F1 2021 Season

Fluctuation0161 said:
Sorry?

Great drive by Max, in the faster car. But the strategy won Red Bull that race.
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Yeh pincer movement by RB that Mercedes have done often to others. Lewis could have gone longer on first set of tyres if it wasnt for Perez putting. Mercs had to cover that off.

Mercs lost some pace today as they had to raise the ride height of the car as it was bottoming out too much in practise and the risk of DNF was too great.

We really need lewis to win a GP to keep it close but I think it might be over after next two gp. Mexico and brasil both tracks that favour the RB over the Mercedes.

Max deserves the championship this season, best car on the grid. However I really want it to go to last GP of the year.
 
Leg-End said:
A lot of it is that I think, someone is finally challenging the all dominant force. Vettel was largely hated during his dominant phase, I like him now.

I don’t like Max and I don’t think I ever will but he’s quick as feck and says what he thinks, he will gain fan base (much like Kimi did) from that alone. Any driver from Red Bull would have to go a long way for me to support them, I dislike them more than anything.
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Pretty much sums up my feelings also.
Add Horner in to that, he is such an unlikeable person.
Also agree about Seb.
 
rpitroda said:
Max is just relentless. I can’t think of a time he’s made a mistake when under pressure this year. He’s got a long career ahead to be able to match Hamilton and the greats but fair play to him, he’s been really incredible this year.
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Monza says hi. :)
 
I would happily never hear the phrase ‘dirty air’ ever again. Wish these cars could actually race more often.
 
dinostar77 said:
Your wish might be granted next season.
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The rumours of the new cars only being 4-5 tenths off this years cars has me sceptical already, ground effect influence will help a lot but these machines are so complex you just know dirty air will still be a thing.
 
GoranIvanisevic said:
Not saying he is a bad driver, he's obviously extremely quick. I am just saying I don't understand why people like him
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You don't understand why people like someone who is multi WC capable? Strange.

Great race, well done Max! Happy for Sergio too. Hopefully does even better in his home GP!
 
Leg-End said:
The rumours of the new cars only being 4-5 tenths off this years cars has me sceptical already, ground effect influence will help a lot but these machines are so complex you just know dirty air will still be a thing.
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At present when the following car is within 2 seconds it can lose upto 80% downforce in dirty air. The projections are that the loss next year will be 15-20%, meaning that the following car will be able to get very close, somewhere around 0.2-0.5 behind before the dirty air has an effect. So in theory alot more overtaking.

The ramifications of this could be huge not only in race but also in qually. For example at Singapore you currently need a 6 second gap between you and the car in front during qually for all the turbulent air to settle down. Next year in theory that turbulent air could be down to a second or less. Regardless next season is going to be very interesting.
 
How do people actually watch the race and say stuff like Redbull was slower. Hamilton had a great start with clean air in front of him but couldn’t pull away at all,does that not show anything
 
Fans always go crazy for the next big talent to challenge the best in F1 it’s always been like this. Alonso got when challenging Michael, Lewis got it against Alonso, Seb too and Max (Lando to lesser extent) against Lewis.
 
Very good drive from Max and great tactics with the first undercut and pitting early on second stop to prevent undercut from Lewis.
Also great drive from Lewis, thought he will get the win after that initial pace after the second stop but that pace took away tire advantage.

I hope that Max keeps calm head and win the championship but there is no denying that Lewis is proving wrong everyone who were saying that he has won all those championships just because of Mercedes advantage.

Interesting 5 races awaits.
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
How do people actually watch the race and say stuff like Redbull was slower. Hamilton had a great start with clean air in front of him but couldn’t pull away at all,does that not show anything
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There seems to be a fantasy narrative with some people on here that somehow Max is the underdog this year and has dragged a average RedBull car to greatness. If he was driving a Haas, then that Haas would be challenging for the title as well.

Takes all sorts.
 
dinostar77 said:
At present when the following car is within 2 seconds it can lose upto 80% downforce in dirty air. The projections are that the loss next year will be 15-20%, meaning that the following car will be able to get very close, somewhere around 0.2-0.5 behind before the dirty air has an effect. So in theory alot more overtaking.

The ramifications of this could be huge not only in race but also in qually. For example at Singapore you currently need a 6 second gap between you and the car in front during qually for all the turbulent air to settle down. Next year in theory that turbulent air could be down to a second or less. Regardless next season is going to be very interesting.
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That sounds promising for sure. As you say, qualifying could be fun trying to time slipstream?
 
Jerch said:
Very good drive from Max and great tactics with the first undercut and pitting early on second stop to prevent undercut from Lewis.
Also great drive from Lewis, thought he will get the win after that initial pace after the second stop but that pace took away tire advantage.

I hope that Max keeps calm head and win the championship but there is no denying that Lewis is proving wrong everyone who were saying that he has won all those championships just because of Mercedes advantage.

Interesting 5 races awaits.
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Very interesting... a safety car... a mistake and all of a sudden there can be a big change

I fancy Max/ red bull based on nothing more than the red bull seems to have handled high temperatures well and of course we have some pretty hot tracks left

Mexico, Brazil, Qatar, Saudi and Abu Dhabi

I wouldn't be surprised if either max or Lewis got a dnf at one of them though and that could make a huge difference
 
FreakyJim said:
Why is Perez a billion miles behind? Doesn't he drive a redbull car as well?
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To be fair, he was completely dehydrated as he didn't have a drink and was racing in Texas. Once it became clear he wasn't catching Hamilton he focused on managing his race to secure the podium.

Also he blew the doors off Bottas all weekend, who could barely get past an inferior car with a damaged front wing.
 
sun_tzu said:
Very interesting... a safety car... a mistake and all of a sudden there can be a big change

I fancy Max/ red bull based on nothing more than the red bull seems to have handled high temperatures well and of course we have some pretty hot tracks left

Mexico, Brazil, Qatar, Saudi and Abu Dhabi

I wouldn't be surprised if either max or Lewis got a dnf at one of them though and that could make a huge difference
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A dnf could decide this championship.

Also your right, the RB is better at high temperature tracks than Mercedes.
 
dinostar77 said:
A dnf could decide this championship.

Also your right, the RB is better at high temperature tracks than Mercedes.
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With each of them likley to be pushing hard... no engines left (without penalties) and some circuits that are pretty tough on engines left I really think one of them having a dnf or serious engine issues is more probable than not
 
senorgregster said:
I feel like I heard Lewis must have another engine change. I thought he just had one? Perhaps I misheard?
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Only a partial change I think, cause the rest of the engine was still in good state. Maybe that detoriated more and quicker than expected?
 
Exciting race, we've seen Rosberg and Bottas make mistakes under pressure, Max is just too good.

Don't think Merc had the pace to make any strategy work, Red Bull had them covered but maybe Merc left it one or two laps late to pit for the best chance, he seemed to lose quite bit during the last lap before pitting. Lewis may have got a sneak into DRS range for a moment but I don't see him making it stick, just not enough extra pace to follow. Still great to see two fast top drivers going at it.
 
dinostar77 said:
There seems to be a fantasy narrative with some people on here that somehow Max is the underdog this year and has dragged a average RedBull car to greatness. If he was driving a Haas, then that Haas would be challenging for the title as well.

Takes all sorts.
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It's been clear that the RB and Merc have been trading places for the fastest car all year. Seems to change from track to track, which is expected.

There is no fantasy that Max is driving a Haas level car with the majority of his fans. But he's been arguably the best driver this season. Made far less mistakes and has had a lot of bad luck.
 
senorgregster said:
I feel like I heard Lewis must have another engine change. I thought he just had one? Perhaps I misheard?
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No you heard right, there is a change he could take another engine.
Mercedes not have a good time , they seem to have lost there invincibility tag.
Found this.
Olav Mol has shared more information about the Mercedes engine problems prior to qualifying. Valtteri Bottas has now put in his sixth combustion engine and it's not out of luxury. It took Mercedes a while to identify the problem, but Mol knows it is probably to do with the pneumatic valves.
At Mercedes they are shouting, 'No, it's different, we have another problem with the pneumatic valves. I heard that from Karun Chandhok. He said to me that he knows someone who works on those engines at the factory. That seems to be the problem."

Valve springs used to be used in Formula 1, but pneumatic valves have been used for some time now. "So basically they push those valves down with a puff of air and with a vacuum, they are brought back up again," Mol explains the operation. "There's a bottle on there, there's 200 bar open. That is so high. You'll never get that closed perfectly, also because air has to go out."

He continues: "Five percent leakage, they can ride out a whole race on that, that's all okay, but when it goes towards ten percent (like with George Russell in Austria) then you have to stop. Then you see one of those guys go in with a bottle and they re-pressurise the system to keep the engine running."
 
pauldyson1uk said:
No you heard right, there is a change he could take another engine.
Mercedes not have a good time , they seem to have lost there invincibility tag.
Found this.
Olav Mol has shared more information about the Mercedes engine problems prior to qualifying. Valtteri Bottas has now put in his sixth combustion engine and it's not out of luxury. It took Mercedes a while to identify the problem, but Mol knows it is probably to do with the pneumatic valves.
At Mercedes they are shouting, 'No, it's different, we have another problem with the pneumatic valves. I heard that from Karun Chandhok. He said to me that he knows someone who works on those engines at the factory. That seems to be the problem."

Valve springs used to be used in Formula 1, but pneumatic valves have been used for some time now. "So basically they push those valves down with a puff of air and with a vacuum, they are brought back up again," Mol explains the operation. "There's a bottle on there, there's 200 bar open. That is so high. You'll never get that closed perfectly, also because air has to go out."

He continues: "Five percent leakage, they can ride out a whole race on that, that's all okay, but when it goes towards ten percent (like with George Russell in Austria) then you have to stop. Then you see one of those guys go in with a bottle and they re-pressurise the system to keep the engine running."
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Take everything Olav Mol says with a bucket of salt. He spouts so much crap during his race commentary it's unreal. Viaplay beating Ziggo Sport to the F1 2022+ broadcasting rights in The Netherlands brings with it a lot of questions and one of those is whether they can find a better commentator. Shouldn't be that hard to be honest.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
No you heard right, there is a change he could take another engine.
Mercedes not have a good time , they seem to have lost there invincibility tag.
Found this.
Olav Mol has shared more information about the Mercedes engine problems prior to qualifying. Valtteri Bottas has now put in his sixth combustion engine and it's not out of luxury. It took Mercedes a while to identify the problem, but Mol knows it is probably to do with the pneumatic valves.
At Mercedes they are shouting, 'No, it's different, we have another problem with the pneumatic valves. I heard that from Karun Chandhok. He said to me that he knows someone who works on those engines at the factory. That seems to be the problem."

Valve springs used to be used in Formula 1, but pneumatic valves have been used for some time now. "So basically they push those valves down with a puff of air and with a vacuum, they are brought back up again," Mol explains the operation. "There's a bottle on there, there's 200 bar open. That is so high. You'll never get that closed perfectly, also because air has to go out."

He continues: "Five percent leakage, they can ride out a whole race on that, that's all okay, but when it goes towards ten percent (like with George Russell in Austria) then you have to stop. Then you see one of those guys go in with a bottle and they re-pressurise the system to keep the engine running."
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That doesn't make any sense.

The valve system won't lose air due to engine wear, it's a sealed unit.

Look at this video below, it explains how a similar system would work. While the car does require air and fluids to run a lot of the systems, if they're having to retop up the air it's usually more due to a leak elsewhere.

As they also say, pnuematic valves are not a new technology to F1. There's no chance they've suddenly forgotten how to make these work. None of the other Mercedes customer's are having trouble with this either, so that also rules it out IMO.

Mercedes are just runnng their engines at full power in the fight with red bull. I doubt they've ever had to push them close to 100% in all races in recent years.

 
Adam-Utd said:
That doesn't make any sense.

The valve system won't lose air due to engine wear, it's a sealed unit.

Look at this video below, it explains how a similar system would work. While the car does require air and fluids to run a lot of the systems, if they're having to retop up the air it's usually more due to a leak elsewhere.

As they also say, pnuematic valves are not a new technology to F1. There's no chance they've suddenly forgotten how to make these work. None of the other Mercedes customer's are having trouble with this either, so that also rules it out IMO.

Mercedes are just runnng their engines at full power in the fight with red bull. I doubt they've ever had to push them close to 100% in all races in recent years.

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Cheers , the vid explains a lot and I would agree, the valves are not the problem.
Running the engines at 100% wont help, they will not have had to do that many time before this season.
Other Merc engine users have had to replace engine this season , Aston and McLaren in the last race.
There is something clearly wrong other than the 100% running with the Merc engine this season.
Is the problem Mercedes are building for more customers and Honda just Red Bull and Toro Rosso
 
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