Will be bonus points for doing it on the PS5 F1 game next year. Brake test bonus.
F1 2021 Season
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
If either of them try that next week you would want them to be disqualified in the same way Schumacher was in 97.
You’d want that, but today suggests otherwise. The stewards explicitly say he suddenly hit the brakes, a 10s penalty is baffling.
He could see quite a bit more than that. The picture below is almost immediately before they make contact.
I know the head of the driver is seated lower, but he could see ahead through the corner. At least enough to know there's not anything occuring ahead.
In any case, any incident involving a car is flagged within seconds.
Max didn't do it on purpose to 'try and bash him'. He wanted Lewis to pass him before the DRS detection zone. He slowed quite a bit earlier, but Lewis didn't overtake. That part's in the FIA documents based on the driver's explanations. It's more likely Max started braking to make sure Lewis passed in time, expecting Lewis to know he was letting him go past, and Max trying to force the issue.
Also, Hamilton was on the radio after the incident in turn 1 on lap 37, when they touch before Verstappen left the track.
The contact when Lewis hit the back off Max was towards the end of the same lap.
If anything, it's a lot more natural for Lewis to assume he's giving the place back, rather than suspecting mischief.
But as Lewis apparently weren't told in time that Max would let him past, he'd be a bit indecisive for sure. Helped by Max swerving a bit.
Verstappen winning the world title would be intolerable. His antics have just been so spoiled, entitled, and dangerous, I simply cannot stand to see that sort of behaviour rewarded. I love to see aggressive, exciting competition, but fair competition. Two amazing drivers battling it out. None of these shady tactics. Verstappen constantly crosses the line to the reckless, to the point where it is easy to call it cheating. He keeps doing it because he is never properly punished. It's made worse by his garage. Horner is one of the most insufferable, odious sports personalities I have ever come across. I don't want him to be a part of a winning anything.
I'm hopeful that Verstappen can grow up and become the great champion that he so obviously is in the making. But to win it like this, with the shit he's engaged in this season.....Well, I just hope it doesn't happen.
I'm hopeful that Verstappen can grow up and become the great champion that he so obviously is in the making. But to win it like this, with the shit he's engaged in this season.....Well, I just hope it doesn't happen.
mate that’s the view from the onboard camera mounted a good amount above his head position. he doesn’t have that view at all.He could see quite a bit more than that. The picture below is almost immediately before they make contact.
I know the head of the driver is seated lower, but he could see ahead through the corner. At least enough to know there's not anything occuring ahead.
In any case, any incident involving a car is flagged within seconds.
Max didn't do it on purpose to 'try and bash him'. He wanted Lewis to pass him before the DRS detection zone. He slowed quite a bit earlier, but Lewis didn't overtake. That part's in the FIA documents based on the driver's explanations. It's more likely Max started braking to make sure Lewis passed in time, expecting Lewis to know he was letting him go past, and Max trying to force the issue.
Also, Hamilton was on the radio after the incident in turn 1 on lap 37, when they touch before Verstappen left the track.
The contact when Lewis hit the back off Max was towards the end of the same lap.
If anything, it's a lot more natural for Lewis to assume he's giving the place back, rather than suspecting mischief.
But as Lewis apparently weren't told in time that Max would let him past, he'd be a bit indecisive for sure. Helped by Max swerving a bit.
trust me in that position all he can see is the back of max’s car. it’s like sitting in a small car right behind a van and trying to see the road ahead
and yes, he did brake hard intentionally. Why would you slam your foot on the brake with somebody behind you otherwise? there’s no excuse for it. they have it there in black and white he braked heavily then sped off again
Why? Because I don't like Mercedes and am pointing out that they've done some scummy stuff this race which most on here choose to casually ignore.
- Bottas driving extremely slow during safety car so he would hold everyone up and be able to pit right after Lewis.
How is that allowed? No excuse for it really.
- Lewis purposely slowing down the field and creating a huge gap so Max had to wait extra long for everyone to form up, causing his tyres to cool down immensely which is how Lewis regained first position after the restart. A massive advantage obviously. If stuff like that is allowed these days nobody is going to want to be first on a restart, because you'll have no chance with number 2 and 3 having way better tyre temps. You're a sitting duck.
- Finally there's Lewis purposely running Max off the track at I think it was lap 43 (you can see him looking at Max in his mirror the entire time and going extremely wide) and Masi let him get off with a verbal warning for God knows why. Usually that's a 5s penalty.
Yeah you can say Max/RB did such and such and they were worse, sure, but that should hardly be a factor should it? The stewards should look at incidents objectively. Mercedes got away with everything I just mentioned. But when you mention suddenly it's all about Max/RB and how he's worse and you're just a Max apologist on here or whatever.
At the end of the day there's just no consistency in the penalties this season whatsoever. Whichever way you look at it Masi and the stewards have done a horrible job. Masi needs to go.
No need, they already had two tits in their office after the race.
Addressed the part about visibility in my post.
I didn't say he didn't break.
Slamming the break, and braked heavily is misleading though.
To reach 2.6g deceleration, Max would've decelerated his car by 14m/s(50kph) in roughly half a second (0.55s). That a bit less than half their normal braking for corners.
Yes, it happened fast, but that's mostly because of the relative speed. He had already coasted earlier to let Hamilton past. Keep in mind that Verstappen was expecting Lewis to pass him once he lifted, assuming Hamilton knew Max would let him past. He got impatient because he wanted Hamilton to pass before the DRS detection line. He did end up braking a bit harder than he should have. That's why the steward gave him 10 seconds.
Completely agree 100%. He is the future it's obvious - but not yet until he grows up.
Lewis pushing Max off the road for a 5s penalty
I see we’ve already forgotten Brazil
This. I’d be so willing to like Max, that’s the sad part.
10s penalty, which means nothing. Classic. I get they want to preserve the entertainment of the last race, but if you admit he brake tested there, 10s is just bullshit.
Anyway, at least it’s going to be a super exciting race.
Anyway, at least it’s going to be a super exciting race.
Anyone found any betting sites giving odds that both drivers DNF the final race? I can literally see Verstappen now, locking up and going into Hamilton on the long straight at Abu Dhabi.
Bonkers race.....Lewis had plenty of time to pass whether he knew the position was being given back or not and he didn't. Why not? Both are at fault but Max was always going to get a penalty.
So is the fear of Max doing a Senna because even though they are even on pts, Max would get the WC because of having more wins??
So is the fear of Max doing a Senna because even though they are even on pts, Max would get the WC because of having more wins??
Both are not at fault there. Drivers do not give positions back by slamming the brakes and parking in the middle of the track.
Shit week for you really either way then.
Don’t understand why people are so polarised over these two. It’s a competitive sport and it’s actually competitive for a change, just enjoy it!
It always shit so nothing new for me.
Because in a race where Max had 4 or 5 infractions (overtaking off track x2, rejoining unsafely, brake test, unfair 'let by'), one seriously dangerous, you're trying to play a silly game of whataboutism, including trying to make points that are in no way in violation of the rules (e.g. the gap before the restart). This race is one of the single worst examples of driver behaviour you will see but you want to respond with "but Valteri drove slowly". At no point have I ever seen you acknowledge a single thing Max has done wrong, I'm sure you're probably of the opinion that Brazil (and Spain and Imola and Monza etc.) were just 'racing' incidents. I happen to think Lewis' turn 1 was on the edge, but its not even in the same ballpark as any of those, so to suggest a penalty for Lewis today is laughable. Your constant 'Max vision' on this thread is well known and I'm not really sure why I spend the time to engage with it, but here I am....
Max was downshifting and Lewis knew it because he was downshifting as well....should of passed him.
Also this constant mention of Lewis driving slowly at restarts is so hilarious. It’s basically similar to time wasting in football where teams are kind of just pushing the rules a bit without causing any harm to anyone. Every single race that I have seen recently has had the drivers behind the pole guy driving slowly to get this advantage and it’s been done by both RB & Mercedes. It’s gamesmanship to gain a bit of an advantage which can in no way be compared to kind of stupid stuff Max has pulled off which is clearly endangering safety of other cars & drivers
Max trying every trick in the book here, guy just can't handle being overtaken and can't even give a place back, normally you lift and coast off the racing line and allow the car through and not interrupt your own pace too much but he decides to heavily brake down the middle.
Have to say while a very eventful race, I had my concerns about it being too dangerous and spoiling the flow of the race and it did indeed. I want to see racing drivers going at it lap after lap, not be stopped all the time and laps running out for racing. Not impressed with race control "I can only press so many buttons". F1 seems to be descending into a farce with the current operators.
Have to say while a very eventful race, I had my concerns about it being too dangerous and spoiling the flow of the race and it did indeed. I want to see racing drivers going at it lap after lap, not be stopped all the time and laps running out for racing. Not impressed with race control "I can only press so many buttons". F1 seems to be descending into a farce with the current operators.
I just hope race control don’t have to make significant decisions in the last race deciding the title because I think it’s going to end up in CAS
Problem is, you can't trust passing Max other than on a complete straight, and even then it can be dubious.
Looks like it was a shit show of a race, so I'm glad I didn't stay up for it.
Max really making it impossible to like him these days. In a situation where we have a potentially different title winner for the first time in years, it really takes a shit person to make me cheer for the team/driver who have continually won. Hopefully Hamilton can win comfortably next race, and then a different team can challenge instead of RB next season.
Max really making it impossible to like him these days. In a situation where we have a potentially different title winner for the first time in years, it really takes a shit person to make me cheer for the team/driver who have continually won. Hopefully Hamilton can win comfortably next race, and then a different team can challenge instead of RB next season.
Well that’s not very good in this day and age. They should be able to show degree of breaking surely.
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But why should he go past Max just before the DRS activation line so Max could blast right back past him.
He probably knew that Max was trying to let him past to avoid a penalty even if he didn’t know the direction came from Massi.
The thing was that Max made it obvious that he was only willing to do it on the activation line and also wanted Lewis wide giving him the best line into the DRS zone.
So Lewis wasn’t prepared to allow Max to dictate the passing point so Max broke with Lewis up his rear end.
So they came up with a "punishment" that has absolutely no effect or consequence. Donkeys running the FIA.
On point 2 they did in this race. When Max finally let Lewis past only to fly past him they immediately gave him the 5 second penalty for gaining an advantage off of the track.
After the race it should have been a grid penalty for the next race.
Nah they shouldn't do anything for the next race in my opinion. They should ban him for the first 3 races next year for the accumulative shit he's pulled. Weaving, brake checking, pushing people 3 tracks off wide.
Proper WC driver he is.
I've always found Hamilton and his fans insufferable, but the level of delusion of Max fans is unreal.
The true scousers of F1. Long may it continue!
The true scousers of F1. Long may it continue!
I honestly think they want a different winner. They had no problem giving Lewis a 20 place drop a few races ago for .2 of a mm gap on the back wing while RB repair their wing after every qualifying.
If the car in front of you is slowing to let you past, you have to go past in my opinion. Whether it's near a DRS zones shouldn't be a factor at all.
Else the car behind will end up hurting the race of the car in front unnecessarily. Say there are other cars trailing by a few seconds i.e. or if there's only a few laps left, the car behind would want to drag it out, and pass at an opportune time. Or you'll get situations similar to the one yesterday, when neither car wants to go first. Much cleaner to get it over with asap.
Similarly, when told to give up the position, the car in front should also let the car behind past at the earliest convenience, regardless of DRS zones.
Max did coast for a while before he braked, so if Lewis figured out what Max was trying to do, and neglected to pass because of the DRS detection line, then I'd feel he's partly at fault for the contact too. Even if Max is still predominantly at fault for braking a bit too sharply.
The scenes when these two clean each other out in the last race. 
A bit surprised Max got a penalty for the collision. He was dirty throughout but I think there was enough confusion about the whole incident to justify a non-decision, as this effectively was.
Overall, a 15-second penalty seems a reasonable punishment for his antics and fortunately, Hamilton would have likely overtaken eventually anyway with the way Max's tyres were looking at the end.
Spectacular race and the perfect outcome as a neutral. Really excited to see how this all ends. Hamilton overwhelming favourite now but it's a real possibility that Max runs them both off the course and wins because he'll take even more risks than usually.
Overall, a 15-second penalty seems a reasonable punishment for his antics and fortunately, Hamilton would have likely overtaken eventually anyway with the way Max's tyres were looking at the end.
Spectacular race and the perfect outcome as a neutral. Really excited to see how this all ends. Hamilton overwhelming favourite now but it's a real possibility that Max runs them both off the course and wins because he'll take even more risks than usually.
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No he shouldn’t. Max was trying to avoid a penalty by letting Lewis past then sailing past him with DRS. Why should he allow Max to get away with that.
This whole argument about DRS is irrelevant anyway. If Hamilton knew he was going to be let past he would have gone past with sufficient momentum that Max even with DRS wouldn’t have come back at him.
I honestly don’t think the DRS line crossed Hamilton’s mind even for one second, I just think he simply didn’t know what was going on. That’s on the stewards.
I think I said yesterday that I’d be fine with no penalty on the basis that the incident would have entirely been avoided if the stewards communicated in the right order, as long as it wasn’t clear that Max braked. I think the swerving is questionable but probably can just about get away with it. But the braking, regardless of whether he intentionally aimed to hit him or not, is just not acceptable and dangerous. To then award a 10s penalty, knowing that it is actually no punishment whatsoever, is just bonkers. It’s actually a farce. And all this bullshit is only serving to fuel Hamilton I feel. I honestly think Brazil unleashed a competitiveness in Hamilton that maybe was lost a bit due to constantly being the winner over the last few years.
Next week could either be an amazing race, or a really bad day for a sport whose governing body has taken actions which heighten the risk at the next race.
I honestly don’t think the DRS line crossed Hamilton’s mind even for one second, I just think he simply didn’t know what was going on. That’s on the stewards.
I think I said yesterday that I’d be fine with no penalty on the basis that the incident would have entirely been avoided if the stewards communicated in the right order, as long as it wasn’t clear that Max braked. I think the swerving is questionable but probably can just about get away with it. But the braking, regardless of whether he intentionally aimed to hit him or not, is just not acceptable and dangerous. To then award a 10s penalty, knowing that it is actually no punishment whatsoever, is just bonkers. It’s actually a farce. And all this bullshit is only serving to fuel Hamilton I feel. I honestly think Brazil unleashed a competitiveness in Hamilton that maybe was lost a bit due to constantly being the winner over the last few years.
Next week could either be an amazing race, or a really bad day for a sport whose governing body has taken actions which heighten the risk at the next race.
Stop trying to talk sense with Max fanboys, their golden boy can do no wrong.