Well realistically most of them are going to either need electric or hydrogen boilers. So we're going to have to ensure the new builds won't be adding to that strain on the grid if possible by installing more energy efficient options or we won't be able to decarbonise the electricity grid for an even longer time. Larger buildings may well use fuel cells but I can't see them becoming widespread in private homes.
Insulate Britain Protests
- Thread starter Murder on Zidanes Floor
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Well realistically most of them are going to either need electric or hydrogen boilers. So we're going to have to ensure the new builds won't be adding to that strain on the grid if possible by installing more energy efficient options or we won't be able to decarbonise the electricity grid for an even longer time. Larger buildings may well use fuel cells but I can't see them becoming widespread in private homes.
True to a degree. Carbon emissions of a building in its entire life span, or the "whole life carbon of a building" isn't only the operational carbon (emissions during the use of the building) but also the embodied carbon (all construction stages from material manufacture, transport up until demolition and disposal).
RICS study on retrofitting to decarbonize existing housing stock from 2018
The problem here is that if you want to claim past direct action as justification, then you have to own all the direct action not just cherry pick your causes, there are some pretty miserable ideologies which loved to take it to the streets and came to power that way and you are defending their methods here. Sometimes I think it isn't the cause as these people fasten on to whatever rational they can find to increase their self importance and they love the power they think it gives them over other people. Authoritarians do authoritarianism.
Its easy to book a day off put on your anorak and go feck someone else's day up.
Protest by all means but direct action is arrogant and no one wants or elected you to decide anything.
Let's be honest, the impending doom is a good thing. Be honest with yourself, is existence really worth saving?
Depends on what aspect of it you mean. Well I mean yes there are, hundreds in fact, but it's quite a broad area of problems to find one specific study.
You'll find studies on the challenges of operational emissions Vs embodied carbon emissions. Plenty of info out there on construction methods, cold bridging and why insulation just in itself is not the solution (I mean this is literally written into building regulations guidance for new build houses and part of the whole SAP/energy calculation process, so it's well beyond being a study). Loads of reports out there that will tell you fully renewable energy is far more achievable than creating zero energy buildings just through construction material (have a look at the EU and UK green energy reports and energy prices). Loads of info out there on the current housing situation and general issue with population growth. Loads of info out there on the state of our current housing.
I mean I'm not being funny but most of this is a long way beyond just being the odd study here and there. To me these people are living on another planet to think it's as simple as they are acting like it is.
Yeah go for it!
I think the problem is if you resort to blocking roads and disrupting people's lives for a cause that, to most people, clearly is at best a side issue to a much bigger problem, and at worst a nonsense of a cause, then not only does your protest lose all of its power and support, but you are taking away from the power of protest in general.
It's escalation. You don't usually escalate unless you have something specifically important to say and that will get you support. Otherwise it normalises into just another expected inconvenience to people's lives that no one will care less about. Which is then a problem when there IS something to protest about.
It's mainly the financial incentive that's missing, in my opinion at least. Developers actually often work on surprisingly tight profit margins. They aren't going to fork out on heat exchangers for example, or higher efficiency standards, when no one is forcing them to.
It literally reads in the guidance that a developer "must consider" the use of high energy efficient sources, such as renewables. Nothing yet compels them to actually do it.
It's a chicken and egg thing as well. As soon as they were forced to do it, there'd be a market out there for it and the associated costs would probably quite quickly come down. Although that's just theorising.
Asking a question and not trying to make a point, if an entire street has ground heat pumps will it not very gradually lower the ground temperature until they're living in an icy, misty place a degree or even several below the rest of the area? If the maths has been done, and that couldn't happen, then it would be good, but has the maths actually been done?
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Cheers
I'm still upset about the poor people who just wanted to get to work but arrived late because of those selfish tibetan protesters.
OK I can understand that. You'd be OK with this same disruption if the cause was different? Something more important than home insulation?
I just think you're over-dramatizing things.
These lads are blocking roads, not lynching anti-insulation citizens.
At least the protesters burned to death in compensation.
And Tibet is still occupied. Suckers.
Ah ok, cheers. Yeah I'm pretty sure you're right - there's nothing massively cutting edge about most heat exchangers, I'm sure the costs would come down as the demand increases.
Ok, but still, didn't answer my question. You said insulating homes would arguably do more harm than good (presumably in terms of carbon emissions). I am yet to see a report or study that confirms this.
I am not advocating to insulate all dwellings in UK, and I don't agree with these protests. However, I think some or a good portion of house stock can be retro-fitted. Or at least carry a whole life carbon assessment and look at different measures.
Bit out of topic, but has anyone applied for external wall insulation grants?
Bit of a weird thing to protest about in such a way isn't it? Of all the things that are fecked
Blocking ambulances now I see.
Had to be dragged of the road by motorists so the ambulance could get through.
Had to be dragged of the road by motorists so the ambulance could get through.
Maybe I'm overthinking this, but something seems off about this Norton person
Like most of their protesters he's obviously not playing with a full deck.
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Since renewable are cheaper why would they need to?
He’s a fecking moron.
That Cameron guy totally humiliated Graham and he didn't even realise it.
I love the way Mike Graham pompously explains to that other great mind Jeremy Kyle how words are “currency” to him, like he’s Cicero or Edmund Burke. Transitive and intransitive verbs, Mike - look it up.
He couldn't back down even if he wanted to. His entire appeal is that he is an arrogant middle aged white bloke who thinks his 'common sense' makes him more knowledgeable than so called experts without him actually having to know anything. In the unlikely event that his ego would allow him to acknowledge that this isn't necessarily always true, too many of his listeners who spend their life boring strangers in pubs with their 'common sense' would feel betrayed.
Genuinely surprised none have taken a battering or been run over, not advocating that but when you consider the amount of hot heads driving around it’s only a matter of time.
Yes, walking down the M25? Such a good idea. Someone will get killed eventually.
If not one of them, one of the poor sods whose ambulance can’t get to where it’s going.
I remember he used to have a show on talksport called ‘The independent republic of Mike graham’. Always seemed a bit up himself.
Listening to James O'Brien yesterday, a truck driver got caught in the protests, and used it as his 'Sliding Doors' moment where he saw people willing to step in front of traffic and glue themselves to roads, and has now started looking to reduce his carbon footprint by removing meat from his diet as well as other measures (not sure if he's had his home insulated).
Some people are responding positively to this, despite the near-exclusive derision that (most of) the media are pushing.
Some people are responding positively to this, despite the near-exclusive derision that (most of) the media are pushing.
That’s nice to hear, the media are absolutely encouraging violence against these people.
It’s one of the big reasons I’ve given up meat.
That's the thing it's awareness raising. These people aren't doing it to be popular they just want awareness.
The result is a derision of their acts but it at least triggers people into some reflection. If the outcome is people thinking they're going about it wrong but their cause is right then that's job done.
I guess you have to admire their dedication considering all the hate they get but seeing someone poor old grandad getting abused by motorists all for the end result to be a random truck driver thinking he shouldn't eat bacon anymore is pretty depressing.
All these types of protests tend to show is our failure to collectively fight climate change. It's still all about individual consumer habits.
All these types of protests tend to show is our failure to collectively fight climate change. It's still all about individual consumer habits.
Yeah I agree with this, and to be fair isn’t the large majority of CO2 emissions down to a few hundred/thousand large businesses? Or have I made that up?
This is from 2017, although I can't imagine things are any better now.