My initial point was this - cops don’t keep us safe. They drain resources away from communities that actually need them the most. Even amid a pandemic, their refusal to get vaccinated is more proof of this. All while getting paid by taxpayer dollars. But sure let’s talk about speeding tickets for some weird reason.
Cop in America doing a bad job, again
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Is your argument that law enforcement does absolutely nothing to keep us safe? Nothing? Zilch? Zero?
Yup, they are pretty useless and usually make matters worse( in this case refusing to get vaccinated).
Yeah, so if your position is an absolute "police do shit for anything" we have no avenue for discussion. People who live in absolute worlds have absolutely zero grounding in reality and can not be taken seriously.
There is nothing to discuss and that is my point. Even in situations such as ticketing someone for speeding, drunk driving, etc cops still manage to harm those with who they come in contact with. Just look at how many videos there are in this thread where the cop is just ‘pulling someone over’ for speeding, expired tags, etc. The way cops are trained or taught to interact with people is inherently flawed. So even if you have a cop who manages to get a drunk driver off the streets, tens of them are still going to cause harm doing the exact thing. This is why reform never works and a total overhaul is the only solution.
I don't see how someone can argue that police don't serve a very important part of society, and are needed. This thread highlights the negative aspects for good reason, as it pushes for those parts to be removed, but it is baffling to think someone can say the police absolutely do nothing good for society.
Awesome, so we are in agreement that law enforcement, in general, does things to keep us safe. Glad we had this breakthrough!
No, because cops aren’t even capable of handing out speeding tickets(a stupid example of cops keeping us safe btw) without killing or causing harm to those they come in contact with. This is why people fear for their lives when they are pulled over by cops.
I think I get it now, you are actually pro police and have been using reductio ad absurdum to prove the point. Very clever and well played.
People shouldn’t have to fear for their lives when pulled over by cops. Nowhere else in the world is this a life or death situation except in the U.S.
Why are police dealing with speeding tickets anyway? Or any small infractions really. You don't need the people who are trained to deal with armed violence for that - that's where it goes wrong.
Wouldn't it be better to split up responsibilities between organizations whose staff are actually trained for their job? Like bylaw/infraction officers, mental health first respondents (both of which exist already but need expanded mandates and budgets), neighbourhood officers (people that circulate by bike so they have an idea of what's happening in neighbourhoods and people have someone from their public service to talk to who's easily accessible) - and finally a service that deals with armed situations (which is the only one that would need to carry weapons). Not just in the US, of course.
Wouldn't it be better to split up responsibilities between organizations whose staff are actually trained for their job? Like bylaw/infraction officers, mental health first respondents (both of which exist already but need expanded mandates and budgets), neighbourhood officers (people that circulate by bike so they have an idea of what's happening in neighbourhoods and people have someone from their public service to talk to who's easily accessible) - and finally a service that deals with armed situations (which is the only one that would need to carry weapons). Not just in the US, of course.
I disagree with none of that. That still does not mean that LE does nothing to provide for the safety of society.
I agree with this. Police should not be involved in traffic (tickets, accidents, etc.). Many cities do have a parking enforcement that is sperate from LE, but I don't know of anyone that does it for traffic.
To be fair, one could argue that it is the laws and not the law enforcement that keeps people in line.
One could argue that. One would be wrong, but one could argue that. Humans as a whole do not do well with rules unless they know there is a potential for consequences should they ignore the rules. Just think of any rec league footy match you played in where the ref crew didn't show. Carnage, absolute carnage.
The consequence is enshrined in the law as well. Speeding and red light bylaws, for example, can be enforced by technology with very little human involvement (I understand they usually have some guy who is stuck at a desk role doing QA)
My personal opinion is that LE does not spend enough time doing traffic enforcement.
Enforcement is what keeps people in line. Law just creates a common standard for that enforcement.
It's all about generating revenue, sadly. Tickets paid.
You get some random to ref instead, and it turns out fine.
just heard about this at the anarcho-syndicalist commune
Literally all my interactions with the cops in the US have stunk.
Why do you think black people don't call the cops in the US? We're paranoid idiots?
Switzerland and the Nordic countries give a persuasive argument against your second point. They all have a very low police presence per capita, and both are among the countries with the lowest crime rates in the world. Contrast that to countries with really large police forces and a really heavy emphasis on enforcement, such as the US and Israel, and it's hard to argue that more police and stricter enforcement leads to less violence or crime.
I think that police forces that assume their role relies on violence and violent enforcement of law leads inevitably to more violence. A good ref does not enforce the letter of the law on every occasion.
Look at this librul lefty soft-on-crime commie, wants to let the crimnuls run riot.
No I don't think people whose views are formed by negative interactions are paranoid idiots. Not only that, but I think those views are justified by studies and data that show that the interactions and outcomes that black or brown person have with LE are more likely to be negative than those by white people. It's not paranoia when it can be proven. We have too much policing in this country, and beyond that the policing we have is relatively poor based on poor training and hiring practices. Our police forces are responsible for things they have no business being responsible for and they are often not held accountable for violent and biased actions they commit.
My argument here was never we police correctly in this country, just that policing provides some good. I am not arguing for a zero sum viewpoint, I am arguing against it.
True, but there is still a ref.
Right. So get someone else than the cops to hand out traffic tickets. In fact, when you use those camera thingies you won't ever meet a cop, that's a nice system. Annoting when you get the letter, though.
You can probably do something equivalent with most police work.
yep, completely agree.
theyre just a gang of sociopathic thugs
He clearly wasn't afraid for his safety and took the opportunity to kill an animal for his own pleasure knowing he could manipulate the facts afterwards to get away with it.
The last type of person who should be in a position of authority.
I know this is a serious thread, but that guys neck/chin/face/whatever is like a cartoon 
Not quite exactly how Nazi Germany started but by Jove them Nazis would be proud.
Take it for what you will, but officers aren’t happy about this getting pushed down either.
I know this is a serious thread, but that guys neck/chin/face/whatever is like a cartoon
assumed he'd put some photoshop but it's on his legal firm website too
To be fair criticism of this would be criticism of the brass who decided on this approach and not so much line officers, who probably fecking hate the additional work. I'd even be inclined to suggest many line officers are uncomfortable doing it.
I'd love to know when the lapd was the epitome of law enforcementOur field interview cards mirror lapd's, and has the section to put social media profile. The article makes it seem like officers are "ordered" or "directed" to write fill out this info, but I highly doubt that's the case. There is a section for social security numbers too. Sometimes people freely give their SSN and social media profiles, sometimes they don't and that's fine. Officers do need to be careful in "demanding" this or any info other than what's necessary to run a basic criminal history check.
If not them, then who would you say is?
Wikipedia rampart