F1 2021 Season
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
If the Mercedes is so superior to the Red Bull, why is Bottas struggling away in midfield, taking multiple laps to get past Alpha Tauri's and Ferrari's?
The fact is, Mercedes had a shocking start to the season and Lewis did amazingly well to hang on to Max's coattails. As soon as Mercedes sorted out the huge deficiencies in their car and created more of a level playing field, Lewis won five* on the spin
Max is capable of insanely fast laps, but he makes more mistakes. I could name four big mistakes in the last two weeks alone that have contributed to his struggles. Lewis is an absolute machine who very rarely makes a mistake and pumps out relentlessly quick laps.
That isn’t true. Mercedes won 3 of the first 4 races and the one they didn’t was a wet race in which Hamilton crashed. The Mercedes was quicker in the opening races.
On mistakes, the above crash didn’t cost him anything due to the red flag. He would’ve been lucky to finish 5th without it. Baku was the biggest driving error of the season. I don’t recall Max making mistakes like that in races.
If you want to judge the relative performance of the cars by what the second drivers are doing, then you’ll end up with the conclusion that Mercedes were better.
I mean, Bottas beat Perez in the standings, and Mercedes won the constructors.
Yet he lost?
Its easy to "pump out relentlessly quick laps" when you have the fastest car. Usually when drivers make big mistakes its because they are pushing hard to make up the deficit in performance they dont have over their competition.
The only downside to drive to survive is that its created a new brand of F1 fan that has no fecking idea about motorsport and how to actually race. Things like block passes (what Max did on lap 1) are the absolute norm and the fact that when unpunished was a joke in itself. I do wonder if Brundle looks at modern F1 and thinks wtf when it comes to the shit that gets penalized compared to 20 years ago.
I fully agree with this. The 180 they did on the ruling on the lapped cars made such little sense, especially when seeing that all the odds were stacked in one drivers favour. If they wanted a true racing lap then it should have been a red flag, allow Lewis to change tyres also, and then start from the grid for a full showdown. If anything that would have created a bigger spectacle, but would have eliminated much of this bad blood.
I think Merc should have enough to have their challenge upheld, but whether they will overturn the title I am not so sure. Would Lewis want the title a few months later? Would it feel a bit hollow once the dust settles? I am of the opinion that yesterdays handling of the race was poor but I am not sure this can be overturned fully.
Well there you go, the closeness of the Constructors should tell you the cars were pretty evenly matched. The fact is, we can argue about who had the faster car or who deserved what...but yesterday Lewis and Mercedes outperformed Max and Red Bull and would have taken the title without an artificial intervention from Masi.
I don't especially care by the way, I am not (or wasn't) some huge Mercedes and Lewis fan...I probably will be next season now though after the disgraceful way that played out yesterday. It just feels like a huge injustice. Imagine yourself being in that situation, how would you feel?
Nobody said anything about the block pass. The block pass was fine. Lewis should have given the place back as Max didn't leave the track. However, then we can get arguing about what happened in Brazil and so on and so forth. These decisions are 'controversial' but they are an interpretation of the rules. What happened in the final few laps yesterday was artificial nonsense created for the Netflix fans you deride, and yet you seem to think that's fine because you are letting your personal preference for a driver cloud your judgement
I thought wums weren't allowed.
Looks like Netflix's The Real Housewives of F1, or whatever it's called, is the big winner from yesterday - think of the ratings gold.
Adrian Newey (you know the geezer that designs the car) literally said after the race that the Red Bull was the better car over the course of the season.
Perez was absolutely slated in the middle part of the season for being shite. He got an extension because Red Bull realised that giving him that security would help his performances (this was said by Horner and Marko). Perez has probably helped Max a lot more than Bottas has helped Hamilton but I wouldn't say he's performed better. Perez was genuinely woeful for a big portion of the season.
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Not to mention quoting Horner and Alonso, Alonso in particular probably has posters of Max on his bedroom wall.
Appreciate that.
Not really sure how people are saying Merc had the faster car through the course of the season.
The only time I saw them with an advantage was these last 4 races after they put a fresh unit in. Even in the first 4 races, Portugal was the only one he won comfortably, Bahrain Max should've won, and Portugal, they had a superior strategy that enabled Lewis to chase down Max. Red Bull then proceeded to win 5 in a row fairly easily while Merc struggled.
Take out the first and last 4 races, Lewis wins 2 of 14, Silverstone (Max DNF) and Russia (Max started from the back of the grid).
The only time I saw them with an advantage was these last 4 races after they put a fresh unit in. Even in the first 4 races, Portugal was the only one he won comfortably, Bahrain Max should've won, and Portugal, they had a superior strategy that enabled Lewis to chase down Max. Red Bull then proceeded to win 5 in a row fairly easily while Merc struggled.
Take out the first and last 4 races, Lewis wins 2 of 14, Silverstone (Max DNF) and Russia (Max started from the back of the grid).
Yeah I'm the same. I was really looking forward to next season and this new era of the sport but I'm seriously questioning the integrity of it now. I fear we're going to see more of this manipulated drama in the future. It was so obvious what happened yesterday and it only hurts the sport.
Times are saying Mercedes are going to withdraw the appeal. Putting the sport (and/or whatever deal they’ve got) first.
Very odd that withdrawing the appeal is the action that puts the sport first.
Hopefully that means the FIA have told them Masi is gone.
That's the only real thing the could have expected out of an appeal no? I doubt even CAS would have overturned the result, at most would have made the race null and void meaning Max is champion anyway.
That's the only real thing the could have expected out of an appeal no? I doubt even CAS would have overturned the result, at most would have made the race null and void meaning Max is champion anyway.
Times are saying they're considering it, right?
Passes like that haven't been allowed for a long time. You can't stop somebody else making the corner, and yet again that exactly what Max did.
Max dived from too far back, blocked hamilton turning into the corner and left him with nowhere else to go apart from across the run off. The officials got that one completely right.
Now if Max was a bit closer, dived up the inside and was alongside Hamilton before he tried to turn the car, you'd say that was a great move. (just like his overtake on the last lap) Very fine margins, but you can't use your car to force somebody to avoid contact.
If Hamilton continued to turn into the corner they collide.
You can't just say Mercedes were slower in all the other 14 though. Lewis should have won in Hungary, should have won at Monza, France was effectively the reverse of Spain, Belgium should never have been a race, Bottas won in Turkey, Bottas was very close in Monaco etc. You could go on and I am sure do the same for Max in the other races.
The number of pole positions for Mercedes and Red Bull shows just how even it was throughout the season. Yes, quali isn't always the best representation but the fact one rarely out-qualified the other by over half a second (I haven't checked to see if it actually happened all season), which was pretty standard for Mercedes prior to this season, shows how even they were over the whole season.
Just to clarify putting the sport first is the reason the article gives. I think they should burn it all down
Let's face it, yesterday was not Maxs fault. But his consistent dangerous driving and moreover his brake checking should've got him a points or grid penalty.
The reason he didn't get a penalty is because, as we now see obviously, the race director wants only entertainment and no integrity.
Is Max a great driver, yes.
Was he the better driver this season, no.
Was he handed the title by the FIA, yes.
If Masi keeps his job it's a total farce. So out of his league. He sounds like a nervous school boy on the radio.
They're definitely not putting the sport first. You have one of the best sports lawyers in the world attending, if anything he told them the rules aren't in their favour or at least vague enough that they're not winning an appeal so they're better off spinning it this way.
Because it isn't.
No it seems like they are withdrawing the appeal of the result, but they will still take the FIA to court regarding not following the protocols or they've struck a deal behind closed doors. I.e. let the WDC remain as they don't want to damage the sport and also if Hamilton was retrospectively given the title then what would it would look shit, but privately or publicly get confirmation of the FIA's feck up. I could see Masi resigning.
But yeah you're right, if they wanted to put the sport first then they should follow through with the appeal.
Then he switched and sounded like he was on an ego trip with that last lap radio call with Toto.
Oh come on. He literally finished 1st or 2nd in every race he finished this season apart from Hungary where Bottas and Norris crashed into him. Had some bad luck along the way as well (Silverstone, Baku).
I would've much, much preferred Hamilton and yesterday felt like daylight robbery for him. But no, the title is not undeserved for Verstappen even if it came with a bad taste in your mouth.
He was given it by the FIA. How undeserved does it get? He deserved to be in the title race and that's about it. That's where driving great 80% and like a thug 20% of the time gets you. Mind if the FIA had applied proper punishment for weaving, brake checking, pushing competitors off, winning races after 2 laps behind the safety car and being a insufferable little prick he wouldn't have been anywhere near Hamilton.
Fecking farcical to do Spa and then claim you didn't want to end the race under a safety car. It's hilarious some don't see it for what it is.
Think I expected this from Mercedes, going to CAS drags f1 through the mud and in the long run that hurts them. They know that fans will generally remember what happened and apart from the Max fanboys most would be able to see that they were wronged.
Nervous people who are entirely out of their comfort zone do that. I wonder if others, for example, leaders within FIA, have his ear during the race and gave him a nudge to move cars.
Yawn, and you give people in this thread shit for being new to the sport when you come out with comments like that.
Again, Lewis had the exact same opportunity to pit as max and chose not to.
Again, Lewis had the exact same opportunity to pit as max and chose not to.
Only he didn't.
Is Max a great driver, yes. Yes I agree and this will be the first on his WC wins
Was he the better driver this season, no. 50/50 for me, the argument is he should have won before the last race
Was he handed the title by the FIA, yes. 100% Yes
Yes he did, but if he had done, he would have lost track position to Max.
Again, Lewis had the exact same opportunity to pit as max and chose not to.
I feel a little sorry for Max I have to admit. The entire world, fans and non-fans, tuned in to witness Masi fix the race live on TV and he didn't deserve that shenanigans for his great season.
Lewis Hamilton hinted at foul play on the part of race control in the heat of the moment during Sunday's dramatic Abu Dhabi Grand Prix.
After being overhauled by Max Verstappen on the final lap of the title deciding event and realizing that all was lost, Hamilton buzzed his faithful Mercedes race engineer Peter Bonnington.
The Briton's words to Bono were unequivocal: "The race has been manipulated, man!"
Bono had kept his driver informed of the ongoing process during the safety car period that had been triggered by Nichola Latifi just five laps from the chequered.
Hamilton was initially informed that the train of five lapped cars positioned directly behind him and ahead of Verstappen would not be allowed to overtake.
https://f1i.com/news/428693-hamilto...leL7U-aSOTmNDtxU0NBO45eFFxh_H16Nj1_G7EVQaP7OM
After being overhauled by Max Verstappen on the final lap of the title deciding event and realizing that all was lost, Hamilton buzzed his faithful Mercedes race engineer Peter Bonnington.
The Briton's words to Bono were unequivocal: "The race has been manipulated, man!"
Bono had kept his driver informed of the ongoing process during the safety car period that had been triggered by Nichola Latifi just five laps from the chequered.
Hamilton was initially informed that the train of five lapped cars positioned directly behind him and ahead of Verstappen would not be allowed to overtake.
https://f1i.com/news/428693-hamilto...leL7U-aSOTmNDtxU0NBO45eFFxh_H16Nj1_G7EVQaP7OM
You are clearly on a wum since you know the sport and the ramifications if Lewis had pitted. We get that you are still upset after what happened to Massa. I feel badly for Massa and his dad etc. That was an awful way to lose, although that was done without FIA injecting themselves into the outcome.
Again, Lewis had the exact same opportunity to pit as max and chose not to.