Top 4 Squad Comparison - City, United, Liverpool, Chelsea
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Spurs, West Ham, United and Chelsea are the top 4 teams currently 
Spurs, West Ham, United and Chelsea are the top 4 teams currently
Last seasons Top 4, I guess!
If any of those teams fail to get top 4 (unless they have a lot of injuries) then something is really wrong. A lot of great talent there and it feels like they could pull away from the other usual top 4 contenders.
Weaknesses/question marks for me are:
United's midfield/right back
City's strikers
Chelsea's keeper...I think Mendy has looked decent but i'm not 100% sure about him sometimes
Liverpool's overall squad depth. Their first 11 is easily a match for anyone.
Weaknesses/question marks for me are:
United's midfield/right back
City's strikers
Chelsea's keeper...I think Mendy has looked decent but i'm not 100% sure about him sometimes
Liverpool's overall squad depth. Their first 11 is easily a match for anyone.
This is their biggest issue and why it's great Klopp seems a bit pissed about transfers (or lack thereof). Feel like if Man/Salah go to AFCON they will struggle to keep up with the rest.
Under Pochettino, Spurs was considered a stable top four team. How times has changed.
No doubt that this should be the same top four this season. Liverpool are the only club that will be excused if they didn’t make top four has they haven’t strengthened in awhile.
No doubt that this should be the same top four this season. Liverpool are the only club that will be excused if they didn’t make top four has they haven’t strengthened in awhile.
Removing the same amount of key players in each position per team here are the strongest possible line ups:
Liverpool:
Kelleher
Neco Gomez Konate Tsimikas
Jones Keita Ox
Elliott Jota Minamino
Utd:
Cavani Greenwood Martial
VdB Matic Lingard
Telles Bailly Lindelof Dalot
Henderson
Chelsea:
Kepa
Sarr Azpi Silva Chalobah Alonso
Niguaz Loftus
Ziyech Werner Odoi
Keeper: 1) Utd, 2) Liverpool, 3) Chelsea
Defence: 1) Chelsea, 2) Liverpool, 3) Utd
Midfield: 1) Liverpool, 2) Chelsea, 3) Utd
Forwards: 1) Utd, 2) Chelsea, 3) Liverpool
Midfield was the very closest battle but with the number of PL games played gave it to Liverpool. Niguaz hasn't even played yet. Utd badly lacking here.
Utd come last twice, but also the only team that comes first twice. Strikers blowing away the opposition by a long way. Arguably the most important position in a squad.
All in all the difference in squads isn't as clear cut as first thought. Doing City is pointless.
Liverpool:
Kelleher
Neco Gomez Konate Tsimikas
Jones Keita Ox
Elliott Jota Minamino
Utd:
Cavani Greenwood Martial
VdB Matic Lingard
Telles Bailly Lindelof Dalot
Henderson
Chelsea:
Kepa
Sarr Azpi Silva Chalobah Alonso
Niguaz Loftus
Ziyech Werner Odoi
Keeper: 1) Utd, 2) Liverpool, 3) Chelsea
Defence: 1) Chelsea, 2) Liverpool, 3) Utd
Midfield: 1) Liverpool, 2) Chelsea, 3) Utd
Forwards: 1) Utd, 2) Chelsea, 3) Liverpool
Midfield was the very closest battle but with the number of PL games played gave it to Liverpool. Niguaz hasn't even played yet. Utd badly lacking here.
Utd come last twice, but also the only team that comes first twice. Strikers blowing away the opposition by a long way. Arguably the most important position in a squad.
All in all the difference in squads isn't as clear cut as first thought. Doing City is pointless.
Kelleher over Kepa? Come on mate, I know Kepa is a meme but this is laughable - has Kelleher even made 5 PL appearances?
The way you've done Chelsea players is slightly off as well - Azpi is in the first XI and Sarr plays as LCB; CHO becomes RWB and Pulisic comes into the attack. Also, our backup midfield is Niguez / Kovacic, not Niguez / RLC.
Thus, Chelsea look like this:
Kepa
CHO-Chalobah-Silva-Sarr-Alonso
Kovacic-Niguez
Ziyech-Werner-Pulisic
Rankings for me on this basis are:
GK: 1. United, 2. Chelsea, 3. Liverpool
DEF: 1. Chelsea 2. Liverpool 3. United
MID: 1. Chelsea 2. Liverpool 3. United (big gap between 2 and 3 here to be fair)
ATK: 1. United 2. Chelsea 3. Liverpool
I gave 1-6 (subjectively of course) for 2 keepers, 7 defenders, 6 midfielders and 5 forwards for each team, and came up wit this:
GK: City 8, the rest 7
DF: Livp 33, United 31, City 30, Chelsea 29
MI: City 31, United and Chelsea 26, Livp 25
FW: United and Chelsea 24, Livp and City 23
Total:
1. City 92
2. Livp and United 88
4. Chelsea 86
Pretty even steven, with City a horse’s head in front.
GK: City 8, the rest 7
DF: Livp 33, United 31, City 30, Chelsea 29
MI: City 31, United and Chelsea 26, Livp 25
FW: United and Chelsea 24, Livp and City 23
Total:
1. City 92
2. Livp and United 88
4. Chelsea 86
Pretty even steven, with City a horse’s head in front.
City clearly takes it depth wise overall. Other teams might have better top quality but no one has the depth of just good players. No surprise there.
United clearly have the best options for forwards. But also have the weakest non-creative midfield options. Top tier back line defensively but not as good of depth there as other sides.
Chelsea dominate midfield and defense options but lack the attacking quality overall that City and United have.
Liverpool have a very good first XI and some nice defensive depth but lack depth the the final two thirds anywhere.
Overall I’d say City have the best overall squad, with United probably 2nd but with the notable hole at certain midfield spots and Chelsea right there with them. Liverpool is a close 4th with a first XI that can go toe to toe with anyone in the world.
United clearly have the best options for forwards. But also have the weakest non-creative midfield options. Top tier back line defensively but not as good of depth there as other sides.
Chelsea dominate midfield and defense options but lack the attacking quality overall that City and United have.
Liverpool have a very good first XI and some nice defensive depth but lack depth the the final two thirds anywhere.
Overall I’d say City have the best overall squad, with United probably 2nd but with the notable hole at certain midfield spots and Chelsea right there with them. Liverpool is a close 4th with a first XI that can go toe to toe with anyone in the world.
They're all susceptible to a big injury. Liverpool with pretty everyone bar the CBs(except 3 of them are injury prone in general, so....), United at CB and CM, City can't afford to lose Cancelo and Chelsea with Mendy
All in all City have the best squad, chelsea the deepest, United the most individual attacking talent. I reserve judgement on Liverpool. On paper they have the second best starting XI, but I want to see whether last season was an accident or something more wrt Thiago, Mane and Firmino
Anyways, as it stands, City>Chelsea>=United>=Liverpool
All in all City have the best squad, chelsea the deepest, United the most individual attacking talent. I reserve judgement on Liverpool. On paper they have the second best starting XI, but I want to see whether last season was an accident or something more wrt Thiago, Mane and Firmino
Anyways, as it stands, City>Chelsea>=United>=Liverpool
I took 2 main CBs and both main FBs out. That's why Azpi remained in the team even though he's played in the first team.
Then I took everyone's best four midfielders out, Kovacic was the fourth for you. Finally I took out everyone's best three forwards, so you can't use Pulisic.
Kepa is your Karius. I'm a better goalie than him.
I took 2 main CBs and both main FBs out. That's why Azpi remained in the team even though he's played in the first team.
Then I took everyone's best four midfielders out, Kovacic was the fourth for you. Finally I took out everyone's best three forwards, so you can't use Pulisic.
Kepa is your Karius. I'm a better goalie than him.
Ah I see - apologies, I assumed you'd taken out the first XI.
Kepa's been somewhat better since Tuchel came in, to be fair (FA cup final aside).
You are aware that Kepa hasn't saved a shot since he has been at Chelsea that has been travelling to the top left hand corner aren't you? His save percentage over 3 and a bit seasons in the league is something like 55% (whilst playing for Chelsea and not a team like Huddersfield) and his goals expected is something like an average of -12 a season.
Whilst, it may be a stretch to say Kellher is better as we don't have enough evidence, it isn't madness for people to say they do not want Kepa anywhere near their team with those stats.
Oh trust me, I was banging on about the need to replace Kepa after 19/20 when he was historically bad. That said, last year his save percentage bounced back (~68%), and his PSxG +/- was more or less average (-0.6).
If it's 19/20 Kepa I think it's entirely justified to pick anyone else including a broomstick; if it's Kepa under Tuchel I'd lean towards him over someone with no experience at the PL level.
We finished 2nd and strengthened more than chelsea and city and miles more than Liverpool.
So any suggestion we should be further from the top this season is absolute nonsense.
So any suggestion we should be further from the top this season is absolute nonsense.
Liverpool were plagued with injuries last season. They will be a lot better this year.
You spent a lot of money on players and salaries for sure. A lottttt of money. But you spent it on strengthening in a position you excelled at already (scoring goals).
Apart from Varane you've neglected the rest of your team (no cover for your FBs, the whole of your defensive midfield is very weak even when McFred are playing, etc).
So maybe the vast amounts of money you spent doesn't necessarily equate to a strengthening of the squad as much as you would have hoped for.
We have Telles and Dalot as FB cover, how many FBs do we need?
Yep, Liverpool don't spend money on salaries, only Manutd do.
We had alot of 0-0 draws last season so, clearly you are misinformed on our deficiencies, we have not had a RW since Nani and we signed a RW.
The signing of Ronaldo was not planned, when a player like him becomes available for the price, you make moves.
We had areas of weakness, CB, RW, CDM and we addressed 2/3 of them, so how is that neglecting?
No cover for full backs? We have probably one of the best backup LB's in Telles and we have Dalot at RB. I am not sure why you'd need more, worse comes to worse we can play an academy product there.
If Telles and Dalot start against Newcastle, this forum would lose its collective mind, wouldn't it?
I'm a huge fan of Shaw and AWB but there seems to be a huge drop off in quality in their replacements.
So obvious to see that United needed another midfielder. Swap VDB, Lingard and Mata for one top class number 6 and they have the best squad in my book.
Undoubtedly there is. In comparison to Liverpool though? They’ve a couple of pub players as back up.
Agree with your ranking.
Ofcourse, that's why they are back up players. If Lindelof, Bailly starts also they will get lot of shit when the line ups are announced.
Dalot is rubbish though.
Probably the key difference looking at those squads is that 8-9 out of 11 players are automatic starters (on paper) when available in every squad but City's, where you could change half the team and it'd be just as strong. Case in point:
For United: Maguire, Varane, Shaw, AWB, Pogba, Bruno, Sancho, Rashford, Ronaldo
For Liverpool: Allison, TAA, Van Dijk, Robertson, Fabinho, Henderson, Salah, Mane
For Chelsea: Mendy, Azpi, Rudiger, James, Kante, Jorginho, Havertz, Lukaku
For City: Only Ederson, Diaz, De Bruyne, and Foden are nailed on starters where you have a genuine drop in quality with their deputies.
Can't decide where this reflects well or poorly on City.
For United: Maguire, Varane, Shaw, AWB, Pogba, Bruno, Sancho, Rashford, Ronaldo
For Liverpool: Allison, TAA, Van Dijk, Robertson, Fabinho, Henderson, Salah, Mane
For Chelsea: Mendy, Azpi, Rudiger, James, Kante, Jorginho, Havertz, Lukaku
For City: Only Ederson, Diaz, De Bruyne, and Foden are nailed on starters where you have a genuine drop in quality with their deputies.
Can't decide where this reflects well or poorly on City.
Why are people making excuses for Liverpool? They got 99 points 1 year ago and have added Jota, Konate and Thiago since then. Most of their key players are also still in their prime.
Truth be told, United, Chelsea and Liverpool are fairly even. They have different weaknesses. The only thing that's for sure is that none should drop out of top 4 unless the likes of Spurs or Leicester have an amazing season.
Truth be told, United, Chelsea and Liverpool are fairly even. They have different weaknesses. The only thing that's for sure is that none should drop out of top 4 unless the likes of Spurs or Leicester have an amazing season.
Mount is a nailed-on starter for Chelsea.
Why would we struggle?
It’s 2 Premier League matches that they will miss
Brentford at Home and Crystal Palace Away
I think people seem to think they’ll be out for several matches, which is not true, Joe Cole keeps spouting “several games”…..it’s 2
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Is it really just two matches that the AFCON bound players will miss? That's good news for Chelsea.
Yes
2 premier league matches
I suppose the several games missed narrative comes from the other competitions during that period of AFCON that the players will miss, like cup competitions etc
but Premier League wise it’s just the 2 games
In terms of overall squad depth and strength, it's City > Chelsea > United > Liverpool
But the difference is minimal to almost negligible imo (except maybe City being a little ahead but lack of striker will likely even it out. For us, Midfield is a weakness but we got a massive shot in the arm with Ronaldo).
I feel like what it'll come down to is coaching/strategy and how fluent the teams play and with all due respect to Ole, we're at a disadvantage here. If we have to win the league, Ole and his team have to step up and ensure our plans are well executed. Midfield is a weakness but can be well managed by good coaching I feel.
But the difference is minimal to almost negligible imo (except maybe City being a little ahead but lack of striker will likely even it out. For us, Midfield is a weakness but we got a massive shot in the arm with Ronaldo).
I feel like what it'll come down to is coaching/strategy and how fluent the teams play and with all due respect to Ole, we're at a disadvantage here. If we have to win the league, Ole and his team have to step up and ensure our plans are well executed. Midfield is a weakness but can be well managed by good coaching I feel.
Liverpool’s lack of depth is likely to be their downfall, and is why I think they’ll finish 4th. (Unless they have another freak season like 18/19 and 19/20 where they never seemed to sustain any injuries). Perhaps that has already caught up on them after last season, but nonetheless I haven’t been convinced by them thus far. Harvey Elliott is a phenomenal talent though.
United have good depth, but not to the same level as City or Chelsea. In their case though, as opposed to Liverpool, I don’t think depth will be their sole deterrent; central midfield is a massive issue in the team’s lack of one. Of course the novelty of bringing Ronaldo back is gratifying, but I really don’t understand why you didn’t go for a CDM at least as a counterpart to that transfer, as that is what you needed most.
If you had managed to bring in a top draw CDM, be it Phillips or Rice or Neves or Bissouma or Ndidi, I would’ve put you down as strong title challengers. But I simply can’t see that with McFred in the middle.
City and Chelsea are hard to separate, the main factor in Chelsea’s favour is their acquisition of a striker. Sure, City played the majority of last season with a false 9, but we all know in this league if you don’t adapt your style of play on a regular basis then you will be found out. Now we don’t have that striker option to fall back on; Torres is excellent as a false 9 but he’s still not the most naturally instinctive forward compared to players in the other three teams, Jesus is much better on the wing or with another striker to partner him. The fact that we have the creative talent of Grealish, De Bruyne, Bernardo, Gündogan, Mahrez and Foden in the same team and no striker to get on the end of those balls makes me feel a little bit ill.
I must admit though, I do find Lukaku to be a very frustrating player to watch at times. He is the antithesis of what Werner brings to the table, and that opposition might cause Chelsea to struggle in finding an identity and form of attacking play. But on the contrary, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Tuchel employ a system with both of them in the starting XI. I imagine that could be very effective, the balance between the execution and aggression of Lukaku and elegance and energy of Werner could potentially be something to behold.
Chelsea are my favourites this year, unfortunately. But I’m still confident we can match them blow for blow.
United have good depth, but not to the same level as City or Chelsea. In their case though, as opposed to Liverpool, I don’t think depth will be their sole deterrent; central midfield is a massive issue in the team’s lack of one. Of course the novelty of bringing Ronaldo back is gratifying, but I really don’t understand why you didn’t go for a CDM at least as a counterpart to that transfer, as that is what you needed most.
If you had managed to bring in a top draw CDM, be it Phillips or Rice or Neves or Bissouma or Ndidi, I would’ve put you down as strong title challengers. But I simply can’t see that with McFred in the middle.
City and Chelsea are hard to separate, the main factor in Chelsea’s favour is their acquisition of a striker. Sure, City played the majority of last season with a false 9, but we all know in this league if you don’t adapt your style of play on a regular basis then you will be found out. Now we don’t have that striker option to fall back on; Torres is excellent as a false 9 but he’s still not the most naturally instinctive forward compared to players in the other three teams, Jesus is much better on the wing or with another striker to partner him. The fact that we have the creative talent of Grealish, De Bruyne, Bernardo, Gündogan, Mahrez and Foden in the same team and no striker to get on the end of those balls makes me feel a little bit ill.
I must admit though, I do find Lukaku to be a very frustrating player to watch at times. He is the antithesis of what Werner brings to the table, and that opposition might cause Chelsea to struggle in finding an identity and form of attacking play. But on the contrary, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Tuchel employ a system with both of them in the starting XI. I imagine that could be very effective, the balance between the execution and aggression of Lukaku and elegance and energy of Werner could potentially be something to behold.
Chelsea are my favourites this year, unfortunately. But I’m still confident we can match them blow for blow.
What about other cups though? Not to mention if they’ll have to quarantine, additional chance of injury etc.Why would we struggle?
It’s 2 Premier League matches that they will miss
Brentford at Home and Crystal Palace Away
I think people seem to think they’ll be out for several matches, which is not true, Joe Cole keeps spouting “several games”…..it’s 2
For me Liverpool have as good a first XI as anyone but you haven’t spent enough on the depth side.
Then I would say it's still fair to say several. It's not like cup games don't count as games missed.
Additional chance of injury could be anytime of the season, it’s not really an additional chance
Quarantine isn’t an issue
and although other cup competitions are important imo, we all know they aren’t top priority
Agree on your last statement though on depth, but at the same time it’s not as weak as people make out
We fielded a fantastic team against Chelsea, our bench was
Jota
Thiago
Gomez
Keita
Ox
Tsimikas
Konaté
Minaino
Hardly a bad bench, but yes, injuries to the starting XI would stretch this for sure
Still got Milner to throw into the mix and also
Neco Williams
Curtis Jones
Nathaniel Philips
who have all proved themselves to be capable of stepping up quite well when needed and have more experience from last season’s appearances due too injuries
so Liverpool’s depth is made out to be worse than it is imo
Not going to say I’m delighted we didn’t add depth though, I’m course I’m not, especially seeing others strengthen, but we’ve still got a strong strong base to work with
It is when talking about premier league games missed
I guess I always look at internationals for United players as no win situation re injuries. If they’re injured playing for United it’s understandable but nothing worse than a player coming back injured and then missing PL games. Fair enough if you feel it’s no different from any other games.
Its on the attacking side where I think depth is the issue for you, I like Jota but after him the drop off is big in my opinion.
Re missing games I’m trying to work out if it would impact CL games but I think knock outs start in Feb & have seen quite a few Pool fans saying Klopp seems a bit less bothered about the domestic cups (not sure if true but if so I guess you’d have to back yourselves to beat Brentford/Palace).
BIB 100%
that’s been the most disappointing bit about this window for me, not getting that extra player in attack for sure, like you say after Jota, the drop off is relatively equivalent to a cliff edge, Minamino has talent but hasn’t many apps under his belt for us and perhaps lacks confidence, certainly can’t rely on him after Jota.