A race doesn't own a certain type of music. people borrow from all cultures and not just in music.
Has political correctness actually gone mad?
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A race doesn't own a certain type of music. people borrow from all cultures and not just in music.
It’s not just music when there is a huge $$ sign attached to it. And there is a long history of artists screwing over black people. I was also mostly responding to your and some other poster (post mahone) saying times change. This video was from decades ago and little seems to have changed.
When it comes to screwing artists over I feel differently. That's wrong. Cultural appropriation though I don't see as an issue in itself...unless like you say it is used primarily as a way to screw black people over.
Keep Nicki out of this.
Cultural appropriation doesn’t happen in a vacuum. Rachel Dolezal is still out here making money, publishing books etc. The same way Post Malone is making music covered in dreds and tattoos. IMO, it rarely doesn’t involve screwing other people over.
I guess I just see it a bit differently. Culture changes and borrows aspects from others all of the time - I think there's probably more focus on this particular aspect of it because of the history of racism towards black people.
Is it cultural appropriation for black women to straighten their hair, contour their noses to make them more aquiline, or wear wigs made of the hair of Indian hair?
One of the biggest selling beauty products in India is bleaching cream, is that cultural appropriation?
What about a Chinese person with a perm, is that allowed?
To be honest, it only seems to get called cultural appropriation when it's white people doing black people stuff. All of the other cultures are ignored and black people have free range to pick whatever they want from other cultures.
@villain has mentioned repeatedly that its about taking how people are taking fashion from black people without truly understanding the pain that those fashions are intertwined with, but how many black women think about the destitute Indian women that are selling their hair for food that can be used for hair extensions?
No culture exists on its own, there needs to be cultural interchange for a culture to survive and grow. That inevitably leads to cross contamination. People are picking on Jesy because she is an easy target, but if you want cultural isolation, make sure your culture isn't absorbing from another culture first, rather than having a go at a woman who has a tan because she went on a three week holiday before a video shoot!
One of the biggest selling beauty products in India is bleaching cream, is that cultural appropriation?
What about a Chinese person with a perm, is that allowed?
To be honest, it only seems to get called cultural appropriation when it's white people doing black people stuff. All of the other cultures are ignored and black people have free range to pick whatever they want from other cultures.
@villain has mentioned repeatedly that its about taking how people are taking fashion from black people without truly understanding the pain that those fashions are intertwined with, but how many black women think about the destitute Indian women that are selling their hair for food that can be used for hair extensions?
No culture exists on its own, there needs to be cultural interchange for a culture to survive and grow. That inevitably leads to cross contamination. People are picking on Jesy because she is an easy target, but if you want cultural isolation, make sure your culture isn't absorbing from another culture first, rather than having a go at a woman who has a tan because she went on a three week holiday before a video shoot!
This thread stays on brand...
It's almost as if you're being deliberately obtuse.
You couldn't have found a worse example. That product is literally one of the most disgusting pieces of marketing that I've ever seen and people have protested against that for ages, except that in a country as backward as ours, no one will ever give a shit about it. It literally promotes discriminating people based on skin color - something that has been a part of this culture since ancient times and to this day people with lighter/fairer skin (which is literally the name of the cnut product - Fair and Lovely/Handsome) are always considered superior regardless of anything else. People with darker skin to this day are openly mocked throughout the country with zero realization. I mean, the fecking ad of the product literally shows a girl with darker skin going for a job and getting rejected, then using this to make her skin lighter and getting the job just because of a different skin colour.
Forget cultural appropriation, that shit and what it represents in this culture is downright pathetic and nauseating.
Can you show me a case of "cultural appropriation" that is not white people stealing black culture?
Yeah, I agree, borrowing from another culture should involve getting a good understanding of the struggles that culture has been through, but it should be a two way street. There are other cultures that have been disgustingly appropriated without a second glance to their struggles. How many Chinese and Arabic tattoos do you see in non Chinese/Arabic people, the American dollar has a pyramid on it, Native Americans were used to sell cigarettes. None of that is treated the same as black fashion being coopted by white people, there is no where near the outrage.
What is being discussed here is not "cultural appropriation", it's "Black fashion theft"
I agree mate, but nevertheless, it shows that cultural absorbing happens all the time in all cultures
No he doesn't need, because we are not here sitting in a debate club trying to humour ourselves with 'more examples of the same' - this is being discussed specific to white people impersonating a culture they have disregarded and discriminated for centuries - there's no necessary to draw equivalences for the sake of it especially when it comes to a topic concerning a race and what they have experienced which is completely individual to them. These are just stupid diversion topics trying to deflect from the actual issue and honestly, if you haven't been at the end of the said issues and have no way of ever understanding it, rather take a backseat instead of forcing them to come out and explain their problems to you. And even after having done that it's barely of any use to some - so just let the ones concerned take this up.
Except what you have said has absolutely nothing to do with white people. That's been part of the culture here long before they knew white people existed. It's simply one of many disgusting forms of discriminations that has been practiced here since forever.
He said Bunk, now I want to rewatch The Wire.
How is it a diversion? Where have I said that people shouldn't understand the culture they have borrowed from? That should be the point, not banning them from borrowing at all.
Why should black women borrow Indian women's hair without fully appreciating the suffering that billions have in India? If they are asking Jesy to, shouldn't they also?
Because black people did not spend centuries making Indian people their slaves and discriminating them based on the very same cultural traits they now want to impersonate? It's not difficult to understand.
Yeah, it goes back to the indo aryan invasions. Crazy that, bunch of whiter people invaded, conquered and everyone tried to look like them.
Loads of Europeans took on roman and Greek looks too. Large portions of the world wear trousers, a celtic fashion.
As I said, when you have two or more cultures they cross contaminate and cross pollinate. I don't know why Jesy is getting blasted so much about this.
Which black people are you talking about?
The caliphates? Idi Armin's Uganda? The current South African government? The descendents of slavers and slaves who are controlling half the world with strategic military capitalism?
Anyway
Somebody please help this guy. I've neither the patience nor the interest.
ffsLook, I'm not trying to be obtuse or awkward. I do understand the anger behind seeing someone who hasn't been through the struggle basking in the glory of that struggle.
Its just that this argument of "cultural appropriation" seems to have a very narrow focus of white people doing it to Afro-American, Afro-British or Afro-Caribbean people. Everyone else is excluded from the narrative.
More than half the world live in East/South East Asia, the majority far poorer than any Afro-American or Afro-British, trapped in poverty by a capitalist systems that rewards those living in the western world. Exactly where the Afro-American and Afro-British (and I) live. And they appropriate not just the fashion of long dark hair from them, but the actual hair itself. I'm Sikh, we're not supposed cut our hair, ever, so how do you think I feel when I see a black woman with a stunning weave?
I have never, not once, heard an apology from the black community for that fashion. I am not saying the black community doesn't need an apology for the theft of their culture, I'm saying that they need to pay it forward too.
Ah what an excellent example, you have chosen.
Why do you think, in modern history, black women started wearing wigs and extensions so much? Because our natural hair was deemed unprofessional and dirty and we couldn't get hired when we wore braids, dreadlocks.
Which, if we go back to Jesy & cultural appropriation, it means that as a white woman she can perm her hair, frizz it up, braid it, dreadlock it or whatever because it looks cool and she wants to try something a bit different, and face no real world repercussions as a result.
But when people with dark skin have those same hairstyles they get rejected from job interviews for not looking 'professional', or as kids they get sent home for failing to comply with the school uniform because their hair isn't 'neat'.
So once again - if natural black hairstyles was accepted and loved on black skin, like it is on non black skin, this wouldn't be an issue, but its not, so it is.
Also funny how you've only implied that black women wear wigs, when statistically white women wear a helluva lot of wigs & extensions too, I don't have the research to back it up, but purely on a numbers game I wouldn't be surprised if the two are similar. Black women just have the stereotype of being the only race to wear wigs because it looks most obvious on us when we do it & there's the stereotype that we can't grow our own hair long.
But the point you also have the choice to change your look. Specifically using the hair of a poverty stricken lady in India or China. And I say, let Jesy do what she wants, you do you, but if you require an apology from her when she borrows, realise you owe one if you also borrow
And Native American people, and Asian people, etc.
This thing you're talking about that it's just black fashion, that's something you made up.
Who has asked Jesy for an apology? I simply stated why she's faced criticism, but you are being obtuse or intentionally misunderstanding because I believe I've explained it to you on 3 separate occasions now.
From my perspective, I simply want black women to be appreciated when they do and wear the same things that white women get appreciated for when they take those same things from a different culture.
Let's start there and the conversations about cultural appropriation will go away.
And once again, that hair doesn't only get sent to black women, but white women (and possibly other races) who also wear wigs.
To be fair, we've been talking about Jesy here and that's where the whole cultural appropriation stuff has come from. To me she looks more Indian than black anyway, so I find it funny that she's being called out for looking "black". And her tan is natural anyway.
If someone is criticised, isn't an acceptance of fault and an apology expected?
Hair does get sent too lots of different women, but it is only the black women who don't have straight black hair in their culture. The same cherry picking of a culture is going on there too, but is ignored by the exact people criticising.
You're putting words in mouth, once again I've never asked Jesy for an apology.
I'm simply stating that black women should get appreciated for the very things they created as part of their culture.
So because black women don't grow straight hair, they are the only ones culturally appropriating straight hair, and therefore they should apologise for contributing to the practice of Indian and Chinese women cutting their hair?
But the women who do grow straight hair and also wear wigs aren't at fault, and shouldn't have to apologise for their part?
I never said you did. You said you were explaining the criticism, I said if someone is criticising, they probably want an apology. It's the people criticising Jesy I don't agree with. Specifically those black women who wear wigs but don't appreciate the cultures that encourage long black hair.
And yes, specially, black women do not have straight black hair in their culture. European women have straight black hair sometimes, Hispanic women do, Arabian women do, but black women do not. And because they don't, if they do wear that fashion, it's a borrowed fashion.
You're completely ignoring why black women wore those straight hairstyles in the first place, i've written it before you can read above if you've forgotten.
And you're moving the goalposts because originally your concern was that Indian women were cutting their hair so black women can wear wigs. Now your concern is not about Indian women who are having to cut their own hair (because i've explained to you that it's not just black women contributing to it) but rather its specifically black women who deserve criticism because they can't control how their natural hair grows, but every other race who wear wigs shouldn't be criticised.
At this point I'm going to believe you're trolling, and if you're not then i'd prefer you don't quote me again, it's useless.
To be fair you've repeatedly said that cultural appropriation is only called that when it's "white people doing black people stuff". This is wrong, obviously wrong. The "whole cultoral appropriation stuff" is because of this woman in this specific instance in this specific Redcafe thread, not in general.
And you are completely ignoring that Indian women today are having to cut off their hair because of the economic capitalistic oppression imposed by the west.
Black women enjoy the beauty of long straight hair without having to live in those disgusting conditions, but instead profit from that economic oppression by dint of being lucky to be born in the right place.
I haven't said other women shouldn't be criticised, but there is a difference between those women and black women because you can't grow that hair in your culture at all, so if you have that hair you are mimicking an external culture.
A white woman could say she's trying to look like a white woman with straight black, same as a Hispanic woman or an Arabic woman. A black woman can not say she has a look that's "in culture", with straight hair.
Did Jesy or even any of Jesy's ancestors profit from the slave trade any more than women, any women in the western world do by oppressing the third world now?
I hate when people say stuff like this because life you really pay attention, plenty of black people have been accused of appropriating other cultures. Insinuating that it’s only a problem when it happens to black people is pathetic.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....n-saturday-night-live-performance-2321789?amp
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...ina-cover-instagram-twitter-a8998231.html?amp
Here’s another example.
You have to wonder if a lot of the fuss about cultural appropriation is kicked off by people who don’t really care about it but see an opportunity to score points in the culture war.
Is there something inherently wrong with Malone being covered in dreds and making money?
I'm glad to be corrected, but I don't think ANY of these women should be criticised and most of the people who are criticising are hypocritical.
So many people shout cultural appropriation without looking at the clothes they're wearing or the hairstyles they have. As I said, any black woman with straight hair, any Indian with blonde hair, anyone who dresses like a fecking alien, have no right to criticise this lady without talking about the way they themselves are dressed first.
I'm saying cultural appropriation happens all the time, in every culture, and its a good thing.
Didn't vikings have dreads or is that just a Hollywood thing?
They had braids.
Aren't Malone's braided?