F1 2021 Season

Jippy said:
The tone of that tweet is very in keeping with this thread. They can't possibly just not have seen or been mistaken, THEY'RE LYING TO YOUR FACE!
Click to expand...
Libel and slander!

To be fair (or rather: pessimistic), this is the tone of a lot of discussion on the forum. And I suppose that's typical of social media (which I otherwise don't follow). There's not much nuance or mutual understanding in these discussions.
 
Adam-Utd said:
I think red bull are making it worse for Verstappen too. They keep feeding his ego and making him seem never in the wrong. They don’t come out and say it’s a mistake and they constantly make him think the other person is in the wrong.

Just look at his most recent post, even after being given a penalty for the incident he still says he’s not given space :lol:

the stupid thing is he literally never gives anybody space when fighting, so ironic.
Click to expand...
It is. They've been hyping him up and proclaiming he's a future world champion and the one who'll break all the age record for being the youngest winner/pole winner/ champion and just encouraging him to be as reckless as possible.

That and Red Bull are obnoxious as feck.
 
hobbers said:
From Max's perspective it absolutely is a very low speed crash.

His helmet is bolted into a HANS, he cannot turn and see what's going on at the rear of his car. It's completely impossible for him to know how close Lewis came to having a tyre squash him.
Click to expand...
That's not the point is it, low speed in F1 is still quicker than the speed limit on the motorways. He caused an accident that could have cost someone their life.

The fact you've got a former F1 champion question whether he might have done it on purpose (be it "payback" or to stop someone scoring points), plus getting a grid penalty from the FIA says to me Max was completely in the wrong.
 
We need an rvn said:
That's not the point is it, low speed in F1 is still quicker than the speed limit on the motorways. He caused an accident that could have cost someone their life.

The fact you've got a former F1 champion question whether he might have done it on purpose (be it "payback" or to stop someone scoring points), plus getting a grid penalty from the FIA says to me Max was completely in the wrong.
Click to expand...

Any objective person would look at how his car bounced up off a sausage curb and figure out pretty easily that it obviously wasn't on purpose, and any suggestion it was says a lot more about the person suggesting it frankly. You can argue about risk vs reward and giving space and bailing out, but the move was a perfectly valid thing to try, which was also the universal opinion of the team principles asked about it including Toto.

The point is that the crash would not have felt like it endangered Lewis' life from Max's perspective, regardless of him bouncing up onto another car. He contributed (along with Lewis) to causing an accident much like Lewis contributed to putting Max's life in far more danger at Silverstone. And I'm not sure why the need for histrionics about 'causing accidents that endanger life'? So what? It's F1. Every tiny error and every risky manoeuvre by every driver falls into that bracket.
 
Gringo said:
Ricciardo had it under control. Can't see how Max would have got past him even with a good stop. Lando wouldn't have finished 2nd though most likely.
Click to expand...

Not so sure about that because Lando was just holding station and had previously said that Riccardo was too slow.
Anyway, fantastic result for McLaren.
 
ZIDANE said:
For those that think Max is a bit aggressive and not seeing the bigger picture (pulling out of that move) you surely have to appreciate he’s only 23 going for his first title against one of the best drivers and teams of the modern generation. Hamilton has pulled out of moves but that’s his experience and probably why he’s hanging on in the championship.
Click to expand...

Except Max and Red Bull raised hell about Lewis not backing out in Silverstone. Max knows he should've backed out at the first corner in Monza, it's incredibly tight, you have to go over the curbs unless you've won the corner beforehand.

It's not so funny to hear Horner's seething reaction at Silverstone about Max getting killed and Lewis should've backed out compared to Monza where it's now just a chirpy relaxed two drivers going for a championship and Lewis needed to leave space, and guess what, Lewis could've been killed without the Halo device and even with it in at slightly different angles or heights can have compression of the neck and spine which could put him in a wheel chair for life.
 
Now the dust has settled and the FIA have pronounced against Max, I am still left with an uncomfortable feeling about his general behaviour toward his rival and other drivers.
Yes he may have thought that Lewis was not badly injured.
And thought that because Lewis was trying to reverse his car from under the RB that it was ok to just walk away.
But he could not have known that Lewis was trying to reverse to get the RB off his head.

How much better would it have been for him to just stop and check that everything was ok.
It is in these type of situations that a persons true character comes out.
 
Buster15 said:
Now the dust has settled and the FIA have pronounced against Max, I am still left with an uncomfortable feeling about his general behaviour toward his rival and other drivers.
Yes he may have thought that Lewis was not badly injured.
And thought that because Lewis was trying to reverse his car from under the RB that it was ok to just walk away.
But he could not have known that Lewis was trying to reverse to get the RB off his head.

How much better would it have been for him to just stop and check that everything was ok.
It is in these type of situations that a persons true character comes out.
Click to expand...
He walked away in anger and true sulk without any regard for his opponent I thought, wasn’t nice to see even if people are providing stills of him glancing over at Lewis, it seemed to me he walked away without a care, amplified by his radio message straight after the incident.

I say that without being a massive fan of either driver.
 
hobbers said:
Any objective person would look at how his car bounced up off a sausage curb and figure out pretty easily that it obviously wasn't on purpose, and any suggestion it was says a lot more about the person suggesting it frankly. You can argue about risk vs reward and giving space and bailing out, but the move was a perfectly valid thing to try, which was also the universal opinion of the team principles asked about it including Toto.

The point is that the crash would not have felt like it endangered Lewis' life from Max's perspective, regardless of him bouncing up onto another car. He contributed (along with Lewis) to causing an accident much like Lewis contributed to putting Max's life in far more danger at Silverstone. And I'm not sure why the need for histrionics about 'causing accidents that endanger life'? So what? It's F1. Every tiny error and every risky manoeuvre by every driver falls into that bracket.
Click to expand...
That's a ridiculous argument though. His car wheel hit Lewis on the head regardless of whether it felt dangerous to Max or not. That's like saying if I run over an old woman at 70mph I felt perfectly safe so it's fine.

Horner, Red Bull's principal, doesn't have any principles btw.
 
Honestly Wolff and Hamilton are just as bad as Horner and Max. Wolff saying the crash was a "tactical foul" thus deliberate is ridiculous. Disgusting from Mercedes.
 
Easy in hindsight but Max should have just cut the chicane and got on the slipstream
 
Gringo said:
Easy in hindsight but Max should have just cut the chicane and got on the slipstream
Click to expand...

both could have done something to avoid the contact. Either punish both or none.

This biggest car crash is right here.
 
Didn't want to post yesterday to let things cool down.

So now cool and calm:
Another Crashstappen divebomb masterclass. Kinda annoying how everyone is looking past it because they want someone else to win for once. I really wish there was a Nelson Pique around for this kid.
 
Leclerc was the first to really push back against Max's aggression and I think in fairness he's adapted his driving because of it. Should those two end up in future world championship battles they will collide a lot. Hamilton has met the aggression with his own, something he really did remove from his driving style but if that's the game you have to meet fire with fire.
 
Abizzz said:
Didn't want to post yesterday to let things cool down.

So now cool and calm:
Another Crashstappen divebomb masterclass. Kinda annoying how everyone is looking past it because they want someone else to win for once. I really wish there was a Nelson Pique around for this kid.
Click to expand...

It's pointless to even discuss this guy anymore, i've never seen such blind ignorance and obvious stupidity with some of the posts i see online defending him, it's definitely the new generation of fans i see it from most and mirrors what you see with football twitter at times.

Verstappen knew exactly what he was doing yesterday and knew taking Lewis out would keep him at the front of the championship, dirty tactics and lucky to get away with a 3 place grid pen as punishment, i really wish Max was a likeable guy because he is a brilliant driver for the majority but if he doesn't get his way all hell breaks loose.
 
How many times did lewis and vettel collide when seb was at ferrari? Just saying....
 
Leg-End said:
Leclerc was the first to really push back against Max's aggression and I think in fairness he's adapted his driving because of it. Should those two end up in future world championship battles they will collide a lot. Hamilton has met the aggression with his own, something he really did remove from his driving style but if that's the game you have to meet fire with fire.
Click to expand...
Lando, leclerc and others will be just as aggressive with max when they have cars to match the RB. Max is making a rod for his own back. His sense of entitlement needs to be calmed down by RB, but it won't.
 
dinostar77 said:
Lando, leclerc and others will be just as aggressive with max when they have cars to match the RB. Max is making a rod for his own back. His sense of entitlement needs to be calmed down by RB, but it won't.
Click to expand...

Well that's it, he's gained the reputation and the blue print to beat him on level ground is to just match his aggression.

He's genuinely so quick that he doesn't even need to be aggressive like he is, occasionally conceding is an option, win it back later or live to fight another day. I reckon they will come together again this season, major or minor, the championship may just come down to who comes out better off in these collisions and strangely enough I don't think Max even needs that battle but he's started the game again.
 
dinostar77 said:
Lando, leclerc and others will be just as aggressive with max when they have cars to match the RB. Max is making a rod for his own back. His sense of entitlement needs to be calmed down by RB, but it won't.
Click to expand...
Yesterday was the first day I really though Verstappen is not going to live up to his potential. Partly, this is related to RB management, Silverstone put a marker down on how aggressive driving is treated and yesterday Verstappen suffered. I personally thought it was a racing incident and would rather it was treated as such, even though Hamilton was penalized at Silverstone because I'd rather see strong competitive racing get back to normal. But RB created this monster with the over the top actions.

Anyway, when I finally watched the race, I can see Verstappen was going to crash out. I will give him the benefit of the doubt and say he didn't choose Hamilton to take out. But after that pit stop, the red mist descended, and a crash seemed inevitable. For all his potential, Verstappen mat be the one preventing him being a multiple WDC, not Hamilton, Leclerc etc. It's very possible he wins this year, but I have serious doubt now that he will. For all the folks whining about Hamilton on the radio, that was some teenage tantrum Verstappen threw out there. He needs stronger leadership and a firm hand right now and he isn't getting it.
 
dinostar77 said:
How many times did lewis and vettel collide when seb was at ferrari? Just saying....
Click to expand...

Several times. Difference was I think pretty much every time ended up in Seb spinning out and no consequence to Lewis. Seb was an absolute master at being a rag doll in wheel to wheel incidents at Ferrari.

Imagine how frothing people would be if Max did to Lewis what Seb did to him in Baku.
 
No11 said:
both could have done something to avoid the contact. Either punish both or none.

This biggest car crash is right here.
Click to expand...

I don’t think this is right unfortunately. As I’ve said a few times in this thread, my personal view is it’s a racing incident with no punishment. But this is near enough identical to what happened In Silverstone - which I also thought was a racing incident but the stewards decided to penalise Lewis. Once they set that precedent it was correct to penalise Max here.
 
NotworkSte said:
Yesterday was the first day I really though Verstappen is not going to live up to his potential. Partly, this is related to RB management, Silverstone put a marker down on how aggressive driving is treated and yesterday Verstappen suffered. I personally thought it was a racing incident and would rather it was treated as such, even though Hamilton was penalized at Silverstone because I'd rather see strong competitive racing get back to normal. But RB created this monster with the over the top actions.

Anyway, when I finally watched the race, I can see Verstappen was going to crash out. I will give him the benefit of the doubt and say he didn't choose Hamilton to take out. But after that pit stop, the red mist descended, and a crash seemed inevitable. For all his potential, Verstappen mat be the one preventing him being a multiple WDC, not Hamilton, Leclerc etc. It's very possible he wins this year, but I have serious doubt now that he will. For all the folks whining about Hamilton on the radio, that was some teenage tantrum Verstappen threw out there. He needs stronger leadership and a firm hand right now and he isn't getting it.
Click to expand...

I think though it is important to remember Max is relatively young. Hamilton was also quite rash as a young driver although he had much better management by McLaren. I do wonder if how RB enable him will stall his development in the longe run, but I do also expect that in time Max will naturally himself realise that that winning each battle in the race is not what wins a world championship.
 
Max is young and he will mature but he doesn't get a free pass on age or experience for me, he's competed in 133 races at the top level since 2015.
 
Leg-End said:
Max is young and he will mature but he doesn't get a free pass on age or experience for me, he's competed in 133 races at the top level since 2015.
Click to expand...

I don’t think he deserves a free pass. I think the conversation about his development as a driver and how we think it’ll trend, VS whether he should continue to be punished as he makes mistakes as he learns (which he should) are two different things. I don’t think there’s any suggestion he should be treated differently because he is younger.
 
i heard max doesn’t even thank the bus driver when he gets off at his stop.
 
rpitroda said:
I think though it is important to remember Max is relatively young. Hamilton was also quite rash as a young driver although he had much better management by McLaren. I do wonder if how RB enable him will stall his development in the longe run, but I do also expect that in time Max will naturally himself realise that that winning each battle in the race is not what wins a world championship.
Click to expand...

At what point does he pass the "he still young" mark. He is 23. Russel and Leclerc are 23, Norris is 21. I actually believe (probably unpopular opinion) Verstappen was done a disservice by putting him into the F1 seat at such a young age. Fast enough yes very much so, mature enough? Depends on the team I guess who would mentor rather than pander. I guess though Schumacher and Senna were older when they won their first WDC, Hamilton was about same age, Vettel was about same age. Maybe in terms of experience, and not time in F1, he is approaching the point were he should be expected to start to win now?

Your last statement I agree, he will realize what it takes to win a WDC, but after 130+ races though he needs to sort his head out quick or he might be a 1 or 2 time winner rather than 5 or 6.
 
Vettel won his first WDC at RB around 23 I think. I actually can't remember too much as I stopped watching F1 for a year or so as I was relocating to the US, but I remember not liking him too much at the time at first for some reason. Does anyone remember how he was? Young and aggressive? And how did Horner manage him?
 
Jaxa said:
It's pointless to even discuss this guy anymore, i've never seen such blind ignorance and obvious stupidity with some of the posts i see online defending him, it's definitely the new generation of fans i see it from most and mirrors what you see with football twitter at times.

Verstappen knew exactly what he was doing yesterday and knew taking Lewis out would keep him at the front of the championship, dirty tactics and lucky to get away with a 3 place grid pen as punishment, i really wish Max was a likeable guy because he is a brilliant driver for the majority but if he doesn't get his way all hell breaks loose.
Click to expand...
Honestly it's posts like this without any nuance or common sense to them that make it pointless to discuss anything. I get that there's mainly English people on here so Hamilton will get a lot of support and that's fine but some of these posts are so extreme it looks more like blind hatred
 
Could there still be a penalty for Verstappen?
 
F-Red said:
He's got a penalty, do you mean the engine penalty that he'll probably take as well in Sochi?
Click to expand...

i think he means more along the lines of a criminal charge for attempted murder. though verstappen might claim it was a crime of passion as it happened in italy.
 
ArjenIsM3 said:
Honestly it's posts like this without any nuance or common sense to them that make it pointless to discuss anything. I get that there's mainly English people on here so Hamilton will get a lot of support and that's fine but some of these posts are so extreme it looks more like blind hatred
Click to expand...

"Blind Hatred" yet i said "i really wish Max was a likeable guy because he is a brilliant driver for the majority but if he doesn't get his way all hell breaks loose."

Also I am not English so if that's your argument then that's out the window too, i see you are from the Netherlands so i will just go with it's pointless to argue with you also as you'll just defend Max regardless

Bye.
 
ArjenIsM3 said:
Honestly Wolff and Hamilton are just as bad as Horner and Max. Wolff saying the crash was a "tactical foul" thus deliberate is ridiculous. Disgusting from Mercedes.
Click to expand...
Let's face it, Max lost his head after the poor pit stop and saw red. Decided either he would bully his way through or cause a collision. Standard behaviour for Max.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.