the perfect summary from an unbiased ex racer.
Both could have done it better, it was a racing incident with an unlucky ending after 2 drivers played chicken, max came off worse. simple.
F1 2021 Season
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
the perfect summary from an unbiased ex racer.
Both could have done it better, it was a racing incident with an unlucky ending after 2 drivers played chicken, max came off worse. simple.
This did occur to me. I think lewis is quite a fair driver when compared to senna or schmacher. Both of those would have put max in the wall or off the track awhile ago as a warning to respect a multiple world champion. However F1 isnt liel that anymore.
The head of Aston Martin who are using which engines?
If one guy ends up touching his front wheel to the rear wheel of another driver it's not right to characterize it as some sort of even game of chicken. One of them had a better line than the other into the corner. I think people are oversimplifying a lot and not accounting for the actual characteristics of the incident.
I asked a question hours ago and not one Verstappan fan will answer. If places were reversed would max have backed out?
Max has done that a couple times this season already, so yes. Lewis has a history with this kind of thing though. Ask Albon.
that’s a really poor example to use. obviously hamilton has to back off a little to make sure he gets around the corner, max doesn’t as he has the wider line so can carry more speed. in the end that split difference is what makes the front/rear contact, but you can’t use that to lay blame.
if only max gave him more room he would have passed him on the outside no problem.
Best analysis of the incident out there. Karun knows his stuff.
Another crashtappen fan smoking the funny stuff
Exactly when has he done it ever? Nevermind this season where his aggression has been 110%
I have never seen Max pull out.
Imola and Spanish or Portugal race he basically went back out Hamilton or we crash. Hamilton backed out.
Hamilton, Kimi, Vettel, Rosberg and Button all ex champions have stated YOU HAVE TO DRIVE DIFFERENTLY WITH MAX.
Max does it all the time but that doesn't make it right to have it done to him this time
Sorry are you being ironic or are you actually 4 years old I am confused.
To the "Is the F1 2021 Season thread, safe to go into yet" thread!
I'm not a Verstappen fan, actually more of a Hamilton fan but I guess I've been in the Verstappen camp on this one so here goes:
I don't think it's even the right question. Shittiest reply, right? But it's that Hamilton was essentially already backing out... not exactly to give Verstappen all the room he wanted to take the corner any way he wanted, but because Hamilton can't take the corner flat from where he was. He downshifted at least once, maybe twice, on a corner that you can take flat on the racing line. On the Leclerc move Hamilton downshifts twice and takes the corner fairly slow to hang on given the worn tyres. He only really takes the position because Leclerc finds even less grip and can't make any sort of decent line through the corner and goes wide on the exit.
So essentially I think any driver would have backed out. If you try to take too much speed from where Hamilton was you're ending up well wide on the exit. I think Hamilton just misjudged it in terms of the grip he'd have. The track is also dirty on the inside/off-the-line as an additional factor to give him less grip than he expected.
Verstappen maybe could've lifted before turn-in, let Hamilton take the early apex and go for a later one instead, but in a corner that you don't lift your mind is mainly telling you to just find a line to carry the most speed.
Show me once when Verstappan has backed out.when fighting? Never seen it, I see him ultra aggressive and weaving alot.
I am confused, any driver should have backed out, but then you say in a corner you don't lift?
Racing incident, when Verstappan pushed Lewis off in 2 earlier races never heard people complain.
P.s. not that Lewis pushed they were both racing, and it was a shame they touched.
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Looking outside the accident now and I must say that the last 20 laps by Hamilton were some of the most sensational driving I have seen in a while . His ability to push the car to its peak ability and still not make any mistakes is pretty brilliant. I have no idea how Bottas could barely do anything in the same car
Again, are we gonna talk about the incident or just general adjectives about drivers and analogies of games of chicken?
Are you sure you've not got lost on the way to the xbox vs playstation thread?
Funny how that suits your argument though.
You’re over complicating a relatively simple matter when you break it down to its core - which is that two drivers who were competing and did not want to give an inch more than required to the other, crashed because both refused to back out. Hamilton probably justified in receiving the penalty as ultimately it was his fault, but the reality is swap the cars positions and Verstappen doesn’t do a thing differently.
He wouldn't miss the apex and go with the speed with which he would make the corner so he wouldn't had to back down.
Also in this accident he was the one stearing away from the accident but it didn't helped because Lewis was stearing into the accident.
I'm not saying that drivers should perfectly calculate everything when they have fractions of seconds for each loop of decision-feedback-decision and so on. But I do think that if you find yourself trying to turn-in to copse corner and you're closer to the inside than to the outside, you've not put yourself in a position to make an overtake and you're responsible for any contact with cars that are on or closer to the racing line. I think that if it's for 1st place in Formula 1, for 18th, and for any position in the Clio Cup as well.
For sure shit happens when racing, none of these incidents is an indictment of a driver's character. I just don't think this one is just "a racing incident" and equal fault.
Perhaps, but i was replying to someone saying just because Max has done it in the past doesn't mean Hamilton should do it.
You can't expect to be aggressive and be shocked when someone else is. Or maybe I am misunderstanding.
Obviously, huge differences in opinion. We don't know what would have happened, maybe max was carrying too much speed and went off track like the 1st lap and was allowed to gain a position. We don't know ow whether Hamilton could have took the corner at that speed.
Two things I believe is Max will still win this year and another crash will happen, as max laid down early on and Hamilton backed off. But he isn't anymore.
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I’m sorry but within this race alone Hamilton overtook Norris and Le Clerc into that corner. So I fundamentally disagree with your argument.
Also, what if Verstappen hadn’t given Hamilton space? And just turned in on him? Would Hamilton still be responsible?
I have said in this thread many times, I can understand Hamilton’s penalty. Not because he was slightly behind. Not because he “shouldn’t have been there”. But because his mistake was he missed the apex of the corner. He didn’t mean to, it wasn’t malicious. But a mistake nonetheless.
Yet whilst I can therefore understand why he got the penalty, I don’t agree with it. For me a racing incident doesn’t need equal fault. I don’t know how / if I can tangibly describe a definition for a racing incident. But what makes this one for me, is that both drivers had opportunities to avoid it. Both could have given more space or backed off. But they didn’t. Because they were competing. And CRUCIALLY, I don’t think either drive does anything differently if the roles were reversed. If anything, Hamilton backs out more likely if he was in Verstappens role (not because it’s the right thing, but because he is more mature at this stage of his career and understands the risk / reward balance better, especially when you factor in which car is faster and the gap in the championship).
The only mistake Max made was giving Lewis any respect into that corner. Next time he’ll learn to either put Lewis in the wall or take both cars out. Only max had something to lose in that move.
Lewis doing the same shit he pulled last time he was in a title fight against Rosberg… not surprising.
Lewis doing the same shit he pulled last time he was in a title fight against Rosberg… not surprising.
Along with Max and his record of this kind of weaving.
To clarify, I enjoy watching Max racing but he is no angel, quite the opposite.
Rubbish. This season Max has had the faster car yet Lewis is still in the fight.
But there is more evidence than only this season. This ex driver says it very clearly.
https://www.essentiallysports.com/f...-on-max-verstappen-and-his-dangerous-driving/
It's like he's in a different formula.
I have no idea how he can make the tyres last that long and still keep up that pace. I thought he would end up ruining his tyres and just coming up short, or getting close to Leclerc and start suffering ,but nope he just powers through.
Compare it to Bottas and it's just a night and day difference. He really is special.
Shame about the incident with Max but what a performance.
So combined with my initial post on this video, this is obviously a racing incident.
Lewis was level, Max had weaved dangerously, either could've backed out.
What was the maximum G accident that had with each other then? Have you checked the records?
Correct.
Fanboys will disagree but it should have gone down as a racing incident.
What I didn't like watching the incident first time and studying the replays is just how wild Max was weaving to break the tow. He knew he was going to get overtaken easily, he dives over to the right then jumps back out to the left then just turns in hard right as if Lewis was never over 3/4 of a car alongside, Lewis actually lifts and drops back but unfortunately they tag.
Lewis is about 90% alongside, half a front wing length in it, this is the moment Max had gone back out to the left after weaving to the right
Lewis lifts and drops back and Max turns in pretty hard considering they were just side by side and the amount of weaving going on by Max. It wasn't a careless send up the inside. Max knew he was there alongside and was weaving frantically to break the tow and closed him out. Max wasn't optimally going to take the corner like on a solo lap, far from it and should slowed a little like Lewis to both go around. Lewis was legitimately making a move, made it on a desperately weaving Max. You can't just turn the corner into solo mode after what transpired fractions of a second before. This wasn't a normal copse entry for Max. I'd call it a racing incident.
Lewis is about 90% alongside, half a front wing length in it, this is the moment Max had gone back out to the left after weaving to the right
Lewis lifts and drops back and Max turns in pretty hard considering they were just side by side and the amount of weaving going on by Max. It wasn't a careless send up the inside. Max knew he was there alongside and was weaving frantically to break the tow and closed him out. Max wasn't optimally going to take the corner like on a solo lap, far from it and should slowed a little like Lewis to both go around. Lewis was legitimately making a move, made it on a desperately weaving Max. You can't just turn the corner into solo mode after what transpired fractions of a second before. This wasn't a normal copse entry for Max. I'd call it a racing incident.
Good post.
Actually there had been comment on Max weaving around on the track today multiple times, again, and also the fact that either driver could've backed out.
Because both drivers caused the incident. Even the FIA did not say it was 100% Hamiltons fault. Get a grip.
ExactlyWhat I didn't like watching the incident first time and studying the replays is just how wild Max was weaving to break the tow. He knew he was going to get overtaken easily, he dives over to the right then jumps back out to the left then just turns in hard right as if Lewis was never over 3/4 of a car alongside, Lewis actually lifts and drops back but unfortunately they tag.
Lewis is about 90% alongside, half a front wing length in it, this is the moment Max had gone back out to the left after weaving to the right
Lewis lifts and drops back and Max turns in pretty hard considering they were just side by side and the amount of weaving going on by Max. It wasn't a careless send up the inside. Max knew he was there alongside and was weaving frantically to break the tow and closed him out. Max wasn't optimally going to take the corner like on a solo lap, far from it and should slowed a little like Lewis to both go around. Lewis was legitimately making a move, made it on a desperately weaving Max. You can't just turn the corner into solo mode after what transpired fractions of a second before. This wasn't a normal copse entry for Max. I'd call it a racing incident.
People that say Max was always in front are just being purposely obtuse.
It's a racing incident every time. I've already said it before but Max's biggest error was allowing Hamilton to get inside him on a right hand corner. He should have held the middle of the track and forced Lewis to go outside him, he would have known he couldn't take the corner at that speed with full fuel and would have backed out ready to have a go again at the next straight.
It never been this bad i recall even when Rosberg/ Hamilton crashed at Catalan. Max's fan and Lewis haters really come out in full force calling him all sort of thing.
BLM thing was my favourite. God knows how it was even related to this race.
BLM thing was my favourite. God knows how it was even related to this race.
Crashtappen
Not gonna waste my time arguing with you.
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This still going?
Also 'crashtappen' is howling patter.
Also 'crashtappen' is howling patter.
Good analysis.What I didn't like watching the incident first time and studying the replays is just how wild Max was weaving to break the tow. He knew he was going to get overtaken easily, he dives over to the right then jumps back out to the left then just turns in hard right as if Lewis was never over 3/4 of a car alongside, Lewis actually lifts and drops back but unfortunately they tag.
Lewis is about 90% alongside, half a front wing length in it, this is the moment Max had gone back out to the left after weaving to the right
Lewis lifts and drops back and Max turns in pretty hard considering they were just side by side and the amount of weaving going on by Max. It wasn't a careless send up the inside. Max knew he was there alongside and was weaving frantically to break the tow and closed him out. Max wasn't optimally going to take the corner like on a solo lap, far from it and should slowed a little like Lewis to both go around. Lewis was legitimately making a move, made it on a desperately weaving Max. You can't just turn the corner into solo mode after what transpired fractions of a second before. This wasn't a normal copse entry for Max. I'd call it a racing incident.
Max has done this weaving to a number of other drivers who have highlighted it. Kimi and Vettel for example.