SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[CanadianUtd]

Know of plenty more that have had 2 and no longer have any desire to keep going for top up's thats for sure.

Likewise.

The blinded, willful, pro-vax pushing advocates do not see that their stance means infinite “involuntary”-mandatory boosters for rest of life. Because that’s quite exactly where this leads to and is leading to.

…..yes smallpox and chicken pox and such were eradicated with the use of vaccines. But do not compare them to these “vaccines”. These very ones don’t eradicate said disease/virus by any measure of the traditional definition. In fact, they actually changed the definition of vaccination as a result of said current vaccines. It’s almost misinformation to have labelled them as such. They’re much more in line of a flu-shot. And the (idiotic) people shouting down “get vaccinated so it’ll eradicate the virus as it was done to smallpox etc” — I guess what they really mean is like how they’ve eradicated the flu in the past.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Had a really bad reaction to 2nd Pfizer- big fever, 10 days of sore swollen lymphnodes - booster has been way better. Just 3 days of soreness and no big fever spike.

No idea what that means with regards to protection mind.

I would venture to say that means your body is very clued in on what the virus is and this means you are at a much lower risk of negative outcomes if you happen to become infected.

 

[CanadianUtd]

I know several and fully support them! Every individual has different circumstances and should tailor their decision accordingly.

I fully agree with your opinion! Glad to know there’s folks that still have a bit of humanity in them when it comes to morals/ethics of this all

 

[McUnited]

I fully agree with your opinion! Glad to know there’s folks that still have a bit of humanity in them when it comes to morals/ethics of this all

I haven't gone back through this thread but I suspect there are many on this forum who don't share our position. But that's okay. I tend to differ in opinions on many topics with posters here...

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Likewise.

The blinded, willful, pro-vax pushing advocates do not see that their stance means infinite “involuntary”-mandatory boosters for rest of life. Because that’s quite exactly where this leads to and is leading to.

…..yes smallpox and chicken pox and such were eradicated with the use of vaccines. But do not compare them to these “vaccines”. These very ones don’t eradicate said disease/virus by any measure of the traditional definition. In fact, they actually changed the definition of vaccination as a result of said current vaccines. It’s almost misinformation to have labelled them as such. They’re much more in line of a flu-shot. And the (idiotic) people shouting down “get vaccinated so it’ll eradicate the virus as it was done to smallpox etc” — I guess what they really mean is like how they’ve eradicated the flu in the past.

Attack the post not the poster. Your post is an idiot. You actually think chicken pox has been eradicated. Feck me. Do you live under a rock?

Now google measles, mumps, rubella, hepatitis and HPV. None of these diseases have been eradicated. Yet vaccines still protect millions from the morbidity/mortality they would otherwise cause.

 

[Bosws87]

I would venture to say that means your body is very clued in on what the virus is and this means you are at a much lower risk of negative outcomes if you happen to become infected.

Or the opposite as i've been told the overreactive immune response is usually the thing that kills people so he may of had a terrible reaction if he genuinely caught covid.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

I fully agree with your opinion! Glad to know there’s folks that still have a bit of humanity in them when it comes to morals/ethics of this all

Inhuman. Immoral. Unethical. Strong accusations.

 

[CanadianUtd]

Honestly these vaccines are probably humanity’s greatest work of all time - not sure what comes close?

Then I guess that means so are flu shots since they both work in the same ways.

I mean they’re great but no cures by any stretch of the imagination. Greatest work definitely by the pharmaceutical’s such as pfizer who pocketed a cool, record breaking $33B profit this year and are already projected to add an extra $3B to that next year. With virtually $0 going towards marketing with said products being used in emergency use/not FDA approved so they don’t even have or need the green light to advertise an approved product (which usually would mean nearly half of their profits were used towards that but nbd it’s being done by governments for them at no cost! )

 

[Hectic]

I haven't posted in this thread before but just wanted to say that you're an inspiration @CanadianUtd and thank you for posting despite the fear of a backlash being so high. It takes a lot of courage to do what you're doing. In a way you remind me of those fighters who in the face of an overwhelming enemy will still hold on to their core beliefs and principles even if the chance of winning is basically zero. Yes, it would be fair to say you are the Bin Laden of the covid world.

 

[CanadianUtd]

I haven't gone back through this thread but I suspect there are many on this forum who don't share our position. But that's okay. I tend to differ in opinions on many topics with posters here...

Yep and honestly could care less about them (although it is alarming and shocking…)

Attack the post not the poster. Your post is an idiot.

Do you live under a rock?

yes I mean, people who got those vaccines are immune from getting said virus/disease. Unlike these “vaccines”(shots)

btw you seem to be a hateful person. I won’t be responding to you if this is how you interact with folks and expect to converse. Rather pathetic.

 

[Bosws87]

Likewise.

The blinded, willful, pro-vax pushing advocates do not see that their stance means infinite “involuntary”-mandatory boosters for rest of life. Because that’s quite exactly where this leads to and is leading to.

…..yes smallpox and chicken pox and such were eradicated with the use of vaccines. But do not compare them to these “vaccines”. These very ones don’t eradicate said disease/virus by any measure of the traditional definition. In fact, they actually changed the definition of vaccination as a result of said current vaccines. It’s almost misinformation to have labelled them as such. They’re much more in line of a flu-shot. And the (idiotic) people shouting down “get vaccinated so it’ll eradicate the virus as it was done to smallpox etc” — I guess what they really mean is like how they’ve eradicated the flu in the past.

Yeh i don't follow that timeline, i do however think Boris is making a huge overreaction to the data that's available and there is no real need for panic stations of the booster in all ages, totally get it for the clinically vulnerable/ elderly.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

Then I guess that means so are flu shots since they both work in the same ways.

I mean they’re great but no cures by any stretch of the imagination. Greatest work definitely by the pharmaceutical’s such as pfizer who pocketed a cool, record breaking $33B profit this year and are already projected to add an extra $3B to that next year. With virtually $0 going towards marketing with said products being used in emergency use/not FDA approved so they don’t even have or need the green light to advertise an approved product (which usually would mean nearly half of their profits were used towards that but nbd it’s being done by governments for them at no cost! )

Now, I strongly suspect we would not see eye to eye on economic politics but that's an issue of unfettered capitalism. Who else would produce the vaccines in the current global set up?

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Or the opposite as i've been told the overreactive immune response is usually the thing that kills people so he may of had a terrible reaction if he genuinely caught covid.

I'm talking about now after @Beachryan has had his booster. Three days of feeling unwell is pretty standard for an immune response.

 

[CanadianUtd]

I haven't posted in this thread before but just wanted to say that you're an inspiration @CanadianUtd and thank you for posting despite the fear of a backlash being so high. It takes a lot of courage to do what you're doing. In a way you remind me of those fighters who in the face of an overwhelming enemy will still hold on to their core beliefs and principles even if the chance of winning is basically zero. Yes, it would be fair to say you are the Bin Laden of the covid world.

thank you, you’re honestly too kind haha


likewise I think today is my first time in this thread. It’s crazy how extreme and team-oriented certain folks are. I’m just open minded and wanting to put my opinions and information out there with the openness to respectful dialogue. People that can’t do that don’t interest me at all.

…in spite of what’s going on in the world right now and what’s progressed/progressing (the ramifications), I may skim through some random pages of the thread and quote/bump things that have come to fruition. But it’ll probably be a waste of time because there’s bound to be some sort of justification for it all so maybe better off not bothering.

 

[Tarrou]

Yep and honestly could care less about them (although it is alarming and shocking…)






yes I mean, people who got those vaccines are immune from getting said virus/disease. Unlike these “vaccines”(shots)

btw you seem to be a hateful person. I won’t be responding to you if this is how you interact with folks and expect to converse. Rather pathetic.

I don't think this is true, no vaccine is 100% effective

 

[Lj82]

Begrudging that Pfizer is raking in profits from the vaccines is weird, when they are saving million of lives worldwide and allowing people to actually have some semblance of normalcy back.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

thank you, you’re honestly too kind haha


likewise I think today is my first time in this thread. It’s crazy how extreme and team-oriented certain folks are. I’m just open minded and wanting to put my opinions and information out there with the openness to respectful dialogue. People that can’t do that don’t interest me at all.

…in spite of what’s going on in the world right now and what’s progressed/progressing (the ramifications), I may skim through some random pages of the thread and quote/bump things that have come to fruition. But it’ll probably be a waste of time because there’s bound to be some sort of justification for it all so maybe better off not bothering.

You just called a poster a hateful person and pathetic and inferred that a proportion of the posters in the thread were inhuman, immoral and unethical. Not sure you're quite hitting the mark here.

 

[CanadianUtd]

I don't think this is true, no vaccine is 100% effective

In comparison to these vaccines and their drop-off rates (hence the need to endless boosters to makeup for said drops), it’s almost night and day in comparison to those certain traditional vaccines.

Point being, these ones are far more similar to flu shots. And remember how far the goal posts have moved down the line since they first talked about the vaccines. They talked of them in the traditional sense. That you wouldn’t contract covid and wouldn’t be able to transmit it. Remember “breakthrough” cases? …so yea, more like the covid equivalent flu shots. Mandatory for the rest of life as it’ll keep mutating as does the flu? That’ll be a no from me…..

 

[CanadianUtd]

You just called a poster a hateful person and pathetic and inferred that a proportion of the posters in the thread were inhuman, immoral and unethical. Not sure you're quite hitting the mark here.

I said so in response, not initiation, which I feel is true with how the poster came across.

And yes, the ramifications of these covid lockdowns/regulations are inhumane, immoral, and unethical. History proves that and so does common sense. It’s not an opinion, it’s a fact actually. Now if you’d like to discuss that we can by all means :]

 

[Hectic]

thank you, you’re honestly too kind haha


likewise I think today is my first time in this thread. It’s crazy how extreme and team-oriented certain folks are. I’m just open minded and wanting to put my opinions and information out there with the openness to respectful dialogue. People that can’t do that don’t interest me at all.

…in spite of what’s going on in the world right now and what’s progressed/progressing (the ramifications), I may skim through some random pages of the thread and quote/bump things that have come to fruition. But it’ll probably be a waste of time because there’s bound to be some sort of justification for it all so maybe better off not bothering.

Yes and that's also what led me to form the comparison I used given the narrative is so one sided. Obviously the Taliban and Bin Laden are not looked upon favourably here so it seemed natural to put you on that "side" so to speak. The analogy also works as a prediction model as well as I expect all your arguments to be ignored as "extremist thinking" or "intellectual terrorism" and I can see the same thing happening where the mods will eventually go along with the public sentiment that you are a dangerous poster and ban you (shoot you in the head and throw you in the sea).

 

[Fingeredmouse]

I said so in response, not initiation, which I feel is true with how the poster came across.

And yes, the ramifications of these covid lockdowns/regulations are inhumane, immoral, and unethical. History proves that and so does common sense. It’s not an opinion, it’s a fact actually. Now if you’d like to discuss that we can by all means :]

So, I've had a long day and debating this matter with a poster who states that their opinion is fact and has form for insulting people and cites history on a literally unprecedented set of factors sounds like a recipe for disaster but fair enough then. Let's debate it.

Which ramifications do you project for the future as a consequence of tactics deployed to deal with Covid (or perhaps deployed under the excuse of dealing with Covid if you see it that way)? I assume you are referring to increased powers for Governments such the capacity to track individuals and increased societal compliance to control measures? These are valid concerns but what else would you suggest should have been done to control this pandemic's onslought?

 

[McUnited]

Then I guess that means so are flu shots since they both work in the same ways.

I mean they’re great but no cures by any stretch of the imagination. Greatest work definitely by the pharmaceutical’s such as pfizer who pocketed a cool, record breaking $33B profit this year and are already projected to add an extra $3B to that next year. With virtually $0 going towards marketing with said products being used in emergency use/not FDA approved so they don’t even have or need the green light to advertise an approved product (which usually would mean nearly half of their profits were used towards that but nbd it’s being done by governments for them at no cost! )

And, as far as I understand, in the UK at least they have indemnity from the government against litigation. The government will pay around £120,000 compensation for people suffering severe side-effects - perhaps an adequate sum at the time the provision was brought in several decades ago, but no longer fit for purpose.

 

[CanadianUtd]

Now, I strongly suspect we would not see eye to eye on economic politics but that's an issue of unfettered capitalism. Who else would produce the vaccines in the current global set up?

Okay, simple question for you then: if the pharmaceuticals such as pfizer are such God sends, then why aren’t they pushing through their own product to certain underprivileged nations that aren’t giving them full immunity of said product? Those nations will still pay them millions/billions to receive the product and all they ask is they have the option to be held liable in the case of any unfortunate circumstance. And yet they won’t budge. If they’re truly hero’s and doing all this selfless work for humanity as some say they are, then wouldn't you think the least they could do is comprise there, still make a buck off their product, in order to offer their life/epidemic/pandemic saving production to those in need? This was mentioned by the president of the world bank, I’m only further inquiring why that is.

Begrudging that Pfizer is raking in profits from the vaccines is weird, when they are saving million of lives worldwide and allowing people to actually have some semblance of normalcy back.

sure, if this is what you deem/accept as normalcy

 

[CanadianUtd]

Yes and that's also what led me to form the comparison I used given the narrative is so one sided. Obviously the Taliban and Bin Laden are not looked upon favourably here so it seemed natural to put you on that "side" so to speak. The analogy also works as a prediction model as well as I expect all your arguments to be ignored as "extremist thinking" or "intellectual terrorism" and I can see the same thing happening where the mods will eventually go along with the public sentiment that you are a dangerous poster and ban you (shoot you in the head and throw you in the sea).

Woah. Really??

I really hope you’re exaggerating. Definitely don’t have any intentions to be some sort of wrench in the way. And I’m definitely not trying to be controversial or out there. Only stating what my honest feelings are. And I’m unsure of how to feel of this comparison to the Taliban/Bin Laden

 

[CanadianUtd]

Which ramifications do you project for the future as a consequence of tactics deployed to deal with Covid (or perhaps deployed under the excuse of dealing with Covid if you see it that way)? I assume you are referring to increased powers for Governments such the capacity to track individuals and increased societal compliance to control measures? These are valid concerns

So you agree. That was easy.

I’ll go on a limb and I don’t know, say not do the things they themselves said they wouldn’t do/implement but have gone ahead and done anyways, which were a question of morals/ethics to begin with that they acknowledged but as we now know it have backtracked on. That’d be a start.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

Okay, simple question for you then: if the pharmaceuticals such as pfizer are such God sends, then why aren’t they pushing through their own product to certain underprivileged nations that aren’t giving them full immunity of said product? Those nations will still pay them millions/billions to receive the product and all they ask is they have the option to be held liable in the case of any unfortunate circumstance. And yet they won’t budge. If they’re truly hero’s and doing all this selfless work for humanity as some say they are, then wouldn't you think the least they could do is comprise there, still make a buck off their product, in order to offer their life/epidemic/pandemic saving production to those in need? This was mentioned by the president of the world bank, I’m only further inquiring why that is.

I don't think pharmaceutical businesses "God sends". Big Pharma are profit driven capitalist entities and not altruistic. Pretty much all the experts work for them. Given we didn't have time for some utopian evolution of global human society what else was meant to happen precisely? There is no other mechanism. Clearly distribution to poorer countries should have been given far more priority and, personally, profit driven medical care is something I am not a fan of. None of this undermines the value of the vaccine but is merely a critique of human nature, global politics and , from my perspective, poorly regulated economic policies and industry governance.

A poster describing the vaccines themselves, however, as a good thing is clearly not wrong. The scientists and technicians and medics and trialists who helped develop these vaccines in record time have done good things objectively.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

So you agree. That was easy.

I’ll go on a limb and I don’t know, say not do the things they themselves said they wouldn’t do/implement but have gone ahead and done anyways, which were a question of morals/ethics to begin with that they acknowledged but as we now know it have backtracked on. That’d be a start.

I agree that they're valid concerns, yes. I'm not sure there'd be many people who don't have at least some level of concern.

Who is "they" in your third sentence? Governments in general? A specific government?

As an aside, your second paragraph doesn't feel like it's in the spirit of open discussion that you claim.

 

[CanadianUtd]

@Fingeredmouse thank you for the thorough response, I really do appreciate your time. However didn’t answer my concern about why they haven’t gone into those nations who aren’t offering them immunity to their product.

It won’t prevent them from making their profit, they’ll still get paid for it if they accept said compromise. But they don’t. They want absolutely zero risk and all reward. As evident by their (in)actions here and unwillingness to budge. If this is really that severe of a pandemic and a question about life or death and the ability to save people’s lives with said product, then why don’t the compromise on that one thing and still go ahead while making money for it?

 

[Fingeredmouse]

@Fingeredmouse thank you for the thorough response, I really do appreciate your time. However didn’t answer my concern about why they haven’t gone into those nations who aren’t offering them immunity to their product.

It won’t prevent them from making their profit, they’ll still get paid for it if they accept said compromise. But they don’t. They want absolutely zero risk and all reward. As evident by their (in)actions here and unwillingness to budge. If this is really that severe of a pandemic and a question about life or death and the ability to save people’s lives with said product, then why don’t the compromise on that one thing and still go ahead while making money for it?

What do you mean by "immunity to their product"? Can you give examples please?

 

[CanadianUtd]

I agree that they're valid concerns, yes. I'm not sure there'd be many people who don't have at least some level of concern.

Who is "they" in your third sentence? Governments in general? A specific government?

As an aside, your second paragraph doesn't feel like it's in the spirit of open discussion that you claim.

Yes, they as in governments/elected officials who said they wouldn’t push through the regulations and such which ended up doing and going back on their own words.

That’s fair but I disagree with it. It’s a very straight forward and simple response as far as I’m concerned. You said what else should they have done? My response is the things they themselves said they wouldn’t do. They could still go about offering the product they’ve paid for, no one’s stopping them. But within the realm of ethics and stripping away peoples rights. Again, which they said they wouldn’t push or do.

 

[CanadianUtd]

What do you mean by "immunity to their product"? Can you give examples please?

 

[Fingeredmouse]

Yes, they as in governments/elected officials who said they wouldn’t push through the regulations and such which ended up doing and going back on their own words.

That’s fair but I disagree with it. It’s a very straight forward and simple response as far as I’m concerned. You said what else should they have done? My response is the things they themselves said they wouldn’t do. They could still go about offering the product they’ve paid for, no one’s stopping them. But within the realm of ethics and stripping away peoples rights. Again, which they said they wouldn’t push or do.

So, your position would broadly be that if someone doesn't want to take the vaccine, for non medical reasons, that any restrictions placed on them as a consequence of legislation (say a vaccine passport to enter hospitality venues) is inherently immoral?

 

[Stack]

I said so in response, not initiation, which I feel is true with how the poster came across.

And yes, the ramifications of these covid lockdowns/regulations are inhumane, immoral, and unethical. History proves that and so does common sense. It’s not an opinion, it’s a fact actually. Now if you’d like to discuss that we can by all means :]

In the country I live in your comment about ramifications is very clearly completely wrong. You are too often applying very broad strokes and seem to be forgetting that things elsewhere are not as per your own personal experience.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

@Fingeredmouse thank you for the thorough response, I really do appreciate your time. However didn’t answer my concern about why they haven’t gone into those nations who aren’t offering them immunity to their product.

It won’t prevent them from making their profit, they’ll still get paid for it if they accept said compromise. But they don’t. They want absolutely zero risk and all reward. As evident by their (in)actions here and unwillingness to budge. If this is really that severe of a pandemic and a question about life or death and the ability to save people’s lives with said product, then why don’t the compromise on that one thing and still go ahead while making money for it?

They don't want to be tied up in foreign courts for the next decade battling mostly frivolous lawsuits.

They want to enjoy similar or better protections that those they have enshrined in law in Canada, the US and Europe.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

Yes, but more detail is needed. All medical treatments have some level of side effect. Legal responsibility for side effects from horrendous incidents such as the Thalidomide disaster are reasonable for instance. Given the clear efficacy and, given we've just gone through the biggest sample size for a medical trail ever, the very low incidence of meaningful side effects I struggle to see why any pharmaceutical would have an issue complying with standard legal process in any country. It seems from the video you posted, for instance, that no standard indemnity exists for Pfizer in certain countries (I assume because they have no prior engagements that are in anyway comparable).

Are you suggesting the reluctance is because they're worried about some side effect they'll be legally on the hook for?

 

[CanadianUtd]

So, your position would broadly be that if someone doesn't want to take the vaccine, for non medical reasons, that any restrictions placed on them as a consequence of legislation (say a vaccine passport to enter hospitality venues) is inherently immoral?

Yes. I mean, the Nuremberg code is/was a thing for a reason.

…..hypothetically, even if someone said instead of the vaccine you have to take vitamins or something that has absolutely zero risk to a person. If the ramifications were/are the same as they are now, I’d still be against it. Because it’s inhumane. But that’s also not the case. There’s nothing involuntary about what’s going on and certain peoples lives have been severely restricted as a result of it. That is completely immoral.

…..an exaggeration: running 30 minutes a day is good for you and prevents future health complications which will otherwise cause a strain to the health sectors. Run every day or else you can’t access *insert current rules/regulations/ramifications* and no if’s and’s or but’s.

but it’s even more crazy when you realize the vaccinated and unvaccinated can still catch and transmit covid. The only thing the vaccine does is marginally prevent hospitalization. So what should it matter to know one’s status? They aren’t harming anyone other than themselves potentially. And if they don’t feel the need to take said product for any reason at all, that should be completely justifiable and not held against them in any way, shape or form. It boggles me when an unhealthy persons who takes the jab somehow is more mindful and safe than a person who lives a clean and healthy lifestyle. 1 size fits all has never been the case for humanity apart from water. Why is there this extreme narrative that it has to be with this or any other thing. Completely illogical. And then to restrict people as a result.

 

[CanadianUtd]

anyways, I’ll be busy for a bit.

Will get back to those that respond and further want to have a bit of back n forth and just discuss. Cheers!

 

[Carolina Red]

Likewise.

The blinded, willful, pro-vax pushing advocates do not see that their stance means infinite “involuntary”-mandatory boosters for rest of life. Because that’s quite exactly where this leads to and is leading to.

…..yes smallpox and chicken pox and such were eradicated with the use of vaccines. But do not compare them to these “vaccines”. These very ones don’t eradicate said disease/virus by any measure of the traditional definition. In fact, they actually changed the definition of vaccination as a result of said current vaccines. It’s almost misinformation to have labelled them as such. They’re much more in line of a flu-shot. And the (idiotic) people shouting down “get vaccinated so it’ll eradicate the virus as it was done to smallpox etc” — I guess what they really mean is like how they’ve eradicated the flu in the past.

You could have just typed “I don’t know what I’m talking about”… or nothing. Either would have worked better than that post.

 

[Stack]

Yes. I mean, the Nuremberg code is/was a thing for a reason.

…..hypothetically, even if someone said instead of the vaccine you have to take vitamins or something that has absolutely zero risk to a person. If the ramifications were/are the same as they are now, I’d still be against it. Because it’s inhumane. But that’s also not the case. There’s nothing involuntary about what’s going on and certain peoples lives have been severely restricted as a result of it. That is completely immoral.

…..an exaggeration: running 30 minutes a day is good for you and prevents future health complications which will otherwise cause a strain to the health sectors. Run every day or else you can’t access *insert current rules/regulations/ramifications* and no if’s and’s or but’s.

but it’s even more crazy when you realize the vaccinated and unvaccinated can still catch and transmit covid. The only thing the vaccine does is marginally prevent hospitalization. So what should it matter to know one’s status? They aren’t harming anyone other than themselves potentially. And if they don’t feel the need to take said product for any reason at all, that should be completely justifiable and not held against them in any way, shape or form. It boggles me when an unhealthy persons who takes the jab somehow is more mindful and safe than a person who lives a clean and healthy lifestyle. 1 size fits all has never been the case for humanity apart from water. Why is there this extreme narrative that it has to be with this or any other thing. Completely illogical. And then to restrict people as a result.

Keep on building your arguments on falsehoods, the only person you end up fooling is yourself.

 

[Widow]

Your post is an idiot

This is genuinely funny.