Oh sorry about that thenerrr no I was correct in the first place
F1 2021 Season
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Which is the real thing Merc's lawyer will be doing right now. His case he builds isn't for Cas, it's for the FIA so they can squeeze as much out of them in compensation.
The FIA will have to pay, in both monetary and likely other ways for Merc to "do what's best for the sport" and keep this away from a big and very public arbitration.
Sad thing is, the best thing for the future of F1 and fairness would actually be CAS stepping in a slapping them silly. But then the FIA, and it seems a lot of fans (at least the fairweather Netflix ones) would rather it go more into the sports entertainment business. Hey ho.
Yeah, I am sure Latifi is on it too the bastard. Wonder how deep it goes.
Are the fanboys really wheeling out Di Resta?
That's barrel scraping if there ever was
That's barrel scraping if there ever was
Who knows. It might be Nelson Piquet Jr in 2008 all over again. There's precedent for underhanded tactics in this sport. Won't know until it is investigated.
I don't understand whats happening here. I don't know what angle the Max fans are coming from. Your guy won. He did nothing wrong.
But the way he won tarnished his win (not through his fault) and the rules were broken. Whats the argument here?
But the way he won tarnished his win (not through his fault) and the rules were broken. Whats the argument here?
I'm struggling to see how can Latifi did that on purpose. It was an accident. Shit happens. The way they proceed with it though, that was bonkers.
They aren't content. They seem to want him to have been the plucky underdog in a shite car getting the ultimate win through grit and ability.
It melts their tiny little minds that the biggest cheat up in sports entertainment since the Montreal screwjob (one for the wwe fans there
) handed Max the belt.He was definitely playing the long game on this one, he's been practicing crashing at the exact same sport for 4 years
He was definitely playing the long game on this one, he's been practicing crashing at the exact same sport for 4 years
No wayTo be fair I'm just happy that a driver who was in Mercedes powered car crashed and not for example one if Alpha Tauri's. Imagine the outrage.
Mercedes fans would probably say that Mercedes and Lewis should leave FIA competitions all together and focus on cycling because it will improve Lewis's image as cycling is the greenest way of transportation.
I think that is a little far fetched.
To be honest I'm really only in this thread to get potential updates on Michael Masi.
If I'm to continue watching next year and believe in it, I need to know he is absolutely gone and disgraced.
If I'm to continue watching next year and believe in it, I need to know he is absolutely gone and disgraced.
Not at all. These people are very organized.
Send the spooks to turn the Latifi household upside do down, I am sure they'll find the connection to Masi.
This thread is a bigger car crash than Latifi.
Meh. F1 is as dirty as it comes anyway. I'll only bother watching any races if someone new comes in and challenges.
To be quite honest, there are some Max fans on here who are arguing it only because they don’t want there to be a mark against his win. That’s why you get arguments constantly from them about “RB also had decisions against them throughout the season” or “Max clearly had the slower car” or “win some lose some” or “FIA have favoured Mercedes with rule changes for years” or x y and z.
I wanted Hamilton to win, but if I’m trying to be as objective as I can, I would draw the key points that:
- Max has been very good throughout the year. Just because Masi stitched everyone up in the last race doesn’t mean his work over the season should be completely ignored. He is deserving on balance because he was right up there with Hamilton all year.
- Unfortunately that doesn’t change the fact that if the rules had been applied, or that he didn’t receive a significant amount of luck with the safety car happening in the first place, he would not be world champion.
- The key issue here is sporting integrity. New precedents were set outside of normal practice and potentially outside the rule book to create a last lap spectacle. This isn’t right. You don’t reset goals in a CL final if one team is winning it “bigly” just to create drama.
- Linking to the above, it’s fundamentally a flawed decision what he did. Forget Hamilton vs Max, why does Sainz for example not get a shot at 2nd or even 1st by being stuck behind lapped cars, but the same hinderance isn’t applied to Max who gets a free run? It’s inconsistency not only with rules and past precedent, but inconsistent treatment to different racers in the same race. I really feel this is significant because it completely against fair competition, which must be the overriding principal of sport. Every driver should have an equal chance to win a race, regardless of where they are in the standings or how much money their team has or how good their car is. That principal was fundamentally lost yesterday.
- If the safety car rules were followed properly, and that last lap existed in the rules, then yeah I’d be annoyed at the bad luck but that’s what it would be. Just bad luck. Legal (and perhaps rules should be considered if it’s really fair), and bad luck. I think then the complaint would be about the rules in the first place which sees leads wiped out by safety cars (whichever race, whichever cars impacted) than a breach of them. But you could only complain about that. Not the integrity of the result.
- If roles had reversed and Hamilton had won the title like this, of course I’d be happy but I wouldn’t (I think, like some fans on here) be in denial about what happened. That luck gave my man the title. And not just luck, unfair sports. Illegal sports. I’d accept that, and frankly whilst being happy I’d still be annoyed that the title was won that way and still have serious questions about the FIA.
- Masi needs to be removed. I can accept mistakes (and all fans on all sides have had to accept mistakes all year). But only to a limit. There has simply been far too many this year. Questionable decisions in Jeddah on penalties. Poor communication in Jeddah leading to the confusion and the brake test. Questionable decision yesterday when Hamilton kept the lead running wide. That’s just in the last 3 races. So that’s not acceptable. What’s also not acceptable at all, is rewriting rules and setting new precedent for entertainment.
He was definitely playing the long game on this one, he's been practicing crashing at the exact same sport for 4 years
They contacted him based on this history, so it would look natural.
we’re at a dangerous point here. i think we all need to take a step back and breathe. at the end of the day masi is a human being. a human being with feelings. a human being with emotions. a human being that can make mistakes. a human being with a family that his job likely supports. a human being with a family of equally spineless, worm like creatures that would leave their grandmother outside in the snow for christmas just to have something exciting to talk about over the festive period other than their utter contempt for each other. we’re in need of some perspective.
Why’s it the grandmother who brings bad chat to the partay?He's currently test driver for Mclaren and used to race for Mercedes in DTM. I don't think he has any red bull allegiance but he certainly seems to be a bit on the "lets make a show of it" side.On a different note, Paul Di Resta has many reasons, which we all know, to be anti Hamilton.
But to be so blinkered on this obvious hoax makes me wonder if he is also in bed with Red Bull.
Is he a test driver for anyone?
they tend to be the sexiest relative.
It is, but it’s usually fair. Fair doesn’t mean everyone gets the same amount of luck. But fair in how the rules are applied. Things like rules to nerf dominating cars, getting shafted by safety cars, red flags, or team orders - all lead to good luck and morally skeptical considerations but never unfair. If they change the regs, all teams have to still abide by them. If there is a safety car then one guy gets shafted this week but it could be the other next. This really was a new low yesterday. Manipulating the rules for drama is wholly unacceptable.
I'm not saying what happened was right or fair. I'm saying the rulebook is probably vague enough for Masi to get away with what he did. Don't believe for a second Mercedes would let this go "for the sake of F1". That's a load of crap.
Then you don't understand any of the implications, or are very gullible. It's as simple as that.
See I always thought that was stupid. Great cars are just as memorable as great drivers in F1.
Rules that nerfed cars/engineering brilliance are always stupid in my opinion.
Saint Masi?
Surely the decision going to court of some description would look that horrific for the sport it won't happen.
If they overturned it now it would probably be more farcical than what actually happened.
If they overturned it now it would probably be more farcical than what actually happened.
mercedes are the bad guys. red bull are the good guys. there can be no other narrative. no other outcome.
I agree, I'm not sure letting a sport get away with what happened yesterday is "for the good of the sport". There's a saying "light is the best disinfectant". If this gets swept under the carpet, everyone moves on, Masi is back next year and nothing really changes how can that be good for the sport. Either the FIA have to sort this out or someone has to force them to sort it out.
Imagine if Calciopoli had been discussed behind closed doors, swept away, all the clubs involved given a fine and everything carried on as before. That would have been the opposite of "good for the sport". Now to be clear, I'm not saying Masi was corrupt, i'm saying he was incompetant. The resultant action has to be the same though: clean it up.
I don't think it'll happen, but how so? If it's overturned it would have to be on the basis that the race wasn't held to the regulations F1 gives itself... Hence correcting a made mistake.
If it does go to CAS I think that's the most likely outcome too. Max would keep his title but that race would be voided. However I think Mercedes has more to gain from wringing out concessions for not taking it there.
Well it's to keep the competition fair I guess.
If F1 didn't change the rules on the floor this year Mercedes would have won again with ease.
The fact Mercedes took it down to the last race show just how good they are as a team/manufacturer. Compare them to Aston Martin who were pathetic all season, it's a night and day difference.
You can say the rule change worked.
It’s actually extremely clear (ironically so given the murkiness of F1 rules generally). There’s no doubt whatsoever that Masi got it wrong (ignore the attempt to justify it last night by FIA - any sane reading of the rules makes clear that 48.12 should have been followed and wasn’t).
The real question is what it now means. That’s where Mercedes have difficulty I think. A logical answer would be that positions should be set back to where they were because that’s the outcome which would have occurred had he followed the rules. However, the general consensus on what I’ve seen seems to be that wouldn’t be possible and the best outcome might be that the race is declared null and void - so Max is still champion. If so, any appeal would be rendered somewhat pointless.
I just can't think of any parallel circumstance in other sports. I don't see how it doesn't just get written off as a mistake in the heat of the moment, even if it was dodgy as hell.
The bolded would be pointless though from Cas.
It's hard not to think it would be tarnished if Lewis wins it in court.
I feel like there will be some arrangement/compromise made. If this goes to CAS then the published regs, the previous statements by Masi, the scope that CAS has all contribute to a massive risk for the FIA. That's a risk they probably won't want to take.
However, I'm not sure what the compromise could be. Voiding the race would be harsh on Sainz and the rest who scored points. Probably the cleanest legal approach is voiding from the infraction on so take the classification on lap 57 (which has some precedent btw). Given that the final lap shouldn't have happened no-one can really complain they lost any gains they made on the final lap. You could throw money at Mercedes, but do Mercedes really need whatever the FIA could give them? Not sure, its messy as hell.
It would make a statement that the FIA can't just make up rules on the fly. And to be honest, if this stands without any further repercussions and F1's new owners continue to "maximize entertainment" I fail to see how F1 doesn't become a joke.
I wonder if they could argue to null and void the laps during and after the lapped cars were allowed to pass. Race ends on what? Lap 55/56? But yeah it's going to be really hard case.
But whoever is the champ really pales in comparison to Masi's future in the sport. The CAS or FIA need to be seen to be strong with him. They cannot back him blindly. I think they can say that a 'deliberate misinterpretation' of the regulations is not, and should not, be in the spirit of the sport
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Erm, not really.
If Merc truly care about the sport and if it truly is as clear cut as most on here are saying then how is letting Masi get away with it good for F1? I agree he's incompetent. He's proven that time and time again and he should go. I mean, it would suck for Max, he didn't do anything wrong and had an amazing season (statistically the best driver I believe), and it would be cruel being crowned champion and letting him celebrate it only to then have it taken away in court weeks/months later for something he had no control over, but in the long run it would probably be better for the sport.