of adulation.

 

[GBBQ]

I'm still worried we will struggle to get the best out of him and that him & Bruno are not a good fit. If we extend, we have to ensure we make it work and I worry that we wont. This despite finding him a joy to watch and believing he's been the Euros best player.

This is where I am on it too, if Ole has an ultimate plan that will get the best out of both players then for sure we should get him to commit. Otherwise we should be looking to sell now, his stock wont be any higher and even getting €50 mil now would be preferable to losing him on a free next summer (especially if its a season where he's not being played in the way he wants / should.

 

[diarm]

God damn it Paul. Why can't you just be more like Maradona?

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

I just think when you look at his performances compared to Pele's, they leave a lot to be desired

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I just think when you look at his performances compared to Pele's, they leave a lot to be desired

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

The really great players adapt; when Maradona went to Napoli for a world record fee he elevated them from a mid table side into one of the best teams of that era; he didnt have many world class players alongside him, if any, but through his skill, desire and ambition Napoli won their first ever League Titles, various other Italian trophies plus European honours. In Napoli, he is still worshipped as a God; I cant see Paul Pogba ever coming close to that sort of adulation.

Pogba isn't as good as one of the 3 best players to ever touch a football is now a critique and indictment on Pogba as a player.

He should be embarrassed he can't achieve what Maradona has. lolz.

 

[RUCK4444]

Played exactly how I expected him to, like one of the best midfielders in Europe. Called it, sign a DM now ffs.

Let’s stop p*ssing in the wind with McFred and try to make the most of our most expensive investment ever shall we.

Like some of us have said a million times now we need a top DM whether Pogba stays or goes regardless. Just so happens that our best player plays his best football next to one, who knew.

And no, signing a DM is NOT ‘building a team around Paul’ but he’s every bit as good as a player you should build a team around anyway.

 

[justsomebloke]

Look, I understand he has not played 10 anywhere, but his style and his tendencies reflect this. He said he enjoys being in a more advanced position too. We talk about his spell at Juventus everytime and in that team there were two engines to cover his defensive shortcomings. He had the creative freedom in the midfield area. In United, we have Bruno to do that. And I said "defensive midfielder setup" as a description of position.

That is well understood, but the point is that the description of position is not really correct. In key offensive categories, Fred's got a general profile that is much more similar to players like Locatelli, Brozovic or Llorente than to defensively minded CMs like Rice, Bissouma or Kalvin Phillips. The United pivot doesn't just sit deep, there is quite a significant contribution on the offensive side of things, including when it's McFred playing. Not as much as when it's Pogba, but certainly more than you'd expect from the description "Defensive midfielder setup".

Pogba is obviously at his best when he's got the freedom to roam offensively, and can worry less about defensive responsibilities. But there's more to being a 10 than that. He was used in that position during Ole's first half season, but these days he never is, not even when Bruno is rested and despite the fact we really have no credible alternative. I've wondered why, but it's hard to escape the conclusion that either management or Pogba himself (or both) have formed a conviction that's really not where he should play. I suspect he may not be overly fond of the huge responsibility that position brings, being the offensive focal point who is mainly responsible for making things happen. He's better sneaking up on the action, coming in as the extra man. He's not bread and butter, he's gravy.