That's not actually fraudulent in itself though, is it? So where does the fraud come into it?
Juventus in NEW financial scandal
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Not easy to demonstrate it in a trial, but in this case there are phone interceptions with the confirmation of this (where they said they needed to do this because they are in the shit). Higuain and Ronaldo deal destroyed them + also De ligt, Ramsey and Rabiot deal
They made hundreds of operations like this for 300 million, they call it mirror operations
it is always swap deals for the same amount in and out
+ In this case seems that there are also fake invoices, fake statement to the investors, and they call it as an accounting fraud system
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Right, thanks.
Is there any other logical reason for doing a Arthur/Pjanic swap in two separate +60m -72m deals, rather than a swap with €12m payment on top - other than to manipulate the books? I have no idea what the law says here, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's problematic. They didn't even bother to let a few days pass between the deals to create the illusion of independence.
It’s blatant money laundering. I can’t even think of an excuse that they can bring forward
More than england and germany for sure, less than portugal and probably less than spain, but the authorities over her don't turn as much of a blind eye to it
There is. And the reason is that's how swap deals work
Yeah, the whole thing just seems corrrupt.
Also, Juve with their 2 year loan deals for Chiesa and Locatelli for, 10m and zero, 2 of the best young players moving on those kind of deals to a top team. It just looks shady.
I'm not meaning to justify it, I just wonder where the line between accounting tricks and accounting fraud is and how you prove it to have been crossed.
I, for one, am shocked.
If they get found guilty on these then there are going to be serious ramifications. For instance those involved won't be able to hold such positions again (in any listed company) and will probably face jail time.
As for the club, they'll then be under FFP sanctions at a minimum (not sure they'll get the time barred pass.)
Haha, we can see already that there going to use 'the football market' as an excuse. If they weren't listed they may have a bit of wriggle room but providing wrong/fake information to investors and financial regulators in regards to revenue/invoices etc is a really serious issue.
This is getting out of hand. Relegate them or something... 
It is actually sad how much corruption exists in football in general, and that is just the surface stuff that we are kind of aware of.
Yeah, their defensive line is “accounting international practice in football industry”
I knew there was something going on with these clubs. They basically banked on a super League 100% happening - there is no way Barcelona and Juventus could have operated in the way they were with a 70-80% wage to revenue ratio, it was completely unsustainable. They gambled on being somewhere 'near' the top of the football pyramid for when the superleague happened and for that to happen they NEEDED to spend premier League levels of money without premier League revenue. Else be left behind when the league took off. Now it's not happened, I'm not surprised they're all in deep doo doo.
How strong is corporate governance in Italian football? I mean, you’d expect it to be….but then again you’d also expect it to be a bit shoddy
edit, and how strong are the sanctions of the Italian stock exchange
It's funny how they are seen (not sure if actually self-proclaimed) as the "team of Italy, the team of most Italians", but the Italian justice doesn't hesitate to fully investigate them regularly. Incredibly shady club.
In Spain, Madrid, Barca and Atlético get away with it.
In Spain, Madrid, Barca and Atlético get away with it.
Pogba in ruins
Terrible at hiding it is my guess or else the authorities don't turn a blind eye.
It doesn't do anything in terms of cash, and in terms of accounting it sums to zero eventually. By inflating the fees they can register a big profit that year, which means they can spend more without getting in trouble with FFP, but they can spend less the next years.
Say for simplicity that the players' book value is 0 right now, to make the math easier, and both given 5 year contracts. If they swap two players both valued at 0 for 5 years, then the impact on the books is 0 for all 5 years. If the players instead are both valued at 100m, then for the books it's +80m the first year, -20m the next 4.
Moronic.This is where I'd laugh at them for having gowls in their fan base who said Ronaldo was the problem. Now we have similar low intellect people posting here though so we can't even have that
hopefully we can get Cheisa on the cheap.
There is no fraud indeed, it is a widely adopted financial practice and Juventus, for once, is the only club to put real money into the Serie A system (€650m in the last two years).
It id just another concerted attempt at kicking the lion when it’s down. They were successful 15 years ago, they could well be again, if the sentimento popolare warrants it.
Colosseus’ gladiators, panem et circenses, same old story to distract the public from more serious matters.
Collaborating with other clubs in artificially inflated swap deals for hundreds of transfers isn’t ‘common practice in the industry’. It’s a murky legal area but let’s not pretend the majority of top European clubs are engaged in such practices, let alone the majority of football clubs at large.But… it is! You clearly enjoy stirring the pot, don’t you?
You are being reported a one-sided narrative, which most people clearly are willing to bite and happily spread. Let’s see where this goes.
Yeah I agree, they are.
Interesting to see how this will end up for Juventus. Hope they get docked points. Not sure why but I've grown to dislike them in recent years. I guess it's similar with Dortmund and we seem to be competing for the same players quite often.
You would have thought that they would have a lot more focus on keeping their house tidy and in order considering what happened to them in the past.
It they had the balls to do this in Portugal Porto and Benfica would of been in the second division years ago.This is getting out of hand. Relegate them or something...
Juve, atlético, Benfica, porto, barca ,all clube cut from the same cloth
Valuing an 18 year old with 3 serie A appereances to his name, in the final year of his contract, €18M and swapping him for 2 academy kids with 0 serie A appeareances is *NOT* standard practiceBut… it is! You clearly enjoy stirring the pot, don’t you?
And even if it were, so what, it's still fraud
It's really funny how Garganese is there defending Juventus. In my whole life, I haven't disliked "journalist" more. There are many different kinds of idiots, but Garganese is really sort that is always on the wrong side of pretty much anything.
To be fair football is a billion dollar industry. I would imagine this level of corruption exists in all the financial ecosystems that operate with this kind of money. Corruption or manipulation or things of the like. The only difference is the product that the business puts out, which in our case is football.
That's quite the victim complex you have going there
Let's hope they get relegated.
They'll still win Serie A before United win the Premier League
Nah, it is the local context, which you clearly do not know (and no one is pretending you should, mind).
This is just another dead chicken fed to piranha ponds: you like, you bite, you click, you read, then you will have another. Neither the prosecutors nor the media are accountable for the sh*t they put up, nor made to pay restoration in case these legal processes end in nothing, as too many in recent times.
Yet, character assassination (Andrea Agnelli recently, more than Juventus FC) has a scope: clickbaiting, accrediation in the public eye, even politics. A number of journos and prosecutors step up from their relatively unknown platforms through sensationalist sh*t and distorted narratives.
Something dodgy in Italian football...who could have forseen that
There may be some evidence where you can get away with this from a footballing perspective (points deduction, penalties etc) as whilst you're bad at it, there are others' who also do it.
This however is immaterial, as the real problem is that you're a listed company and you've inflated/created fake receipts and presented these to the market. That is one of the biggest no, no's for a listed company to do, as it increases the share price above what it should be, thus defrauding ordinary citizens.
If found true, the legal/financial sanctions they're going to face will be very serious whilst also opening them up to a massive tax investigation. This really isn't something they can get away with by saying 'it is common in the football industry' as otherwise it will allow other listed companies to do something similar as it will set a precedent.
Codacons (italian association of consumer) will ask to antitrust the relegation and trophies revoke