F1 2021 Season

To be honest, Mercedes is Mercedes right? They are so well known I'm not sure F1 really helps them their image that much. It's like Ferrari. They will survive without F1. Mercedes weren't even a works team until the last decade or so anyway.

But I agree that pulling out completely is sticky and unlikely. I don't know when their obligations expire but not renewing would be much easier.
 
rpitroda said:
Perhaps that’s true but the point stands - if it really did have such a significant effect on brand performance and prestige, why wouldn’t they go through all of that pain to get there?
Click to expand...
Well as I said, it would take either a lot of time for r&d or a lot of money , as the initial investment which also btw has a limit as the latest rules go. And not every sports car maker can afford it since they are not as big a
corp as merc.
 
Ikon said:
I mean for my personal interests lasting in F1 any longer.
My interest in F1 after that debacle has probably now gone, but a younger TV generation probably loved the staged drama, and that's what I mean about the "sport" evolving onto appeal to that kind of TV audience going forward. Oldies such as myself, that are calling fraud, aren't as important as boosting the TV numbers.
You get me?
Click to expand...

Yes I have. Understood.
 
The Firestarter said:
Cost for participation is negligible for such a corporation. They get the coolness factor, especially with the likes of Russel now on board, just like it was initially with Lewis. Prestige is extremely important for luxury car maker . Also, something that I place big value on is R&D work and developments orignally inspired by the fierce sports competition that eventually reach the "ordinary" cars.
Click to expand...
They might get more exposure for 12-24 months for leaving following the lack of integrity in the sport. So from a media/ marketing perspective leaving could work.

I don't think they'll leave though.
 
The Firestarter said:
Cost for participation is negligible for such a corporation. They get the coolness factor, especially with the likes of Russel now on board, just like it was initially with Lewis. Prestige is extremely important for luxury car maker . Also, something that I place big value on is R&D work and developments orignally inspired by the fierce sports competition that eventually reach the "ordinary" cars.
Click to expand...

They've been in F1 for a total of 14 of the last 72 years. They would be fine without it, and none of their rivals have any presence in the sport. Arguably there is greater crossover to the road car business from sportscar racing and prototypes, which is why Mercedes, Audi and BMW have all spent more time in those categories than they have F1 over the years.

F1 has always needed Ferrari, and now Mercedes, more than they need F1.
 
11101 said:
They've been in F1 for a total of 14 of the last 72 years. They would be fine without it, and none of their rivals have any presence in the sport. Arguably there is greater crossover to the road car business from sportscar racing and prototypes, which is why Mercedes, Audi and BMW have all spent more time in those categories than they have F1 over the years.

F1 has always needed Ferrari, and now Mercedes, more than they need F1.
Click to expand...
Mercedes have been involved and supplied engines for many more years than that.
 
If Mercedes thinks it's beneficial to them to leave F1 they'll do it in a heartbeat. Contracts? Pff. I'm sure they have clauses for it too, given their history.

I don't think they'll do it, but part of me wishes they and Ferrari pull the rug out under F1 should this sham be allowed to continue. Let Red Bull race Monster using TWR V8's or something.
 
I am sorry did someone claim mercedes will go bankrupt if they leave f1? Of course they will be fine. However they are certainly finer being in, than out.
 
rpitroda said:
F1 obviously needs Mercedes more than they need F1. How many teams would be left without Mercedes engines? And it’s nice advertising of course and they do make money through sponsorship and what not but at the same time there is growing focus on the fact that it’s not environmentally friendly, and no doubt as a stand alone business line is loss making. The engineering and research can be done anyway, so not a factor. Also, how many people genuinely buy a car brand because they see it on a motor sport? And at this point what proportion of people have not heard of Mercedes who would be in a position to consider buying one?

If Mercedes don’t take it to CAS, then the only reason for that is because they have the FIA and Liberty by the scrote and have managed to get something pretty substantial be it financial or otherwise.

I know the team isn’t owned outright but Mercedes but still.
Click to expand...
Toto owns around 35% of the team, can’t see him pulling the plug, it would take a vast chunk of his 500 million net worth with it, also about car sales mercs had the best ever year in terms of car sale in 2016, people always like a winner.
 
spiriticon said:
I mean, I will still watch it as a spectacle and enjoy spectacular crashes and Masi screwjobs, but then let's not start giving out plaudits, knighthoods and accolades for the champion. Let's stop arguing who is the GOAT sportsman out of Lewis, Schumacher or Senna. It's like arguing whether Hulk Hogan or the Rock is the better sports competitor because who won more WWE titles how, when and where. We can argue about who is the best performer or most entertaining for sure. It is definitely Max as he is the likeliest to cause an accident and give us a spectacular show with flying tyres everywhere. Lewis is a bit too old and safe now. On that basis, defo Max deserves to be champion.
Click to expand...
Are you sure that the FIA or F1 orgainzation care why you watch though? Cause if they don't, and are fine with getting more viewers for the spectacle, then this...
11101 said:
Masi forgot what his job is, safety. He thought he was responsible for entertainment and I'm 99% sure he will lose his job for it. Teams don't trust him, drivers don't trust him.
Click to expand...
...is wrong, and evereyone criticizing Masi is simply misunderstanding what he's being paid to do.

I guess we'll know better once we learn who will be next year's Race Director. If it's still Masi, then clearly it's spectacle over consistency.
Fluctuation0161 said:
They might get more exposure for 12-24 months for leaving following the lack of integrity in the sport. So from a media/ marketing perspective leaving could work.
Click to expand...
Overall, I don't think it would help their brand if they quit F1 - and I certainly don't think a decision to quit would reverberate for quite that long.

I mean, it might not help them much either to be in F1 (as @hellhunter said above, some of the biggest car companies are doing fine without ever having been in F1), but I don't think they'll sell more cars or get significantly more fans in other racing classes if they'd quit now. I'd understand, though, if they feel F1 has become too much of a WWE-type spectacle and don't want to participate anymore.
Fluctuation0161 said:
To say the race was manipulated by the FIA is not saying Max did anything wrong in that race.
Click to expand...
Which is why I think calling Verstappen a cheater is not deserved. (Which you did do.) Even if you think he's done unfair things in previous races, it's not like he has been trying to hide it; whatever was allowed and should not have been is all on Masi and the stewards.
 
christy87 said:
Toto owns around 35% of the team, can’t see him pulling the plug, it would take a vast chunk of his 500 million net worth with it, also about car sales mercs had the best ever year in terms of car sale in 2016, people always like a winner.
Click to expand...
And how have other manufacturer car sakes fared? You can’t look at that in isolation. Not only that, car sakes have so many other variables than being in F1.

The point about Toto and Ineos is obviously true and they’ve both got far more interest in keeping Merc in the game. But there has also been plenty of articles about Toto convincing Merc to stay which implies they aren’t quite as sold on it.
 
Cheimoon said:
Are you sure that the FIA or F1 orgainzation care why you watch though? Cause if they don't, and are fine with getting more viewers for the spectacle, then this...
Click to expand...

No of course they don't. But on a personal note, I will enjoy the spectacle more by having different expectations of what I am seeing, I won't have a foul mood about dodgy decisions and I can personally ignore all discussions about GOAT drivers.

I still love a good literal car crash :lol: But defo I won't watch as much as this season, putting time aside for quali on Sat and race on Sun every 2 weeks.
 
Last edited:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/formula-1/hamilton-mercedes-fia-appeal-negatives-25694500

Is this section incorrect? Seems to be the only article saying it.

"And, in another blow to the team, the rules state that, if that challenge inside the FIA's Paris offices were to fail, there is no chance of being able to go to a higher authority for another appeal.

A challenge to CAS is forbidden, meaning proceedings in front of an entirely independent group of panellists is impossible."
 
I fear for this thread when certain people realise the idea of a CAS appeal was always a non starter.
 
11101 said:
The financial commitment required to supply engines is nothing compared to running a team as they do now.
Click to expand...
The point is, losing a big engine manufacturer who has been in the sport for decades would be a blow for F1. It would be second only to losing Ferrari imo.
 
While we're all here - don't forget to vote for the RedCafe awards! The voting threads are here:

Part 1
Part 2

The voting template is at the start of each thread - but you don't need to vote in every category. If you don't want to spend much time on this, just vote for the ones you can think of right away and leave it at that. We'd basically just to love to get more votes and get results that are a bit more representative of the entire forum.

Thanks!
 


The FIA have decided that the making up of a rule on the spot to manufacture drama and end a race disregarding the rules has generated outrage by fans, teams and drivers alike simply because it was all just misunderstood and they want everyone to meet to discuss how making up rules on the spot to add drama is perfectly fine because all this bickering is causing damage. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything quite so tone deaf…
 
They’ve got to be confident that Mercedes have zero intention of going to CAS making a statement like that.
 
Pexbo said:
They’ve got to be confident that Mercedes have zero intention of going to CAS making a statement like that.
Click to expand...

Which is what I've been saying the whole time.

They were never going to let it get to CAS. Mercedes were always going to be bought off.

Their response will be interestingly written no doubt, but the deal was done that night probably. Hence why Toto was celebrating like that :lol:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.