Always wondered about that 'customer team' business. Since its always about not direct competitors, and therefore second or third tier teams, what's stopping the engine producing team to give b-quality blocks to the customer?
F1 2021 Season
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
This place used to have loads of TVs and showed loads of sport and did ok food too. It's by Hammersmith Bridge though so not bang central.
https://www.oldcityarms.co.uk/index
There's a sports bar in Victoria that's functional- several big screens. Drinks pricey, but much more central and your missus could go for a walk in nearby St James's Park, which is one of the best in London, or walk through the park to the West End if shopping is her thing (no sexist).
Expect multiple marquee brands from the VW group to feature in F1. Long term rumours of VW and RBR engine tie up, Audi having recent engagement with McLaren, and Porsche looking at a complete entrant as a team (most likely an acquisition). The key thing to understand is on a motorsport level, they all work very independently and having separate teams. So it's likely we'll see multiple brands from the same group.
It'll never happen. Success in F1 will only come with exclusivity on power units and any purchases will come with that clause in there. F1 needs more engine manufacturers if I'm honest, as it helps create the competition.
They will get the same spec engine as that's permitted in the rules, but certainly they're limited by the maps that are provided. Good example of this is insight from Matthew Carter, former CEO of Lotus Renault.
Cheers Jippy, I’ll check them out! Wife will be more than happy to escape to the shops with the credit card for a couple of hours.
Fellow pilots taking the piss should be the biggest indicator to Max he is very much in wrong here. I hope he takes notice.This used to be quite common. There are rules against it now though.
Factory teams still, obviously, have an advantage because they build the engine to fit their car, will have access to different engine maps etc.
Didnt Red Bull win with a customer engine from Renault in 2010 (when renault still were a factory team themselves)
Sounds like De Hems will have it on too if you want to join the Max fans. Decent beer and it's in Chinatown, so West End again and good food options.Cheers Jippy, I’ll check them out! Wife will be more than happy to escape to the shops with the credit card for a couple of hours.
https://www.dehemspub.co.uk/sport#:~:text=Look no further.,we've got you covered.
In 2010 Renault were on the way out. From that point on they were basically a works engine manufacturer for RBR.
Only a few days to go, anyone else getting nervous/excited already?
Nah, I've been saying Lewis will win it for weeks now and I stand by that so nothing to get nervous about
Very excited. Two of my favourite drivers go head-to-head in a showdown. What could possibly go wrong?
VW will only commit a single brand to f1, it makes no economical sense to have more than one. Audi makes sense. Porsche would have too much to loose as a brand.
So, as a relatieve outsider. It seems to me that most F1 drivers are actually rather entitled and arrogant pricks. Is it because it's mostly a rich people's sport? Or am I just projecting the personalities of Max, Lewis and Michael Schumacher unto an entire sport unfairly.
I don't think being humble and having hundreds of people travel the world year round just so you can go racing is a natural fit
Like most footballers then?
The truth is most elite sportspeople, getting paid millions, are the same.
I’m excited for it, I just hope the race lives up to the occasion. Quite easy being a Hamilton fan now, he’s got 7 after all, nothing will compare to 07, 08 and 14.
Nope. They're looking at multiples. They did it with LMP1 in the Endurance racing series, it's not beyond them to submit multiple brands to racing competition. Plus the dynamics of the team bosses and their historic relationships indicates that it's not going to be a single brand entry.
I feel it's worse in solo sports.
You're probably right to be fair.
Also like you say, F1 is usually a rich mans sport which makes these personality types more common.
They're not all from rich backgrounds actually. That's one of the surprising things I learned from watching Drive to Survive - although I do think most are. Either way, there are only 20 F1 racers, it's extremely cut-throat, so the only way to become one of those is to marry extreme ability with extreme confidence - otherwise you'll fall off someone along the way to the top. (Edit: except for Mazepin I guess...)
All the same, people like Gasly, Ocon, and Albon did seem less arrogant in Drive to Survive. Confident, but not entitled or arrogant. Hamilton isn't one of those either in my eyes for that matter. (I would completely discount anything they're saying in the heat of the moment during the race; no-one competitive will sound like a fun person under kind of that pressure.)
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VW Group will only join a non-production based motorsport series if it can directly help flog more cars, they've never been one for general brand awareness. They need to plaster a current road technology all over it. Le Mans was for a long time about the TDI engine, before that FSI, and more recently hybrids. Now they're all in on EVs.
I'd love to see Audi in F1 and Porsche in LMH but I don't see them joining F1 unless the sports goes much further in the EV direction (I hope it wont).
It has definitely gotten worse, possibly as more and more rich and connected kids are entering the sport. Pay to drive has always been a thing but not like it is now. Back in the 2000s and before most of them were pretty nice.
That's crazy. Doesn't Mercedes also give last year's engine to Stroll's team? It's such a pity in a sport where engine quality is the #1 indicator of success. Given there are only a few engine providers left, it's basically a given that these providers' own top teams can ever be truly competitive.
Aston Martin are a customer of Mercedes, they have the current year power unit in their car. It's expensive to design an engine, hence why the 2026 regulations are getting a lot of interest from VW, Audi, Porsche brands as the cost to entry is much less than before. The only way people will win championships moving forward is having exclusive use of a power unit, whether own brand or a works team.
The maps situation is clear, and I agree that the specs should technically be the same. My point, however, was about production quality of the individual units. Every manufacture produces non uniform quality items, and the way these might differ here would be in longevity. So what I'd guess is Merc bins the best units for themselves, and the lower quality stock goes to the customers. The complexity of the aggregate makes it impossible to detect this externally , unless someone from the factory actually comes forward.
Wonder how many complaints there is going to be to the FIA from Merc and Red Bull about the others car etc
Fully expecting there to be toys thrown out of both prams
Fully expecting there to be toys thrown out of both prams
They're the same, the FIA moved with a technical and sporting directive back in 2018 to mitigate that type of behaviour. In the early days of the hybrid era, there was customer engines that were inferior to the works engines.
Didn't have last year's engine a few years ago? I thought that's what I remembered. Maybe I'm wrong again.
Didn't have last year's engine a few years ago? I thought that's what I remembered. Maybe I'm wrong again.
You're probably thinking of the 'Tracing Point' from last year
I just don't see how this can realistically be enforced.
https://the-race.com/formula-1/fia-issues-points-deduction-warning-ahead-of-f1-title-decider/
Shouldn't need to be said but given the last race it probably needed to be
Shouldn't need to be said but given the last race it probably needed to be
FIA homologation process manages that, scrutineers carry out the checks against that engine specification at every race.
It's not even Friday practice and I'm sick of seeing Christian Horner already. I mean before anyone jokes yes I've been sick of him for years but we haven't even started this race weekend and he's all over the media. How anyone can compare him and Toto is beyond me.
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They are both cnuts.
It’s going to be electric. Can’t wait. Just hope the championship is won on the road with good racing and not drama about he did x and he did y.
At least Toto keeps himself to himself. Horner can't stop himself talking and running to cameras.
Edit- Outside of race weekend that is.
The Pink Mercedes, right? That's why I said 'Stroll's Team', not 'Aston Martin' (Stroll Sr, to be exact). Was that a last-year's Mercedes engine?You're probably thinking of the 'Tracing Point' from last year