F1 2021 Season

[Fluctuation0161]

You misunderstood, that wasn't what the Mercs said, that is the line the FIA are taking

It has never happened like this in F1 history as far as I can tell, and despite claims to the contrary over some misreading the rules, the race director isn't supposed to make rules up on the spot in the name of sports entertainment. He governs the safety of the event, that's where he can step in and take control. In his own words, this wasn't about that, which is why Mercs have a strong case case if it goes to CAS.

Again, not that I think it'll go that far.

Might do...

CAS have the jurisdiction to overturn field of play decisions and sporting results where:

“there is clear evidence that the officials acted in bad faith or with arbitrariness.”

As per CAS 2010/A/2090

 

[pacifictheme]

Fernando Alonso disagrees, as does Cristian Horner.

Red Bull was only faster until Austria, since the Silverstone upgrade Mercedes have been the car to beat. That’s over 50% of the season.

Well if horner and alonso said it, two totally unbiased opinions, it must be true. Good one.

 

[Jippy]

If we take out personal opinions Mercedes won construtors championship so it's clear that they have better car.
Unless u want to go to Toto and tell him that actually according to Redcafe Red Bull had better car through the season and he have to give the trophy to them.

It could just mean they had a second driver who performed slightly less atrociously.

 

[groovyalbert]

So, I still don't understand any of the logic behind yesterday's decision other than "we want drama, so let's make shite up and disregard the first 57 laps of the race"

Honestly - I didn't want Max to win - but can anyone who did please tell me why I'm wrong for thinking yesterday was a complete farce without pointing out past races/personal biases? Just based on yesterday alone.

 

[BrilliantOrange]

So, I still don't understand any of the logic behind yesterday's decision other than "we want drama, so let's make shite up and disregard the first 57 laps of the race"

Honestly - I didn't want Max to win - but can anyone who did please tell me why I'm wrong for thinking yesterday was a complete farce without pointing out past races/personal biases? Just based on yesterday alone.

Is this possible? Genuine question, but isnt the whole punishment/regulatory/intervenience system based on precedent?

 

[pacifictheme]

Is this possible? Genuine question, but isnt the whole punishment/regulatory/intervenience system based on precedent?

Essentially the race director handed max the championship on the last lap and did it via a sub clause in the rules saying he can whatever he wants. Imagine that in football, just wouldn't happen. Previous races aren't really relevant in this instance.

But it's done. I hoped for a clean win for either driver but what we got was a mess. It's not really fair on either of them and mad max fans aside I think most people think the way it was done was very shite and quite bad for the sports integrity.

 

[Jerch]

Again, so you think Newey is wrong?

Simple question you don't seem to be able to answer.

It looks like, doesn't it. But tbf to Newey u have to understand his bias since he designed the car.

It could just mean they had a second driver who performed slightly less atrociously.

But wasn't Bottas absolutely destroyed for his displays through the season while Perez was mostly praised? Infact Bottas is losing his seat in the car for next year because of those displays and Perez got contract extension.

 

[Bubz27]

Yeah, and I also know who deserved to win the title.

The guy with 10 wins, 10 poles, and the guy who was robbed of 70 points by Mercedes and Pirelli in Baku, Silverstone and Hungary.

The fact that Hamilton was better in Abu Dhabi is irrelevant of things because Verstappen was better overall, from March to December.

People on this thread are struggling to comprehend the fact that the season is 22 races long and not one.

If Hamilton had won yesterday, would he have been an undeserving champion?

 

[BrilliantOrange]

Essentially the race director handed max the championship on the last lap and did it via a sub clause in the rules saying he can whatever he wants. Imagine that in football, just wouldn't happen. Previous races aren't really relevant in this instance.

But it's done. I hoped for a clean win for either driver but what we got was a mess. It's not really fair on either of them and mad max fans aside I think most people think the way it was done was very shite and quite bad for the sports integrity.

Fully agree on this, I think everyone does. Max was extremely lucky yesterday and Lewis extremely unlucky, he literally drove an absolute perfect race.

What goes too far for me is the claim that Max doesnt deserve the Championship because of the way things had their course yesterday. The Championship is earned over the course of the year and Max had as much claim to the title as Lewis. Its just very shitty for Max, for Lewis, for the sport in general that the decisive moment is tainted by such controversy..

 

[ForlansHair]

Perhaps, but the point I was making is that the rules categorically influenced strategy. If Merc knew it would pan out like this, there is no way they take this route vs the potential risk of pitting and track position behind Max but on fresher tyres. Surely?

But the problem is no one had any idea how long Latifi would take to move. At the moment he did Mercedes knew there was a chance you would end up with 1 lap of racing, they just didn’t know it would be contrived like it was. Lewis swore down the radio like never before the moment SC was deployed as he knew they couldn’t pit and he was screwed on any sort of restart.

Ironically despite Red Bulls’ recent whinging they seemed to be quicker on the straights and Max would’ve had a better chance at keeping Lewis behind than vice versa. Perez managed it on completely shot softs for a lap. Max’s hards would’ve been less than 20 laps old once you include a few laps of VSC and SC running, all done when the car is at its lightest too. Lewis’ were over 40. I still don’t think Mercedes would pit if they were faced with the same scenario again

 

[Dargonk]

No surprise that Mercedes have appealed that decision. Even looking at that full Clause 15.3, the overriding sentence appears to be in relation to the race director working in consultation with the clerk. With the Race director overriding the Clerk. It doesn't give any power that I can see which gives the race director any ability to modify the other rules. The whole situation is a mess, that should have been avoided. I'd imagine this will end up with CAS.

Though even then I don't see a change in champion, however can see Masi getting removed and a lot of behind the scenes money/influence being given to Mercedes to let the issue go.

 

[Redlambs]

It looks like, doesn't it. But tbf to Newey u have to understand his bias since he designed the car.

Well if you were to be fair, not that you have been in here of course, you could then see why people have a different opinion. The actual designer has said on balance he thinks they built the better car, but Jerch on Redcafe thinks he's wrong.

Fully agree on this, I think everyone does. Max was extremely lucky yesterday and Lewis extremely unlucky, he literally drove an absolute perfect race.

What goes too far for me is the claim that Max doesnt deserve the Championship because of the way things had their course yesterday. The Championship is earned over the course of the year and Max had as much claim to the title as Lewis. Its just very shitty for Max, for Lewis, for the sport in general that the decisive moment is tainted by such controversy..

Who's claiming that? Some of you keep repeating people in here are claiming Max doesn't deserve it, but I can't remember seeing anyone actually arguing that. Might be wrong though, as I've not really read some of the more ranting posts.

 

[Redlambs]

Is this possible? Genuine question, but isnt the whole punishment/regulatory/intervenience system based on precedent?

But what precedent is there here?

None. It's never happened before. The bigger problem is it now sets a precedent that further pushes the F1 away from being a sport.

 

[Adam-Utd]

But wasn't Bottas absolutely destroyed for his displays through the season while Perez was mostly praised? Infact Bottas is losing his seat in the car for next year because of those displays and Perez got contract extension.

if Red Bull didn't use Perez as their own personal Hamilton blocker all season, he'd have had a lot more points.

completely compromised his race today, then when he's on for a 3rd place they make him RETIRE his car for no reason other than to get out the way

they've done this many times this season, no wonder he's hardly got any points.

 

[pacifictheme]

Fully agree on this, I think everyone does. Max was extremely lucky yesterday and Lewis extremely unlucky, he literally drove an absolute perfect race.

What goes too far for me is the claim that Max doesnt deserve the Championship because of the way things had their course yesterday. The Championship is earned over the course of the year and Max had as much claim to the title as Lewis. Its just very shitty for Max, for Lewis, for the sport in general that the decisive moment is tainted by such controversy..

Yeah completely agree. Both have been brilliant all year. Very frustrating ending.

 

[BrilliantOrange]

Well if you were to be fair, not that you have been in here of course, you could then see why people have a different opinion. The actual designer has said on balance he thinks they built the better car, but Jerch on Redcafe thinks he's wrong.




Who's claiming that? Some of you keep repeating people in here are claiming Max doesn't deserve it, but I can't remember seeing anyone actually arguing that. Might be wrong though, as I've not really read some of the more ranting posts.

Ive read it on here a couple times and also on other media, but Im also sure a lot of people dont necessarily argue that..

 

[Redlambs]

No surprise that Mercedes have appealed that decision. Even looking at that full Clause 15.3, the overriding sentence appears to be in relation to the race director working in consultation with the clerk. With the Race director overriding the Clerk. It doesn't give any power that I can see which gives the race director any ability to modify the other rules. The whole situation is a mess, that should have been avoided. I'd imagine this will end up with CAS.

Though even then I don't see a change in champion, however can see Masi getting removed and a lot of behind the scenes money/influence being given to Mercedes to let the issue go.

Yep, this us what I've been saying. I don't it even gets to CAS. It'll all go away, the Max fanboys will claim it was right all along and then moan next season when the Mercs get even more unusual decisions than ever

 

[BrilliantOrange]

But what precedent is there here?

None. It's never happened before. The bigger problem is it now sets a precedent that further pushes the F1 away from being a sport.

Fair point haha, given the circumstances their is little exact precendence..

 

[Redlambs]

Ive read it on here a couple times and also on other media, but Im also sure a lot of people dont necessarily argue that..

I'll take your word for it I guess, unless you can point to any posts?

I've seen people say Max SHOULDN'T have won, which of course is a fair opinion to hold, but no one outright claim he doesn't deserve the championship as a whole. Though it wouldn't surprise me mate, you know what this thread is like

 

[Redlambs]

Fair point haha, given the circumstances their is little exact precendence..

Outside of the title and who won, it is a shocker for F1 as a whole. It's a shambolic end to a shambolic season, right when they were beginning to gain traction again. The FIA are a joke and they are holding motorsports back.

But I guess they want a race to the bottom. Get more fanboys arguing on the net, more TV viewers (although they desperately need that anyway) and they can line their pockets. It has always been a money driven and corrupt "sport', but this new low actually serves those in charge I guess.

It's such a shame too, as both Max and Lewis have once again been outstanding. Both worthy champions as they are so far ahead of the rest of the pack on pure talent. Both massive pricks of course, but you can't take away the talent.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Fully agree on this, I think everyone does. Max was extremely lucky yesterday and Lewis extremely unlucky, he literally drove an absolute perfect race.

What goes too far for me is the claim that Max doesnt deserve the Championship because of the way things had their course yesterday. The Championship is earned over the course of the year and Max had as much claim to the title as Lewis. Its just very shitty for Max, for Lewis, for the sport in general that the decisive moment is tainted by such controversy..

Nobody is saying Max wouldn't be a worthy winner if he got in the lead and won like a normal race, you'd say congratulations.

Lets be completely honest the way he won it is a farce. He had all but given up, and suddenly he ends up with brand new soft tyres against a guy with 40 lap hard tyres you really couldn't make it up.

Anyway, that isn't max's fault either - it's more the FIA being a complete shitshow (Masi in particular)

If they really wanted a showpiece showdown then red flag the damn race with 4/5 laps to go and let them fight it out fairly.

 

[Camilo]

Bit of a nonsense how this all ended. Clearly Hamilton was robbed yesterday - it's meant to be a sport, but the "rules" are so vague that they can just be interpreted any which way you want. It's massively open to corruption or (far more likely) incompetence.

All drivers have good and bad luck throughout a season, but this race had nothing to do with luck - a man in a room engineered a one-sided "final lap showdown". It doesn't sit right at all. You have a great season spoiled by some plonkers who think they've got the right to create artificial excitement.

If Lewis or Max wins the final race by 50 seconds and it's ultimately a letdown for the viewer then so be it - that's sport. We've all suffered through 0-0 finals - they're shite - it's fine.

 

[groovyalbert]

Is this possible? Genuine question, but isnt the whole punishment/regulatory/intervenience system based on precedent?

Yeah, I guess that's what I'm saying in a roundabout way. Where was the precedent or justification in having the race finish that way yesterday? And knowing I have my biases, can someone who either supports Max or is unbiased justify how Max was allowed to be in the position he was to win?

The fact it is seemingly utterly without precedent/full of inconsistencies makes me think it was totally made up to get a grandstand finish which disregarded the entire race up until that point.

 

[ArjenIsM3]

if Red Bull didn't use Perez as their own personal Hamilton blocker all season, he'd have had a lot more points.

completely compromised his race today, then when he's on for a 3rd place they make him RETIRE his car for no reason other than to get out the way

they've done this many times this season, no wonder he's hardly got any points.

Erm, no, his engine was close to failing. He said so himself. He wasn't in the way at all since he was behind Max, and if all lapped cars would have gone he could have even stopped the likes of Sainz from attacking Max. Perez has had a mixed bag of a season. Yes, they used him to block Mercedes just like Mercedes have done with Bottas at times. Though Bottas isn't that good at it. That's just the nature of being the second driver I'm afraid. But there have also been many races where he was simply off the pace and ultimately that's what cost them the constructors' (along with the DNFs) not them using him to block Hamilton.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

 

[Dan_F]

Yeah, and I also know who deserved to win the title.

The guy with 10 wins, 10 poles, and the guy who was robbed of 70 points by Mercedes and Pirelli in Baku, Silverstone and Hungary.

The fact that Hamilton was better in Abu Dhabi is irrelevant of things because Verstappen was better overall, from March to December.

People on this thread are struggling to comprehend the fact that the season is 22 races long and not one.

The only thing I’d add to this is that through a season racing incidents happen. Max had more bad luck in the incidents, a tyre blow out and then the Bottas crash. Silverstone and Monza are incidents that both could have been avoided quite frankly, and Max would have eased to the title if he hadn’t been so stubborn. We saw that with how Hamilton handled him charging up the inside multiple times.

Personally I feel there’s a difference between racing incidents and bullshit from the FIA. Spa was more of a joke than any incident we saw on the track and then obviously we had yesterday. They are massive moments handled poorly by the FIA benefiting Max, so it’s really off putting to see him moan about decisions before yesterdays race.

 

[christinaa]

Exactly the opposite, it has gained a lot of new fans. Not in Britain of course.

Must be the only one saying so.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

I really think that Mercedes will have a good case if they want to go through with this but I just think that in the long run as a business it’s harmful to ruin the image of f1. So tough decision for them in terms of this title vs the long term

 

[Jippy]

It looks like, doesn't it. But tbf to Newey u have to understand his bias since he designed the car.

But wasn't Bottas absolutely destroyed for his displays through the season while Perez was mostly praised? Infact Bottas is losing his seat in the car for next year because of those displays and Perez got contract extension.

Bottas outscored Perez by 36 points.

Text speak isn't allowed as an aside.

 

[altodevil]

 

[christinaa]

Everybody not following Lewis disagree's with this.

It's Damon 94 all over again

Salty english fans and everybody else lapping it up

We've been called fanboys and now salty.
Say something a bit more intelligent.

 

[Mickeza]

I really think that Mercedes will have a good case if they want to go through with this but I just think that in the long run as a business it’s harmful to ruin the image of f1. So tough decision for them in terms of this title vs the long term

It’s an absolute slam dunk of a case. I suspect Mercedes will be offered something and it will all go away though.

 

[vangagal]

Masi needs to feck off. End off.
This is even worse than all of "Ferrari International Assistance" jibe back then.
Or at least he should be frank about his allegiance like Balestre with Prost.
His ruling this year has been abysmal.

 

[Piratesoup]

Yesterday I watched a GP for the first time in 5 years and was entertained by the F1 for the first time in 20 years. More please.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

what agenda did he have?

To make F1 great again.

 

[Buster15]

Having had a night to sleep on it, I have to say that I am just as annoyed today as yesterday.
The rediculous decision by the race director and the stewards to only let those cars between Hamilton and Verstappen go past the safety car was and still is a complete collusion.
As was the rejection of Mercedes appeal.
Well done to Max.
And thank you Lewis for your incredible sportsmanship in the face of what must have been utter dejection.
They are the only winners.
The losers are the FIA who should be feeling utterly ashamed of themselves.

But that is it. The decision won't change and true F1 fans will understand what has happened.
Lewis Hamilton was effectively robbed in order for the FIA agenda to be played out.

 

[mitChley]

THATS DANGEROUS DRIVING!!!!!

 

[Lentwood]

The two things that are most sad about what happened yesterday...

1) F1 has begun to slowly gain popularity all season, mainly thanks to the epic duel and hard racing between Max and Lewis. Yes, there have been controversial moments, as with any sport, but overall, they have been dealt with within the rules and good/bad luck has largely evened out over the course of the season. I know loads of people who tuned in for the race for the first time yesterday, excited to see who would come out on top after such a tight battle. Straight after the race, the general feeling amongst these potential new F1 fans was that the sport was a waste of time due to the farce that occurred in the last few laps. There's excitement and drama in sport that can have you out of your seat dancing or sick to your stomach, and at times in can be controversial, but there's no excitement and no drama when the race is manufactured like that in the stewards room, that has the total opposite effect.

2) Micheal Masi would have manufactured that situation knowing full well that Lewis was an absolute sitting duck and that the decisions he made, ignoring the rules and all previous precedents, would hand Max the title. As soon as Horner said "we just need one racing lap" and Masi changed his mind about the unlapped cars, he knew that in doing so, he would hand the title to Max. That for me is absolutely unforgivable. It's not like Masi was backed into a corner and had no choice. He could have let all cars unlap themselves or he could have left Max behind the lapped cars, he could have red flagged the race (giving both chance to change their tyres) and put Hamilton and Max P1 and P2. Had any of those things happened, yes it would still have been controversial, but sporting integrity would have been maintained. I am sorry but whomever you support, there is no sporting integrity in what happened yesterday. Michael Masi effectively threw that and the other 20+ races out of the window for a bit of cheap, contrived drama. This what the spot is now? Some WWE farce to be sold on Netflix PPV?

 

[Adam-Utd]

Erm, no, his engine was close to failing. He said so himself. He wasn't in the way at all since he was behind Max, and if all lapped cars would have gone he could have even stopped the likes of Sainz from attacking Max. Perez has had a mixed bag of a season. Yes, they used him to block Mercedes just like Mercedes have done with Bottas at times. Though Bottas isn't that good at it. That's just the nature of being the second driver I'm afraid. But there have also been many races where he was simply off the pace and ultimately that's what cost them the constructors' (along with the DNFs) not them using him to block Hamilton.

Of course he was told to say that

There was no mention of any engine problems until the safety car. He was absolutely fine until they announced the race was about to restart and suddenly he had to have an emergency retire the car?

Obviously there is always a very slim chance of it happening, but some coincidences are just a little too strong.

 

[Jerch]

Well if you were to be fair, not that you have been in here of course, you could then see why people have a different opinion. The actual designer has said on balance he thinks they built the better car, but Jerch on Redcafe thinks he's wrong.

Well u are wrong here. I am stating that constructor standings say so not me.

if Red Bull didn't use Perez as their own personal Hamilton blocker all season, he'd have had a lot more points.

completely compromised his race today, then when he's on for a 3rd place they make him RETIRE his car for no reason other than to get out the way

they've done this many times this season, no wonder he's hardly got any points.

1. Merc also tried to use Bottas on many races this season. It just turned out that Max had a lot less trouble passing him than Hamilton has troubles passing Perez.
2. Perez was used in that way this race and from my head I think 1 or 2 more but don't remember races. But not on more occasions Bottas was used. For example Bottas was used just a race before slowing down and breaking rules under safety car while Lewis went in the box.
3. Perez didn't compromised his race yesterday by blocking Hamilton. He was behind Lewis and Max and was behind those 2 after the stops so he didn't lost any places.
4. Perez wasn't in the way of Max but if anything could be buffer between Max and next driver if all laped cars would be let by because he was third.

But congrats on so factually wrong post, incredible performance.