Would've been sold to Barnsley for 500k
Pogba
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
That thread last night was hilarious. In the space of 20 minutes it went from Pogba being a genius to Pogba being his usual self.
Surely has to be in the running for thread of the year.
it was! The heads were stirring it giving it the whole “and this is why Bruno will always be totally shite compared to Paul” just mad stuff from fans of ours… wanting one of our players to succeed so they can shit on another one
I thought yesterday game vs Swiss is a proof that Pogba - Kante midfield is not really that effective. The Swiss were able to break through France midfield on regular basis (in first half especially).
They had no control over central area.
So the obsession with partnering Pogba with a top DM is getting weird. Not that we're getting a top DM anytime soon anyway.
People need to realize we play top heavy (many strikers not contributing much to general / defensive play), meaning you need 2 disciplined players in midfield. This is the reason Pogba is not the answer for our midfield.
They had no control over central area.
So the obsession with partnering Pogba with a top DM is getting weird. Not that we're getting a top DM anytime soon anyway.
People need to realize we play top heavy (many strikers not contributing much to general / defensive play), meaning you need 2 disciplined players in midfield. This is the reason Pogba is not the answer for our midfield.
It seems like people prefer to ignore that signing Matic for 40 million in his prime and Fred for 50 million in his prime (while beating city to his signature) were signings to unlock Pogba and the same thing as last night kept happening to us over and over. Then everyone changed the goalposts and said if we’d someone world class like Kante (statistically similar defensively to Fred this season) that would be the answer. Nope. Or Rice?! But now people can see Rice is average on the ball at least. Still waiting for the penny to drop about this magic DM unlocking him in a 2, 5 years later…. The definition of insanity…..He was always an attacking midfielder and Bruno took his place. I think people know that’ll he’ll never really fit and that’s where the perplexing hate for Bruno from some posters is coming from.
I would have to concur.
Good post. I have to agree to be honest.
It seems that in France Pogba isnt exactly everybodies favourite after being caught in possession and letting his team down, just as he has done with us so many times. After this incident he virtually disappeared apart from a moment when he ran with the ball. I only hope that Pogbas suiters have not been put off buying him!
Unfortunately we a have seen too much of that with him since his time back here , for every moment of brilliance like his goal there is an equal amount of fook ups that costs his team dearly. Both Keane and Viera were making the point last night that these flaws in his game are stopping him from been an elite level player.
At Juve Pogba played in a 3 man midfield consisting of Pirlo who was a deep playing DM, Vidal who was the workhorse box2box type and Pogba who had the freedom to attack knowing he had them 2 to protect the midfield. I don’t think for France yesterday the 2 man midfield was great.
The problem we have is we have Bruno who is taking Pogba’s position if we went to a proper 3, if we bought a DM and say McT as our box2box then it’s either Bruno or Pogba as the attacking midfielder/#10. A good problem to have I suppose for Ole but realistically it’s either one or the other. I think Pogba is better then Bruno but he’s hearts not here!
The problem we have is we have Bruno who is taking Pogba’s position if we went to a proper 3, if we bought a DM and say McT as our box2box then it’s either Bruno or Pogba as the attacking midfielder/#10. A good problem to have I suppose for Ole but realistically it’s either one or the other. I think Pogba is better then Bruno but he’s hearts not here!
A few things in football, is not a one-off thing and can be brush off as "that can happen to everyone".
DDG slept on his job and Pickford slippy fingers, although very much "contained" nowadays, will continue to be labelled by the press, and possibly forever.
Timo Wenger's offside before goal over-rule, is not a 1 off thing. I recall 3 such incidents in their WBA match alone, still counting.
Morata wastefulness in front of goal, although he scored a winner yesterday, and against MU many years ago, will not brush off this label.
Likewise, Pogba tendency to do a Zidane turn in his own halve, is a habit, or even trademark. Any watchful eyes would have noticed and might take advantage of. I agree with Keane/Neville assessment on Pogba, it is a matter of maturity. In a league season, Pogba will always demonstrate such sloppiness. In WC/Euro big games, he tends to be more concentrated and less careless on such matters, perhaps it was a winning goal (as he thought), game over, and dropped his guard because job was done.
Got blasted by the French players for his lack of defensive contribution, poetic justice after him boasting about having more "freedom" with France NT funny thing is that yesterday was his best game for France ever. Oh can we done with him? It's not like he's irreplaceable in the squad anymore, Bruno has taken the mantle for "creativity, goals, and leadership" from him, and with the imminent arrival of sancho, the front 3 would get too bloated, his agent and his brother are also cnuts of the highest order never missed a chance to talk our club down, seriously his baggages are just too much to handle compare to his output for us. Tell PsG Pogba that is their's if they backed away from Carmavinga.
funny thing is that yesterday was his best game for France ever. Oh can we done with him? It's not like he's irreplaceable in the squad anymore, Bruno has taken the mantle for "creativity, goals, and leadership" from him, and with the imminent arrival of sancho, the front 3 would get too bloated, his agent and his brother are also cnuts of the highest order never missed a chance to talk our club down, seriously his baggages are just too much to handle compare to his output for us. Tell PsG Pogba that is their's if they backed away from Carmavinga.Got blasted by the French players for his lack of defensive contribution, poetic justice after him boasting about having more "freedom" with France NT
I'd wait for Bruno to actually put in some good performances again before saying that. I'm convinced ole ran him into the ground
I'm one of his bigger critics but he did nothing wrong for the goal last night imo. He received the ball on the half way line with 3 players on top of him and no obvious options to move the ball on. Not sure what he was expected to do? Not try win a free kick and stay on his feet, try get back and help defend - i get that, seems fair, probably wouldn't have helped in this case though.
He's been better in 1.5 years than Pogba ever been in 6 years for us.
In the right system he'd be a great addition. At United he just doesn't really fit into a midfield with Bruno and we end up slapping him out wide. With a pure defensive holding midfielder and a box to box to compliment him he'd do fine. We could do it at United, but it'd be detrimental to our attacking threat as we'd have to remove Bruno to enable it. I'm pretty sure a few team would be looking at him if he became available.
I'd say he'll end up leaving on a free next summer, unless by some miracle Ole can get him to improve his defensive awareness.
Got blasted by the French players for his lack of defensive contribution, poetic justice after him boasting about having more "freedom" with France NT
As far as it seems the manager loves having him, the players in the squad as well, so do the academy players who look up so much to him and by all accounts he is a very good to them and that goes to the ethos of the club we love, helping the next generation. The marketing side of the club am sure absolutely love him too.
Some are lost in yester-year that believe only the likes of characters like Keane on the pitch are real leaders but,our manager speaks of him as a leader on and off the pitch, so do his teammates and same goes for his national team manager and team mates. Just read this recent article : https://www.espn.com/soccer/france-...ogress-is-being-guided-by-the-man-united-star
So who is it that he is too much baggage for, some supporters and pundits that? That's their problem to deal with. Club have a one of the elite players right now and need to make sure they keep him.
The fact you use forward into this discussion shows why Pogba always need another extra cover not just a DM or Kante alone to cover him.This is why there is question mark among the fans how to fit Pogba into our current squad and XI. He is a deep midfielder who has the same weakness as forward which doesn’t suit to be deep midfielder. A complicated midfielder.
I’d sell Pogba as he’s only efficient in a 3 man midfield. Yes he can get in some tackles and win the ball back from time to time. But he is not consistent.
Like many pointed out, unless OGS decides to play with 2 number 8 with Bruno and Pogba and a deep lying midfielder, Pogba will simply be wasted here.
I’d get Camavinga and Kalvin Phillips (send James to Leeds).
None of the 2 are pure defensive midfielders, but are responsible enough to be able to play together in a double pivot behind Bruno.
Like many pointed out, unless OGS decides to play with 2 number 8 with Bruno and Pogba and a deep lying midfielder, Pogba will simply be wasted here.
I’d get Camavinga and Kalvin Phillips (send James to Leeds).
None of the 2 are pure defensive midfielders, but are responsible enough to be able to play together in a double pivot behind Bruno.
Another option although it’s really just an add on to your option 1 is that we give him a new contract on the coin it will take to get him signed, but we add a buy out clause for reasonable money that decreases each year. Say with a starting point of £65 mil next year and £50 the following and so on. It means he prob goes next year but we get decent money for him. Still have to put up with the circus around will he stay or go all year but there’s always a circus when dealing with Pogba anyways.
Interesting idea but imo it'd be very hard to convince Pogba and that fat cnut to accept this.
Let's say the new offer is £450k a week, so about £150k more than his current deal. Or £7.2 m a year.
If a team has to pay north £60m to buy him (which we can't find anyone willing so far) the signing on fee they'd get would be much much lower than if that team would be able to sign him on a free, in which case the fee could easily be around £20-30m.
Plus finding a club that want to sign him on a free would be hell much easier than paying +£50m to buy him.
If you think Pogba is inconsistent in his defensive duties, I don't understand why you'd wanna sign this kid in exchange.
At Juve It was not necessarily always a 3, often times it was actually a 4 with Marchisio another work horse. If Pogba was better than Bruno it would be evident. It's not.
He has incredible defending issues, I understand now why Ole does play Fred and Mc in Midfield.
You are probably right.
What if Pogba and Bruno switch? Bruno’s work rate is great, and I remember Bruno sometimes played deeper a couple of years ago (national team).
Edit: Stupid suggestion
Pogba’s strength is his offensive play from a more deep position. Maybe best to sell Pogba (€40m).
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Good points.
But think about how deep Pogba played in the last game! Kante was moore involved in the play high up and the press high up the pitch. (I see Kante as a B2B). And the work Kante did atacking and high up created good space for Pogba a bit lower. And look at the defensive work Rabiot did. In my mind France play with a lot more ability to cover up for each other, macfred and Pogba miss to many cover ups when the others go forward.
I think the defensive part comparing stats between Kante and Fred is probably simular. But going forward Kante is a lot better even if he don't score or assist very much.
I want Rice because I like a sitting/ holding midfielder to support both our CB's and Pogba. I want a pivot with Rice and Pogba with Rice the one who think defence. I want Bruno to play a bit lower, I think he end up to high to often. I want a front three, not the three + one.
Camavinga can still be molded into the CM that we are looking for, as he is still very young and has plenty of potential.
Pogba is past the learning stage, but is still inconsistent defensively. He had all these years to improve defensively, but he hasn’t done it. At Juve, he had Marchisio and Vidal as examples of workhorses and Pirlo as a deeplying maestro. He also had Keane and Scholes to look up to for overall consistency and tenacity. You would assume he’d be the perfect world-beater midfielder by now. Is he? No. Hard headed? Probably, so he won’t be changing anytime soon.
He cost us 89 million, been here for 5 years. Did his influence on the pitch improved that much? No.
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Love seeing this from him, shows class and maturity.
It has also given us almost 6 years of chopping and changing trying to fit him in at Utd. Pogba will always be a problem because he can't be trusted. His vanishing act vs Villarreal underlined that problem for us, he is never there when you need him. He just isn't worth the trouble he brings.
It's only PSG who will give us a decent amount of dosh for him. Either we sell him there or he leaves on a free next year. I don't think he will sign a new contract.
We don't need players to learn if we wanna seriously compete with Man City and the others for the biggest trophies. Camavinga might turn out into a great player one day but right now he's not the player who will bridge that gap.
I can already bet my entire life savings that in one year of playing, Camavinga would also receive the usual crazy criticism, expecting him to be and do what he was never programmed to do
Personally, I think he is worse than Scott and Fred at giving the ball away, as he will pretty always try the flashy pass or move(which is one of the reasons he is such a fun player to watch), while McFred will 9x out of 10 play the simple ball(which is why so many of us fans get infuriated by them). Of course, this is an issue if Pogba does it in deeper areas rather than on the wing or in a number 10 position but I don't think it is the main problem with Pogba playing in a midfield 2. The problem with Pogba in a midfield 2, is that when we lose possession you can't trust him to cover the ground needed by a player playing that position, Sometimes he will, some times he won't, sometimes he will be in the right position but just lets the game kind of pass him by and some times it's like he's just gone missing. It's a criticism of him that was present in his days at Juve and has been since he joined united. That's incredibly hard to take into account when your the manager setting out a team or a player playing alongside him and creates an incredible amount of uncertainty, which teams will always exploit.
This is why Pogba has always been said to play better in 3 because if he has one of his games where he just goes missing, you have 2 players who can compensate rather than 1.
Of course, I agree with the argument that against teams that are basically going to park the bus against us, you can probably get away with it with a semi-decent proper DM beside him(though as we have both said we currently don't have and likely won't have for at least next season). but I don't think you can get away with it regularly against the other top 6 or so teams in the PL or the top teams in Europe. So then what do you do with Pogba? do you drop him? move him further forward dropping someone else? With most players that wouldn't matter, as you'd simply go well not everyone can play every game so it's fine. The problem is in order to keep Pogba we will likely need to pay a Sanchez size contract, which is going to nearly or even the biggest contract in the premier league history. So when it's your highest earner, who is likely going to be on a wage that means that he is unsellable, and your struggling to know how to fit him into a team and even what his best position is, the uncertainty and scrutiny go through the roof.
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Yes, he has all the talent and skill in the world but hes never grown up and matured into a responsible, reliable asset.
We should get what ever wecan for him this summer, even 20 million is something. If we keep him he'll end up sulking again on huge wages and simply be a drain on our resources.
The thing is, he actually likes playing out wide in our lopsided 4-2-3-1 and it's essentially putting him in the same positions he used to take up at Juve either in Allegri's diamond or in Conte's 3-5-2, with even less defensive responsibility.
I don't think it's a case of us shoehorning him in there, it's moreso us finally figuring out where he can play best.
Whether that leads to him actually staying is another matter, and tbh I'm not that fussed if he stays or goes as we do seem to have good back up in almost all his preferred positions and roles when Sancho comes in.
However, if he does stay then for me, he's only ever going to be played out on the left. I don't see him ever playing in central midfield proper, outside of injuries and emergency.
People seem to ignore this.
It seems there is alot of fans who think football is the same as FIFA where you can have all out attack.
There is a reason why managers play 2 DM's which is always the stick every united fan uses to beat Ole with. If anyone looks at results / performances against big teams with / without Pogba in CM, it is obvious why we need 2 DM;s.
Pogba in a double pivot will never work because he goes to sleep way too often, he loses the ball at least 3/4 times a game where teams can transition.
I wouldn’t blame him for moving on. He wants to win the champions league, and we’re miles off that. Truth be told we’ve gotten a bit Spursy over the last couple of years. We seem to struggle to win when it really matters. This is probably the strongest squad we’ve had post Fergie but there’s a mental block. Pogba starts for every team in the world. He’s given us 5 years & only has a Europa league & a league cup to show for it.
He isn’t going to flourish for us playing DM or LW. With Bruno being given the free role i don’t see where we can play Pogba to get the best out of him. Unless we tried this
Perhaps this was an option last year, but with the Sancho signing it’s not gonna happen now.
He isn’t going to flourish for us playing DM or LW. With Bruno being given the free role i don’t see where we can play Pogba to get the best out of him. Unless we tried this
McTominay Fred Pogba
Bruno
Rashford Martial
Bruno
Rashford Martial
Perhaps this was an option last year, but with the Sancho signing it’s not gonna happen now.
Well if you read the latest rumours, Camavinga is one of the CMs we are apparently looking at.
You're right, there are rumours. I know the name wasn't used out of nowhere