Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch

[Hansi Fick]

Liverpool didn't buy young players like Arsenal, they signed players who were about to enter their peak years.

Also I don't see any long term planning, I said the same for us too. Without short term results there is no long term plan.

Exactly. That's the crucial point here.

Now, you can define what exactly you consider realistic short term results, but the notion that somehow it's going to get better in the long term when the person in charge doesn't show good work in the present is completely non-sensical.

It's not like Arteta can only field 7 players in games right now, because he's still missing 4 and has to buy them in future windows. He's perfectly in the position to show how he can coach, set up and motivate a team, here and now, no need to point to the future. Having the team play like shit for a good 50% of games just isn't good enough for any kind of temporality. A mediocre manager won't become excellent just because you keep him around for more years.

 

[GoonerBear]

Liverpool didn't buy young players like Arsenal, they signed players who were about to enter their peak years.

Also I don't see any long term planning, I said the same for us too. Without short term results there is no long term plan.

Ramsdale 23, White 23, Odegaard 22, Tomiyasu 22 are the main first team signings & aren't exactly kids, & they all have a decent amount of experience & first team minutes for their age as well.

Lokonga & Tavares are younger but playing a more squad role.

Agreed about the results, so let's judge him on if the team improves position this season or not. I've consistently time & time again said that as well.

Liverpool also struck gold by signing one of the best forward in the world for a pittance. And have one of the best coaches in the world who have gone through a similar process before.

So many things can go wrong with these ‘project youth’. Half of those players may turn out not good enough, one of two really good one might get itchy feet, someone may get a big injury or many niggling ones that set him back a few years, the coach may get fired and new coach doesn’t fancy what he sees, then some important positions may see players winding down or the replacement not up to filling the void. Then what?

Looking at the Arsenal team at the moment, Lacszette wants out, and Aubameyang even if he doesn’t want the same have been rotten for a good 14 months or so. What happens if he doesn’t regain his form, who is a good striker at a good age you can buy to guarantee the goals while the rest of the team matures? Is Kroenke even willing to open the purse string for that replacement, or you have to bank on flogging the deadwoods?

That’s to say nothing about the culture of excellence built by a squad required to compete year in year out. One of the lasting damage Moyes did to this club that we haven’t managed yet to recover from is the loss of that demand, that expectation to excel from everyone involved with club. Can you bank on Edu and Arteta to build that mentality for Arsenal, when neither of them were even close to possessing that during their playing career?

I did point out the selling of Coutinho as helping to allow them get the players they want.

Like I said, I think folk are exaggerating Project Youth. It's a young team, but many of the signings have good experience for their age. How many games has Odegaard Ramsdale played already for instance. It's not anything new for teams to target signings in the 22-25 bracket to help build.

Of course many things can go wrong with a project, but that's the same with every project, every managerial appointment even. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try dwork to some sort of plan, in fact we've been criticised for not seemingly doing so in the past.

I don't get your last paragraph? How do we know about mentality as players? Edu was a member of the Invincible team, & FA Cup & Copa America winner. Arteta was a captain of FA Cup winning teams the Pep headhunted from Arsenal when he was retiring because of the qualities he seen in him.

 

[Mastadon]

We’ve played a grand total of 6 games there isn’t really too much you can infer from that. We have been the worst run big club in the last 5 years that’s for sure, probably alongside United, but we are in the right direction now. Expectations are rock bottom now so the pressure is off let’s see what Arteta can do.

 

[SuperiorXI]

We’ve played a grand total of 6 games there isn’t really too much you can infer from that. We have been the worst run big club in the last 5 years that’s for sure, probably alongside United, but we are in the right direction now. Expectations are rock bottom now so the pressure is off let’s see what Arteta can do.

The pressure is off? Wait until you lose the next game... Arsenal fans will flip flop back to hating the manager and the pressure will be back. It could even be today.

 

[Daydreamer]

Liverpool also struck gold by signing one of the best forward in the world for a pittance. And have one of the best coaches in the world who have gone through a similar process before.

So many things can go wrong with these ‘project youth’. Half of those players may turn out not good enough, one of two really good one might get itchy feet, someone may get a big injury or many niggling ones that set him back a few years, the coach may get fired and new coach doesn’t fancy what he sees, then some important positions may see players winding down or the replacement not up to filling the void. Then what?

Looking at the Arsenal team at the moment, Lacszette wants out, and Aubameyang even if he doesn’t want the same have been rotten for a good 14 months or so. What happens if he doesn’t regain his form, who is a good striker at a good age you can buy to guarantee the goals while the rest of the team matures? Is Kroenke even willing to open the purse string for that replacement, or you have to bank on flogging the deadwoods?

That’s to say nothing about the culture of excellence built by a squad required to compete year in year out. One of the lasting damage Moyes did to this club that we haven’t managed yet to recover from is the loss of that demand, that expectation to excel from everyone involved with club. Can you bank on Edu and Arteta to build that mentality for Arsenal, when neither of them were even close to possessing that during their playing career?

These are all good points.

Liverpool are interesting. They recruited brilliantly at the start of Klopp’s tenure despite not having CL football. Many of their signings (plus TAA from their academy) became key parts of PL and CL winning side. But they still need Barcelona to give them a ridiculous Coutinho windfall to bring in Alisson and van Dijk.

I think Arsenal have done the first bit. All six of our summer signings were on the pitch by the end of our last match. We’ve seriously strengthened both our squad and our 1st XI. But we need another window where we focus on a couple high-quality lynchpins (like Alisson and van Dijk).

It would need to be buys like Liverpool’s because while we can afford fairly high transfer fees, we don’t have the financial firepower to pay the sort of wages United and Chelsea do (plus we don’t have City’s lawyers to hide our true wage bill).

That (along with not currently offering CL football and lack of resale value) is why we targeted White when he was more expensive than Varane.

There is still a lot of work to do and there is no guarantee of success - but there is a clear strategy in place. Our owners didn’t spend £150m on a PR campaign as has been suggested in this thread. I would love it if our supporters had that much influence over the Kronkes - but that is famously not the case.

There are many ways to improve the fortunes of a football club. In an age of mercenaries, I’m personally enjoying watching a team full of players whom playing for Arsenal is clearly an honour. I’m not alone in that. I was at the Emirates for both games last week. We had over 50,000 for a League Cup game against lower league opposition and the crowd was buzzing. And the atmosphere against Spurs was literally the best since the move to Emirates. The players and fans have bought into a project. However it works out, surely it’s a good thing for football that a club like Arsenal is attempting to rebuild their team in a sustainable and methodical way?

It’s cool to get excited about signing Varane, Sancho and Ronaldo. But it’s also cool to be excited about signings with high potential that require coaching to reach their potential and be moulded into more than the sum of their parts. You can’t moan about petrol-rich clubs wrecking football and also laugh at the fans who are proud of their club for trying improve their club more organically.

 

[Mastadon]

The pressure is off? Wait until you lose the next game... Arsenal fans will flip flop back to hating the manager and the pressure will be back. It could even be today.

You mean Arsenal fans don’t hate him now?

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

I don't get your last paragraph? How do we know about mentality as players? Edu was a member of the Invincible team, & FA Cup & Copa America winner. Arteta was a captain of FA Cup winning teams the Pep headhunted from Arsenal when he was retiring because of the qualities he seen in him.

Edu had one good season out of 4 and ended up making only 80 apps over 4 years. It’s like if Owen Hargreaves becomes our DoF tomorrow, I can’t speak for others but from my POV that doesn’t qualify as someone who would know what to demand from his subordinates to build that culture.

Arteta was an above average player for an above average PL team, who got panicked bought by Wenger and went on to have a decent but unspectacular career in a team that regularly got trounced out of the CL and fight for top 4 PL. If you think one FAC and a couple of years setting cones for Pep is all it takes then sure, it counts.

Of course, that’s not to say that a stellar playing career is any indication of future coaching success, the Fergie school of coaches has rather dismal graduates from Bruce, Keane to the Nevilles and Ole, just as Henry and Viera for Arsenal. But if you are building a young team without senior players who can impart that mindset then it has to come from somewhere, and the goonsquad you have in charge doesn’t exactly inspire confidence.

 

[TJ Reid]

The pressure is off? Wait until you lose the next game... Arsenal fans will flip flop back to hating the manager and the pressure will be back. It could even be today.

All clubs have an element of the permanently disgruntled…even yours. Regardless of today’s result, I am feeling more optimistic than I’ve been in years, so let’s revisit this in a couple of months and assess progress then. Let’s also contrast and compare then how your team is developing.

 

[GoonerBear]

No-one is denying at the end of the day it's still a results driven business. The only difference is the amount of patience owners & fans will give to see improvement & achieve certain targets. If Arsenal don't improve on 8th this season, Arteta will be quite rightly under pressure.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Have Brighton ever dominated anyone as completely as they dominated Arsenal today?

 

[FootballHQ]

I must've been watching a different Ramsdale last two seasons, really good save at the end.

This is without question their best back 5 so need to stick with it baring injuries.

 

[GoonerBear]

Have Brighton ever dominated anyone as completely as they dominated Arsenal today?

They are no mugs, this calander year they've beat City, Liverpool, Spurs, Leicester & Leeds & drew with the likes of Chelsea & Villa. As many said on the match thread, think Potter is going on to bigger & better things soon.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

They are no mugs, this calander year they've beat City, Liverpool, Spurs, Leicester & Leeds & drew with the likes of Chelsea & Villa. As many said on the match thread, think Potter is going on to bigger & better things soon.

They were in a different league to Arsenal this evening, that’s for sure.

 

[GoonerBear]

They were in a different league to Arsenal this evening, that’s for sure.

Seem in a different league to a lot of teams when they play them. Their problem for the last couple of years is that they just struggle to finish.

 

[Mastadon]

I’ve wanted Arteta out since last season and I see no reason to change that view but the board have decided to back him no matter what so there we go. It was clear today the difference between a well coached team and us.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

I’ve wanted Arteta out since last season and I see no reason to change that view but the board have decided to back him no matter what so there we go. It was clear today the difference between a well coached team and us.

And I thank them for that, without all the Arse fan channels to provide some comedies life as Utd fans would be pretty unbearable this past decade.

 

[jakko]

Another clean sheet, 3 clean sheets in 4 games, this guy is the real deal.

 

[TJ Reid]

Have Brighton ever dominated anyone as completely as they dominated Arsenal today?

Has not have…and the premise of your question is as risible as asking why Man Utd didn’t lose to Everton

 

[TJ Reid]

They were in a different league to Arsenal this evening, that’s for sure.

Nope, I think they were in the same league…

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Has not have…and the premise of your question is as risible as asking why Man Utd didn’t lose to Everton

Great contribution.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Nope, I think they were in the same league…

Aaaaand you’ve topped it.

 

[FatTails]

Ramsdale 23, White 23, Odegaard 22, Tomiyasu 22 are the main first team signings & aren't exactly kids, & they all have a decent amount of experience & first team minutes for their age as well.

Lokonga & Tavares are younger but playing a more squad role.

Agreed about the results, so let's judge him on if the team improves position this season or not. I've consistently time & time again said that as well.



I did point out the selling of Coutinho as helping to allow them get the players they want.

Like I said, I think folk are exaggerating Project Youth. It's a young team, but many of the signings have good experience for their age. How many games has Odegaard Ramsdale played already for instance. It's not anything new for teams to target signings in the 22-25 bracket to help build.

Of course many things can go wrong with a project, but that's the same with every project, every managerial appointment even. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try dwork to some sort of plan, in fact we've been criticised for not seemingly doing so in the past.

I don't get your last paragraph? How do we know about mentality as players? Edu was a member of the Invincible team, & FA Cup & Copa America winner. Arteta was a captain of FA Cup winning teams the Pep headhunted from Arsenal when he was retiring because of the qualities he seen in him.

We’ve played a grand total of 6 games there isn’t really too much you can infer from that. We have been the worst run big club in the last 5 years that’s for sure, probably alongside United, but we are in the right direction now. Expectations are rock bottom now so the pressure is off let’s see what Arteta can do.

Beyond results, how’s the football under Arteta? It seemed very direct and reliant on counterattacks vs Spurs but I haven’t watched Arsenal against “lesser” sides.

 

[Pretzels81]

After an awful start to the 2021-22 season, in full relegation mode...it seems Arteta will finish 8th again. Glad to see he's still a reliable midtable manager.

 

[maniak]

Beyond results, how’s the football under Arteta? It seemed very direct and reliant on counterattacks vs Spurs but I haven’t watched Arsenal against “lesser” sides.

It's perfect if you're having trouble sleeping.

 

[VidaRed]

I’ve wanted Arteta out since last season and I see no reason to change that view but the board have decided to back him no matter what so there we go. It was clear today the difference between a well coached team and us.

How about you sign ole ?

 

[GoonerBear]

Beyond results, how’s the football under Arteta? It seemed very direct and reliant on counterattacks vs Spurs but I haven’t watched Arsenal against “lesser” sides.

Not great, or certainly not consistent anyway. The defence seems improved from the start of the season now everyone is fit, attack is pretty inconsistent mind you, perhaps what you get with young players. He needs to find a way to get them clicking better now, & to try & find some consistency.

 

[Samid]

5 goals in 7 games is insane. Even crazier when 3 of those came in a mad 30 minute spell against the main rivals where adrenaline and momentum probably played a part.

 

[Hansi Fick]

They are no mugs, this calander year they've beat City, Liverpool, Spurs, Leicester & Leeds & drew with the likes of Chelsea & Villa. As many said on the match thread, think Potter is going on to bigger & better things soon.

Arsenal could need him, for example.

 

[Daydreamer]

Beyond results, how’s the football under Arteta? It seemed very direct and reliant on counterattacks vs Spurs but I haven’t watched Arsenal against “lesser” sides.

We played incredible football against Spurs in the first half… but their midfield was non-existent.

We looked to be transitioning to 4-3-3 with Partey anchoring Smith-Rowe and Odegaard as free 8s, but we then quickly abandoned that and reverted to 4-2-3-1 to incorporate Xhaka. With him out I’d like to see us try that again against weaker sides as it allows us to field all our best attacking players (Smith-Rowe / Odegaard / Saka / Pepe / Aubameyang). However, I can see why we wouldn’t risk 4-3-3 away against an in-form Brighton. They’ve taken a fair few points against side a lot stronger than us.

Overall, I think Arteta needs to settle on a system. We played 3-4-3 counter-attacking wing play to beat City and Chelsea on the way to winning the FA Cup. We then began the next season playing 4-2-3-1 with our play going through Ozil at 10 and that was working. But then he fell out with Ozil… but didn’t switch formation so we had a style of play built around a number 10 with our only player capable of doing a job there exiles to the stands. Then we started chopping and changing and he’s been doing so ever since.

If we think 4-3-3 possession based football is the way to go, we need to play that in 80-90% of our matches, possibly reverting to a double-pivot against stronger teams. Otherwise we’ll never develop the partnerships and patterns of play required for it to work.

 

[DutchCruijff]

We’ve played a grand total of 6 games there isn’t really too much you can infer from that. We have been the worst run big club in the last 5 years that’s for sure, probably alongside United, but we are in the right direction now. Expectations are rock bottom now so the pressure is off let’s see what Arteta can do.

Arsenal's standards have plummeted. I'm seeing fans justify a draw away to Brighton.

Proper midtable antics.

If Leicester get their act together and WHU, Villa & Everton maintain their course, then could see Arsenal finishing around 8th again.

 

[redrobed]

Thoughts?

Makes me sick. They don’t get a trophy for beating their rivals. Beyond a disgrace

 

[Paxi]

Wenger reincarnate managed to nick a point from Brighton and their fans seem to be pleased with that. How the mighty have fallen. Truly is incredible to see.

 

[GoonerBear]

Arsenal could need him, for example.

Think I've said before I'd take him if Arteta doesn't work out. First really came to my attention when his Ostersund team beat a Wenger team in a Europa League game at The Emirates & he's done well against us ever since.

Arsenal's standards have plummeted. I'm seeing fans justify a draw away to Brighton.

Proper midtable antics.

If Leicester get their act together and WHU, Villa & Everton maintain their course, then could see Arsenal finishing around 8th again.

Wenger reincarnate managed to nick a point from Brighton and their fans seem to be pleased with that. How the mighty have fallen. Truly is incredible to see.

Not arrogant enough to say we have a divine right to win every game. Going to Brighton isn't easy as lots of better teams than us have found out.

It's not to say I'm not disappointed in how we played, we need to improve but sometimes you just need to accept a draw & move on. It's funny DutchCruijff mentions Leicester because Brighton have already beaten them. We know the other teams mentioned are our 'rivals' this season but there's 4 points between 2nd & 10th & nearly every team is dropping points all over the place so think it's a bit unfair to single us out, just shows its a tough league.

 

[Walrus]

Its absolutely mental what an easy ride and how much positive media Arteta gets. A good performance against Spurs (who themselves were utterly appalling) and we had an entire week of plaudits being given and how its the start of something big.

Completely outplayed and dominated yesterday against Brighton, who were incredibly unlucky not to get the three points, and I have yet to see anyone bat an eyelid or raise any questions. In fact the narrative seems to be about how they have kept another clean sheet.

Truly bizarre.

 

[Hansi Fick]

Palace at home I have as an absolute must win. There's a few things you cannot afford to have happen as a manager. Like Moyes could not afford to lose at home to Everton, Arteta certainly must beat a Vieira-coached Palace.

So he's got 6 points from the first 5 games, in order to reach the 18 points from 10 games benchmark we set as a bare minimum, he needs 12 points, or 4 wins from the next 5 games. It's not impossible..

10 points after 7 games - 3 wins needed to reach the target.

So tonight is a must win game not merely for the symbolics

Arteta getting a lucky break with the absence of Zaha..

 

[Samid]

Hard-fought point against a local rival. Fair play.

 

[Teja]

Damn they equalized .. I assumed they'd lose.

 

[MUFC OK]

Funny to see Ars fans slating Partey, he looked incredible for Atletico against Liverpool and I personally thought we should go for him.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Must be nice, we could never get a point.

 

[Sanchez7]

Lucky to get a point today as Palace were the better team. Having said that, Arsenal only 3 pts behind us having already played Chelsea, City and Spurs.