That’s a weird “issue” to bring up. Obviously obesity and public health in general is something we should always be looking to improve. Equally obviously, it will never be 100% ‘fixed’. No matter how much time and money is invested. So why should it have any relevance to the roll out of this vaccine?
The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
That’s a weird “issue” to bring up. Obviously obesity and public health in general is something we should always be looking to improve. Equally obviously, it will never be 100% ‘fixed’. No matter how much time and money is invested. So why should it have any relevance to the roll out of this vaccine?
It doesn't, per se, I'd just like to see a bit more honesty from those in power, especially whilst we're trying to focus people's minds on on heath issues.
We saw it mentioned, briefly, when Boris was ill and then largely nothing since. There seems a reluctance to make the point that if you are overweight and unfit, you are likely to suffer more seriously if you get covid.
It’s easy enough to see why they don’t want to go down that path. Any implication that losing weight/getting fitter reduces your covid risk could fuel the “I’m thin and healthy, so not in any danger” misinformation doing the rounds.
i mean I just put forward an example of where they introduced vaccine passes and then took them away in Ireland once rates went down so there’s that
also they’ve been used before, e.g. yellow card, mandatory childhood jabs for schools without us turning into dystopian totalitarian states
Maybe. But since this is about saving lives then surely it's something which should be made clear to people.
We've had 18 months plus of covid; plenty of time for people to make a materiel difference to their health. Perhaps even enough of a difference to save them from complications, or worse.
We're living in strange times I suppose, and many will see things that aren't there.
I remain uncomfortable with the idea of discrimination on any grounds, and still take the view that if you don't want to be jabbed, that's your right - even if I can't understand why you wouldn't just have it, despite the slightly concerning adverse reaction I had.
Do you really think there are many people out there who are unaware that getting slimmer/healthier would improve their overall health? Either with regard to covid or in general? Surely that’s all common knowledge?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58623062
https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-r...nd-biontech-announce-positive-topline-results
Interesting news regarding Pfizer saying have data for five to 11 year olds and are going to FDA for approval - and submitting data to EMA too. Should be interesting to see the paper.
Also future data for ages 2 to 5 years; and ages 6 months to 2 years due to come later too.
https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-r...nd-biontech-announce-positive-topline-results
Interesting news regarding Pfizer saying have data for five to 11 year olds and are going to FDA for approval - and submitting data to EMA too. Should be interesting to see the paper.
Also future data for ages 2 to 5 years; and ages 6 months to 2 years due to come later too.
Got my 2nd jab last weekend. Feels great
I think a lot of people are poorly educated when it comes to food choice and exercise and don't actually understand why they're overweight. I have seen this in action regularly amongst work colleagues and family trying to lose weight, with otherwise intelligent people either unable (or perhaps unwilling) to grasp basic concepts. I also think that people don't really understand the actual implications in terms of increased risk of overall health issues, often until they've had a proper health scare. Both of things applied to me at one point.
I think to assume everyone fully understands it, takes the view that people are essentially choosing to be overweight, which I don't think is the case for the most part.
For me, this is a golden opportunity, whilst general health is at the forefront of people's minds to push the point. If being double jabbed vastly reduces your risk of serious complications, I would guess that of the small number of people who do have serious complications, the obesity risk factor would still play a part.
Just heard on the news that Ireland has given out about 7m vaccines and 87% of everyone over 12 have been fully vaccinated here. That's fantastic news.
Hopefully things don't go to shit before Oct 22 and we can drop vast majority of the restrictions.
Hopefully things don't go to shit before Oct 22 and we can drop vast majority of the restrictions.
Wife had her 3rd jab today.
I guess at least the hit-by-a-truck immune response to the second dose of Moderna was worth it?
It's interesting to see there is a slight difference in effectiveness between the two. It also mentions that there's a potential to use half the current dose to produce similar results, which would double doses available. If the efficacy bears out, the 3 billion doses they expect to produce next year could be 6 billion.
Also, the FDA approved Pfizer boosters for 65+ and high risk individuals (both health issues and exposure for health care workers) today, rather than for everyone.
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About the tyranny/govt control/genie out of the bottle arguments:
A common line of argument here is to compare it with the US govt response to 9/11 (the domestic side of it) - which was the Patriot Act, blanket warrantless surveillance, basically suspending the 4th amendment, censorship of anti-war viewpoints in the media, etc.
For me the difference is that the govt had an obvious interest in continuing all those things, they increased its power and control, and they meant a lot of money to newly developing surveillance and tech companies. For vaccines, it does mean money to (some) pharma companies, but I don't really see how they increase govt control in a way similar to being able to listen to every phone call or read every email. So I'm not sure why govts would persist with these measures past their usefulness.
A common line of argument here is to compare it with the US govt response to 9/11 (the domestic side of it) - which was the Patriot Act, blanket warrantless surveillance, basically suspending the 4th amendment, censorship of anti-war viewpoints in the media, etc.
For me the difference is that the govt had an obvious interest in continuing all those things, they increased its power and control, and they meant a lot of money to newly developing surveillance and tech companies. For vaccines, it does mean money to (some) pharma companies, but I don't really see how they increase govt control in a way similar to being able to listen to every phone call or read every email. So I'm not sure why govts would persist with these measures past their usefulness.
I see the appeal of vaccine passports. I went to my first match in 18 months at OT last night. I'd have preferred it if I was in a "fully vaccinated and recently LFT'd" stand. Though logistically I'm not sure the security/turnstile operation can handle it (if they're expected to actually check validity, rather than just look at a green tick on a screen)
Will they push a country like the UK from 90% to 99% (or even 95%) of adults vaccinated? I don't see it. I worry when I look at charts like this:
Or when I read that it's mostly men in the worst paid jobs living in poor areas, rejecting it. Public health measures have to look and feel fair, otherwise the risk is that we leave people more suspicious about healthcare, and more disconnected from their neighbours.
If the issue is that, "I don't care who I infect and I I think the hospital will save me if I get really sick," then sure, I don't care about them either.
If the issue is more profound, as it certainly must be for older black Britons not to get jabbed - then it needs to be addressed. If it's about "but I've already been infected," as I suspect it is for a lot of younger groups, particularly those who worked through the pandemic, then they need tailored advice - not the blanket "2 jabs or nothing" approach, if only to reassure them that they're being heard.
Vaccine passports are a very blunt tool for dealing with a hesitant or resistant last few percent. I suspect they're of a lot of value, in restarting a stalled vaccine campaign where indifference or procrastination is driving the hesitation.
Will they push a country like the UK from 90% to 99% (or even 95%) of adults vaccinated? I don't see it. I worry when I look at charts like this:
Or when I read that it's mostly men in the worst paid jobs living in poor areas, rejecting it. Public health measures have to look and feel fair, otherwise the risk is that we leave people more suspicious about healthcare, and more disconnected from their neighbours.
If the issue is that, "I don't care who I infect and I I think the hospital will save me if I get really sick," then sure, I don't care about them either.
If the issue is more profound, as it certainly must be for older black Britons not to get jabbed - then it needs to be addressed. If it's about "but I've already been infected," as I suspect it is for a lot of younger groups, particularly those who worked through the pandemic, then they need tailored advice - not the blanket "2 jabs or nothing" approach, if only to reassure them that they're being heard.
Vaccine passports are a very blunt tool for dealing with a hesitant or resistant last few percent. I suspect they're of a lot of value, in restarting a stalled vaccine campaign where indifference or procrastination is driving the hesitation.
Thread relevant to recent discussions on here re differing Uk vs Ireland approach to vaccinating secondary school kids.
To be fair, the JCVI would have expected this but deemed the risk of infection vs risk of vaccination for the kids to be similar and extremely low. They ignored social consequences for kids (time out of school) and onward transmission though because that wasn’t part of their brief. Seems strange there couldn’t have been more joined up thinking between them and CMOs at the time.
WHO don't validate manufacturing processes and individual factories, unlike the major regulators - like the CDC, EMA, MHRA. So the two types of approval are different. If it means that Novavax can launch in India or start supplying Covax it will be a big deal globally though.
Personally I'm still in limbo, in terms of getting a MHRA/EMA approved vaccine.
The trial teams are hoping that JCVI will break the deadlock by saying that trialists can get (two doses of) a deployed vaccine. However, given that JCVI normally operate on clinical need rather than my travel needs I'm not actually holding my breath on that one!
Similar to my experience. I had my first Pfizer dose and experienced fluttering in my chest which was pretty concerning. Went to a GP who said just to monitor it but that I should be fine because the heart inflammation is 'very rare'. But I know others with similar issues and the stuff online makes me think it is a lot more common.
I also seem to have an ongoing issue where my heart rate spikes with minimal activity. Five minutes on the treadmill and I am absolutely stuffed and feel like I have a weight on my chest. I have my 2nd dose in a few days but am very anxious about it.
Heart palpitations are also pretty much symptom number 1 of anxiety. If you worry about getting them, you can almost guarantee you will get them.
Speaking from experience you should get a series of cardiac tests done, and ask about getting your arteries checked to make sure none are blocked.
I say this as someone who would be considered a “conservative” by Western standards.
This “personal freedom” stuff is nonsense.
Your freedom ends when you pose harm to somebody else.
It’s always been the golden rule of freedom. Do what you like as long as you don’t hurt others.
In the context of a contagious virus that mutates, the freedom excuse just seems to be used as a catchphrase by people who get their news from Instagram. Social media is a disease.
This “personal freedom” stuff is nonsense.
Your freedom ends when you pose harm to somebody else.
It’s always been the golden rule of freedom. Do what you like as long as you don’t hurt others.
In the context of a contagious virus that mutates, the freedom excuse just seems to be used as a catchphrase by people who get their news from Instagram. Social media is a disease.
Had my booster jab today, although pretty sure my vaccine from January is still working as 2 of my sons currently have covid and I haven't caught it.
Hope your sons get well soon
It’s interesting the way anecdotes like this don’t get noticed as much as hearing from people who were vaccinated and caught covid. Ever since we heard that vaccines are less than 100% effective it’s felt as though they don’t give much protection at all, other than preventing hospitalisation/death. Whereas the reality is they give a hell of a lot of protection against catching covid too.
Thank you man. My eldest had it first and had the cough but that's all really. He is allowed out of isolation tomorrow. My middle son had a headache on Saturday, tested positive and has been pretty asymptomatic since. Lucky they are both young and healthy and should now have antibodies for winter!
Yes mate, thought exactly the same. When my son caught it, I assumed me and my wife were guaranteed to get it, but hoped the vaccines would limit effects. Middle son is not vacced yet and caught it so its clearly spread around the house, but the vaccines must be doing a job.
Interesting article that shows how good the vaccines are in preventing death and severe disease. Only 11% of deaths were fully vaccinated and of that 11% more than 95% are in the 70-100 age groups, so are likely to have poorer immune response to the vaccine. So in the Under 70's only 0.5% of deaths are fully vaccinated. Fully vaccinated people only accounted for 3% of hospitalisations.
https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2021...accinated-people-have-died-of-covid/100497770
Colour me surprised.
People are killed by knives so I should be able to own a fully automatic AK47.
People are as terrible with risk as they are with forming logical arguments. They also forget that because one risk is comparable with another that this doesn't mean you can ignore the new risk. Risk in said examples are almost always independent of each other and therefore additive and not an alternative. They then tend to back it up by ignoring that some risks are alternatives e.g the risk of a vaccine side effect vs the effect of getting the disease itself.
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I was sent (2 weeks after) for a 24hr tape to monitor my hear rate and by that point the fluttering (very good description of what I was feeling also) had mostly gone. It's now gone completely coming up to 4 weeks since my jab and hasn't been noticeable since last week. Hopefully that provides some comfort for you.
I'm sure it was nothing to be concerned about but when I went for my ECG the nurse was very clear that if I had any significant pain I needed to come back or call an ambulance as it's not worth the risk of it being something serious. It was hard to square that with the fact that the GP seemed pretty uninterested on providing an explanation!
Interesting/robust data which can be used as rebuttal to the “vaccines don’t stop transmission” mentalism.
The Joys of Being a Vaccine Trialist - Part 94...
A recap then. I had two doses of Novavax in November of 2020. Unfortunately, though the efficacy and safety data (UK, US, Mexico trials) has been good/great - Novavax have struggled with upscaling manufacturing.
Net effect: no approval from any of the regulators.
Result for the world: about a billion fewer doses of vaccine this year.
Result for me personally = trialists can't travel to most European countries, which has really screwed up "the grand reopening" for me as it's stopping me visiting family and friends, and is messing up my work as well.
Today I had my fifth COVID vaccine jab. Jabs 1/2 - Novavax - back in November. Jab 3/4 - placebo - done as a "crossover" during April this year. Jab 5 - Pfizer.
To get a jab I needed a letter from the trial saying I could, a letter from my GP saying I could and a half hour debate with a sympathetic doctor at a vaccine walk-in centre. "Computer says no," is basically the situation unless you can come up with a suitable blame-sharing document set. The walk-in centre doctor came up with a solution - "we can give you a booster - that's Pfizer - then maybe, by the time you're due your second dose, we can have a statement from the JCVI saying it's alright."
Apparently, because the national guidance doesn't exist, the outcome varies from doctor to doctor, vaccine centre to centre. It also depends on the trialists willingness to lie to the walk-in centres, though with computerised records the window for lying has now gone for most trialists.
I don't regret joining the trial. I actually felt as if I was doing something useful. I do regret staying on it after the UK safety/efficacy phase was complete - I'd already done my bit for science then
If I'd just got rejabbed with AZ or Pfizer in the summer (before the trial vaccine records were uploaded to the NHS app) I wouldn't feel like I'd needlessly spoiled 6 months of my business and family life.
Trivial stuff compared to the global impact of covid. That doesn't stop me feeling childishly pissed off about it though - especially as it's really only an admin issue.
A recap then. I had two doses of Novavax in November of 2020. Unfortunately, though the efficacy and safety data (UK, US, Mexico trials) has been good/great - Novavax have struggled with upscaling manufacturing.
Net effect: no approval from any of the regulators.
Result for the world: about a billion fewer doses of vaccine this year.
Result for me personally = trialists can't travel to most European countries, which has really screwed up "the grand reopening" for me as it's stopping me visiting family and friends, and is messing up my work as well.
Today I had my fifth COVID vaccine jab. Jabs 1/2 - Novavax - back in November. Jab 3/4 - placebo - done as a "crossover" during April this year. Jab 5 - Pfizer.
To get a jab I needed a letter from the trial saying I could, a letter from my GP saying I could and a half hour debate with a sympathetic doctor at a vaccine walk-in centre. "Computer says no," is basically the situation unless you can come up with a suitable blame-sharing document set. The walk-in centre doctor came up with a solution - "we can give you a booster - that's Pfizer - then maybe, by the time you're due your second dose, we can have a statement from the JCVI saying it's alright."
Apparently, because the national guidance doesn't exist, the outcome varies from doctor to doctor, vaccine centre to centre. It also depends on the trialists willingness to lie to the walk-in centres, though with computerised records the window for lying has now gone for most trialists.
I don't regret joining the trial. I actually felt as if I was doing something useful. I do regret staying on it after the UK safety/efficacy phase was complete - I'd already done my bit for science then
If I'd just got rejabbed with AZ or Pfizer in the summer (before the trial vaccine records were uploaded to the NHS app) I wouldn't feel like I'd needlessly spoiled 6 months of my business and family life.Trivial stuff compared to the global impact of covid. That doesn't stop me feeling childishly pissed off about it though - especially as it's really only an admin issue.
Someone I know has had an allergic reaction to the Pfizer jab. That’s not that alarming - although scary, it’s unfortunately bound to happen to a small percentage. She’s been having fits up to 10 times a day.
What is alarming is that the doctors and nurses in the nhs have refused to take her seriously. They didn’t even believe it was happening until one happened during a hospital visit. Even since then one nurse told her she can stop now as she won’t be receiving any drugs - in the middle of a fit.
This makes a lot of sense. Explains why a number of people can be in contact with someone who has it and only one catch it. This has happened twice with me now.
To get a jab I needed a letter from the trial saying I could, a letter from my GP saying I could and a half hour debate with a sympathetic doctor at a vaccine walk-in centre. "Computer says no," is basically the situation unless you can come up with a suitable blame-sharing document set. The walk-in centre doctor came up with a solution - "we can give you a booster - that's Pfizer - then maybe, by the time you're due your second dose, we can have a statement from the JCVI saying it's alright."
Apparently, because the national guidance doesn't exist, the outcome varies from doctor to doctor, vaccine centre to centre. It also depends on the trialists willingness to lie to the walk-in centres, though with computerised records the window for lying has now gone for most trialists.
I don't regret joining the trial. I actually felt as if I was doing something useful. I do regret staying on it after the UK safety/efficacy phase was complete - I'd already done my bit for science then
Trivial stuff compared to the global impact of covid. That doesn't stop me feeling childishly pissed off about it though - especially as it's really only an admin issue.
This is fecking scandalous. Public Health England should hang their heads in shame.
Main issue around doctor's not being able to help out is issues around indemnity and licensing. We are very protocol driven.
PHE needs to grow some balls honestly or we'll lose any hope of people signing up for clinical research.
That's exactly it. I understand why the individual doctors (and even the local trial teams) can't take action alone. I feel bad about nagging the trial team, my GP and the vaccine centre doctor really - it's not their fault. That's why it needs the national leadership to step in.
In some areas the trialists can't even get boosters, despite being 10 months past their second dose. That branch of the limbo group includes some health workers, and over 70s. My issue is mostly about my travel restrictions, theirs is also very directly about their health.
I still get notifications from NIHR (NHS research) telling me how great the trials are and inviting me to join another one. Not a chance
