F1 2021 Season

Henrik Larsson said:
Was about to say, I’ve now seen various people in this thread claiming that Verstappen somehow was the lucky one in Baku... I mean there’s being a little biased and delusional, and then there’s that.

There’s also two or three blokes who constantly claim it’s never luck with Hamilton and they’re actually being serious, every single little thing that falls his way is because of his talent according to them :lol:
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Yeah, and those who will constantly moan that Hamilton is the luckiest most overrated driver ever.

Sadly objectivity is lost far too often in this thread right now.
 
Jev said:
And Hamilton was fortunate Verstappen crashed out of contention. In terms of net luck Max was certainly in the negative today.
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I don't know why you're being so obtuse, people are capable of being both fortunate and unfortunate, even at the same time. Given what happened at the start of this race, which was very unfortunate for verstappen, he is now fortunate to not be further behind in the title race.

It's not a difficult concept to understand frankly.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
Watching after the race, think maybe Lewis did the right thing at the time, as pointed out to me, he was told rain was due, clearly did not see the other cars pitting.
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He was first so would have passed the pit lane by the time they started pitting?
 
LordNinio said:
I don't know why you're being so obtuse, people are capable of being both fortunate and unfortunate, even at the same time. Given what happened at the start of this race, which was very unfortunate for verstappen, he is now fortunate to not be further behind in the title race.

It's not a difficult concept to understand frankly.
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Oh it is for a select few, look back over the recent pages and it’s pretty apparent who those folks are.
 
Henrik Larsson said:
Was about to say, I’ve now seen various people in this thread claim that Verstappen somehow was the lucky one in Baku... I mean there’s being a little biased and delusional, and then there’s that.

There’s also two or three blokes who constantly claim it’s never luck with Hamilton and they’re actually being serious, every single little thing that falls his way is because of his talent according to them :lol:
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See above, saying a situation is fortunate, does not preclude them from also being unfortunate. I did not compare the fortunes of Hamilton and verstappen so that point is moot
 
LordNinio said:
I don't know why you're being so obtuse, people are capable of being both fortunate and unfortunate, even at the same time. Given what happened at the start of this race, which was very unfortunate for verstappen, he is now fortunate to not be further behind in the title race.

It's not a difficult concept to understand frankly.
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You're the one who framed two races where Verstappen was clearly 'net unlucky' as fortunate for him, which was what I was reacting too. So I'd argue you're the one struggling to grasp the concept of being fortunate and unfortunate at the same time.
 
hellhunter said:
Could also be due to his LGBTQ-remarks in regards to Hungarys new law.
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Nah. Vettel was more outspoken, had a rainbow face mask, stripes on his helmet and was hugely cheered. Plus I don’t imagine the crowd at the F1 is the same as the ultra fans who were at the football.

I’d be shocked if it wasn’t the Dutch fans because we hear it at most races in Europe.
 
Whatever the rights or wrongs, have to say that it was an exciting and very interesting race. Especially on a track that is so difficult to pass.
Fantastic for Alpine/Renault and Ocon. And Williams.
Some of the overtaking was breathless.
Proper racing.
 
Jev said:
You're the one who framed two races where Verstappen was clearly 'net unlucky' as fortunate for him, which was what I was reacting too. So I'd argue you're the one struggling to grasp the concept of being fortunate and unfortunate at the same time.
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Well, if you read the conversation you would see that I was clearly stating that despite what happened, he is fortunate to not be in a worse situation than he is. I didn't mention net luck, or compare his fortune to Hamiltons.


I repeat, it is quite easily possible to be both fortunate and unfortunate.
 
LordNinio said:
Well, if you read the conversation you would see that I was clearly stating that despite what happened, he is fortunate to not be in a worse situation than he is. I didn't mention net luck, or compare his fortune to Hamiltons.


I repeat, it is quite easily possible to be both fortunate and unfortunate.
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Perhaps it would be better to say something like "Max was extremely unlucky today but it could have been even worse had Alonso not defended against Hamilton so brilliantly" or similar.
 
LordNinio said:
Well, if you read the conversation you would see that I was clearly stating that despite what happened, he is fortunate to not be in a worse situation than he is. I didn't mention net luck, or compare his fortune to Hamiltons.


I repeat, it is quite easily possible to be both fortunate and unfortunate.
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So instead of being extremely unfortunate, he was just very unfortunate?
 
senorgregster said:
Yeah, my point is red bull are no longer focused on winning races. A break should diffuse the air a bit and then they can start dominating again. I do think they are still favorites.
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What makes you say that? Quite sure winning races is still their main focus. Why wouldn't it?
 
What an incredible race, well done to Ocon and Vettel. Great recovery drive from Lewis. Unlucky being the leader on the formation lap, just too late to see that everyone was coming in. Sure Mercedes will learn from that.

Also well done to max to get a point and also Williams getting both cars in the points.

Brilliant, brilliant race.
 
Adam-Utd said:
and what about the red bull team member racially abusing hamilton? you think he’d do that unless he was fired up from his team bosses? not a chance.

Horner needs to be more responsible.
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Yes I do believe he’d do that, racist cnuts don’t need cheerleaders to be racist cnuts.
 
Eendracht maakt macht said:
What makes you say that? Quite sure winning races is still their main focus. Why wouldn't it?
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They probably would have been better off using testing time on the track for testing setups rather than using a driver to simulate an incident from the race before to be fair.

I know it was an older car
 
Was just a great race.

I was never a fan of Vettel and Alonso but both were brilliant racing. Vettel also for his LGBTQ support and Alonso for being such a wonderful team mate. Looking forward to more from Ocon. What pressure for basically the entire race. Very unfortunate for RB due to Bottas' error, obviously a big blow for Max especially. He's got to kick on now and I think he will.
 
rpitroda said:
:lol: except it isn’t just that is it.
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Oh no I get that Hamilton and Mercedes having a brain fart is also part of it. I'm just saying how you word these things matters. Saying Max was somehow lucky this race is just a bit weird. It's not like Hamilton's/Mercs brain fart or Max getting torpedoed is even remotely comparable when you look at the impact it had on the race. So no, Max wasn't lucky at all. But yes, it could have been even worse.
 
Hate to be the bearer of bum tidings, but from reading the autosport forums some poster is logging the formation lap conversations between driver and pitwall. This was Ocons:

O: "As soon as we can pit it's gonna be good to do so"
PW: "So you can come in at the end of this lap if you want to, let us know"
O: "Well I guess I'm second, so, not really, what do you think, completely dry"
PW:" Standby, standing start, I'll get back to you shortly"
PW: "Okay Esteban, Box box box box"
O: "Copy"

Last year Haas were hit with a double penalty for instructing their drivers to pit during the formation lap. Anyone know if the reg's have changed?
 
Ekkie Thump said:
Hate to be the bearer of bum tidings, but from reading the autosport forums some poster is logging the formation lap conversations between driver and pitwall. This was Ocons:

O: "As soon as we can pit it's gonna be good to do so"
PW: "So you can come in at the end of this lap if you want to, let us know"
O: "Well I guess I'm second, so, not really, what do you think, completely dry"
PW:" Standby, standing start, I'll get back to you shortly"
PW: "Okay Esteban, Box box box box"
PW: "Copy"

Last year Haas were hit with a double penalty for instructing their drivers to pit during the formation lap. Anyone know if the reg's have changed?
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The commentators were saying that there should be no instructions on the formation lap so if that's happened that's not good news :(
 
Ekkie Thump said:
Hate to be the bearer of bum tidings, but from reading the autosport forums some poster is logging the formation lap conversations between driver and pitwall. This was Ocons:

O: "As soon as we can pit it's gonna be good to do so"
PW: "So you can come in at the end of this lap if you want to, let us know"
O: "Well I guess I'm second, so, not really, what do you think, completely dry"
PW:" Standby, standing start, I'll get back to you shortly"
PW: "Okay Esteban, Box box box box"
PW: "Copy"

Last year Haas were hit with a double penalty for instructing their drivers to pit during the formation lap. Anyone know if the reg's have changed?
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The team cannot talk to the drive on the formation lap. If thats happen i think Ocon may lose his GP win.

Bottas and Stroll both been give 5 place grid drops for Spa.
 
dinostar77 said:
The team cannot talk to the drive on the formation lap. If thats happen i think Ocon may lose his GP win.

Bottas and Stroll both been give 5 place grid drops for Spa.
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That's bad news then. Here's the autosport post logging the conversations. You can clearly see a lot of the teams dancing round the idea of pitting, with the majority trying to force the driver to make the call while hinting at the decision they would favour. Given the weird flow of the conversations I think the regulation might be that the driver cannot receive instruction, but the pit wall can. Unfortunately enough Ocon and Tsunoda's radio would seem to violate that rule (if indeed it exists).
 
Ekkie Thump said:
Hate to be the bearer of bum tidings, but from reading the autosport forums some poster is logging the formation lap conversations between driver and pitwall. This was Ocons:

O: "As soon as we can pit it's gonna be good to do so"
PW: "So you can come in at the end of this lap if you want to, let us know"
O: "Well I guess I'm second, so, not really, what do you think, completely dry"
PW:" Standby, standing start, I'll get back to you shortly"
PW: "Okay Esteban, Box box box box"
O: "Copy"

Last year Haas were hit with a double penalty for instructing their drivers to pit during the formation lap. Anyone know if the reg's have changed?
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Not seeing anything on Sky or BBC or anywhere other than autosports.
Hoping that there is no penalty for him, but if its true, then something might come of it.
 
Very fun race, but I can't help feeling it's a bit shit that two cars are so far ahead of everybody else that one can pretty much voluntarily start from the back and would have still won by miles on any other track but this and Monaco, while the other runs solidly in midfield while being held together by duct tape. Nothing new for F1 of course, I guess.
 
Enjoy this thread so much every time Lewis does well , some people really struggle to accept greatness.
 
ArjenIsM3 said:
Oh no I get that Hamilton and Mercedes having a brain fart is also part of it. I'm just saying how you word these things matters. Saying Max was somehow lucky this race is just a bit weird. It's not like Hamilton's/Mercs brain fart or Max getting torpedoed is even remotely comparable when you look at the impact it had on the race. So no, Max wasn't lucky at all. But yes, it could have been even worse.
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No, the only reason it matters from your perspective is because you’re a Max fan. It is not incorrect to say that things could be significantly worse for Max if those few things didn’t happen. In the same way that Hamilton was lucky because Max got taken out by something out of his control, surely Max can be seen as lucky if his opposition cocks something up (equally out of his control)? And before you state the obvious that one was not the fault of Red Bull or Max, whereas Merc and Hamilton’s faults were their own making? I know that. Anyway, it’s debating semantics. It’s without doubt Max has been unlucky today. And unlucky when his tyre burst in Baku. But also correct to say that Max had SOME control today - if he had been faster yesterday he wouldn’t have been in this position. And it’s also correct to say that he had SOME silver lining by the fact that Merc, in both cases, failed to capitalise like they should have.

However you word it, all of that is just fact. If you had to rank who was the more unluckier of the two this year, of course Max would be. But at the same time, the reality is anyone who has ever one anything in sport has probably had luck fall their way at some point or other. That is just professional sport in all disciplines. So sitting around debating how someone should word saying someone had some good and bad luck is adding a layer of pointless debate to something that already is pointless.
 
senorgregster said:
Yeah, my point is red bull are no longer focused on winning races. A break should diffuse the air a bit and then they can start dominating again. I do think they are still favorites.
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Based on what? Obviously Max and Red Bull were focussed on the race. In the interview he even shut down questions about Silverstone. Horner and a bunch of lawyers filing an appeal with the FIA doesn't really change that. They're also clearly no longer favourites if they ever really were, which is debatable. The Mercs were faster during qualifying two races in a row and they're ahead on points (both in constructors and in drivers standings). Then when you look at the damage Red Bull have had, factoring in that they'll probably need an extra engine which will automatically mean a penalty for them and the impact the repairs will have financially with the cost cap. I think the financial side could even impact next season.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
That's bad news then. Here's the autosport post logging the conversations. You can clearly see a lot of the teams dancing round the idea of pitting, with the majority trying to force the driver to make the call while hinting at the decision they would favour. Given the weird flow of the conversations I think the regulation might be that the driver cannot receive instruction, but the pit wall can. Unfortunately enough Ocon and Tsunoda's radio would seem to violate that rule (if indeed it exists).
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Aston Martin must be bringing this to the attention of the stewards surely.
 
ArjenIsM3 said:
Based on what? Obviously Max and Red Bull were focussed on the race. In the interview he even shut down questions about Silverstone. Horner and a bunch of lawyers filing an appeal with the FIA doesn't really change that. They're also clearly no longer favourites if they ever really were, which is debatable. The Mercs were faster during qualifying two races in a row and they're ahead on points (both in constructors and in drivers standings). Then when you look at the damage Red Bull have had, factoring in that they'll probably need an extra engine which will automatically mean a penalty for them and the impact the repairs will have financially with the cost cap. I think the financial side could even impact next season.
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Did he do it in a normal calm way or did he drop multiple f bombs? :lol:
 
Would be tough on Ocon. I wonder if everyone else obeyed the rules? It was so funny to see Hamilton by himself. Reminiscent of US grand prix with the dodgy tires.
 
That would be a killer if Ocon lost his win because his engineers told him to pit.

Hamilton was blaming his team for the decision to stay on intermediates though so maybe there is more radio talk allowed on the formation lap this year?
 
Hungarian GP Result
�
PostionDriverNumberTeamGridPitsFastest LapRace TimePoints
1Esteban Ocon31Alpine831:21.4212:04:43.199225
2Sebastian Vettel5Aston Martin1031:21.4591.859 behind18
3Lewis Hamilton44Mercedes141:18.7152.736 behind15
4Carlos Sainz Jnr55Ferrari1531:21.42315.018 behind12
5Fernando Alonso14Alpine931:20.35915.651 behind10
6Pierre Gasly10AlphaTauri54
fastest overall lap 1:18.334		1:03.614 behind8
7Yuki Tsunoda22AlphaTauri1631:22.4501:15.803 behind6
8Nicholas Latifi6Williams1831:22.8311:17.910 behind4
9George Russell63Williams1731:22.1121:19.094 behind2
10Max Verstappen33Red Bull351:20.9451:20.244 behind1
11Kimi Raikkonen7Alfa Romeo1341:21.5181 lap behind0
12Daniel Ricciardo3McLaren1131:22.8021 lap behind0
13Mick Schumacher47Haas2031:22.7111 lap behind0
14Antonio Giovinazzi99Alfa Romeo1451:22.7361 lap behind0
not classifiedNikita Mazepin9Haas192not available-did not finish completed 30
not classifiedLando Norris4McLaren61not available-did not finish completed 2 l0
not classifiedValtteri Bottas77Mercedes20not available-did not finish completed 00
not classifiedSergio Perez11Red Bull40not available-did not finish completed 00
not classifiedCharles Leclerc16Ferrari70not available-did not finish completed 00
not classifiedLance Stroll18Aston Martin120not available-did not finish completed 00
 
senorgregster said:
Sainz and Vettel also?
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Yeah, reading through the transcript Sainz is pretty blatant if it's not allowed to come from the team. Vettel may get away with it because he made the decision and they replied that they were keen.
 
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