Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch

[passing-wind]

Some ridiculous comments from one poster mostly. I agree with Hargreaves the highlights he made on BT before Ragnick came in, this United team has enough quality to challenge when a proper manager is in charge. Ragnick is not renowned for his credentials at first team level, he is far more proficient when it comes to influencing the philosophy within the hierarchy of clubs. I don't think we will see his best work until he phases into that position.

Arsenal's current run seems determined by good form more so than class it will take more consistency before the club can be considered a genuine top four team for me. I have absolutely no bias against the London lot either, I have stated previously having preferred Arteta to Ole on the basis of his style of leadership.

I know Solskjaer probably has a stronger CV on the basis of league performances but I always felt with Ole he was never building towards anything but rather just coasting not making a difference with his ideas. Ole seemingly lacked vision and its clearly demonstrated with the team being strengthened and performances getting worse he had no direction for the team.

The reality for both Ole and Arteta is they are in this league era where there are top quality managers across the board making things more challenging. Conte, Pep, Klopp and Tuchel they are in their own categories respectfully all others fall significantly short. Then there's promising individuals in the form of the Potter's and I guess even Gerrard / Viera has the potential to throw their hat into the mix.

 

[Cascarino]

City game isn’t important, being a flat track bully is fine at this moment if it gets them top 4. They’re becoming a team that wins the game they’re expected to, which if they keep that up will guarantee them CL football.

 

[Dancfc]

City game isn’t important, being a flat track bully is fine at this moment if it gets them top 4. They’re becoming a team that wins the game they’re expected to, which if they keep that up will guarantee them CL football.

Tottenham have won their last 4 at home to City. Palace reguarly get results against them.

The idea that it doesn't matter that Arsenal keep losing to these teams just screams getting the excuses in for Arteta early.

 

[Cascarino]

Tottenham have won their last 4 at home to City. Palace reguarly get results against them.

The idea that it doesn't matter that Arsenal keep losing to these teams just screams getting the excuses in for Arteta early.

It doesn’t matter, if Arsenal get top 4 come the end of the season no one is gonna look back and say well they lost at home to city (except some of the weirdos in this thread).

United drew with Newcastle yesterday, Chelsea have dropped points to Wolves, Everton, West Ham and Burnley in the last month. These are the games that matter to Arsenal. If they get spanked by Liverpool and City but beat the fodder, they’ll get top 4.

You have to remember, no one this summer predicted Arsenal getting top 4, now that they’re on a good run to turn around and say if they lose to City all their progress is gone is silly.

 

[Dancfc]

It doesn’t matter, if Arsenal get top 4 come the end of the season no one is gonna look back and say well they lost at home to city (except some of the weirdos in this thread).

United drew with Newcastle yesterday, Chelsea have dropped points to Wolves, Everton, West Ham and Burnley in the last month. These are the games that matter to Arsenal. If they get spanked by Liverpool and City but beat the fodder, they’ll get top 4.

You have to remember, no one this summer predicted Arsenal getting top 4, now that they’re on a good run to turn around and say if they lose to City all their progress is gone is silly.

Part of the reason they turned against Wenger was because they kept getting stuffed against anyone half decent, nearly 4 years on and it's happening again.

I assume for a club the size of Arsenal the plan is to eventually get back into the title mix, normalizing defeats against City, Liverpool and even us as free hits is not a habit that will be easy to break when they actually need to start getting points in these games.

 

[Daydreamer]

I feel that “The Big Games“ are both over and under-hyped.

Unless a game is with your direct rivals for that season (in our case United / Spurs / West Ham) the result is no more important to our final league position than games against lower teams. You don’t get more points for beating City than Norwich.

However - you also don’t get less points. So it makes no sense to write off our games against City as a “free hit” when the difference between us finishing 8th and 4th last season was… two wins.

 

[Nish115]

Part of the reason they turned against Wenger was because they kept getting stuffed against anyone half decent, nearly 4 years on and it's happening again.

I assume for a club the size of Arsenal the plan is to eventually get back into the title mix, normalizing defeats against City, Liverpool and even us as free hits is not a habit that will be easy to break when they actually need to start getting points in these games.

That is the plan for sure, but comparing to Spurs is difficult. Spurs get points from those games because they are heavily set up to counter. They defend well and solid and break, which is what gets them points vs big teams.

Actually, when Arteta first came to Arsenal, we did a very similar thing, and this did get us results vs Chelsea, City etc when we played 5 atb.

But now he is trying to set the blueprint of a 4-2-3-1 of sorts, and not changing it depending on the team. This will mean there's times where we will get stuffed by City and Liverpool. The only way that will change is with more experience from the younger players on how to deal with those games, and also more signings to help bring the overall quality up. Laca and Xhaka both dissapear too often against big sides, and both need to be upgraded for a chance of doing that.

The alternative would be to flip flop between formations in an attempt to get something from those games but I don't think Arteta wants to go to that route, I think he wants to drill this system home, and hope any loses that come from it are lessons to the younger guys.

Edit: I'm on a 5 post limit so this is me for today, so have a good day all!

 

[Cascarino]

Part of the reason they turned against Wenger was because they kept getting stuffed against anyone half decent, nearly 4 years on and it's happening again.

I assume for a club the size of Arsenal the plan is to eventually get back into the title mix, normalizing defeats against City, Liverpool and even us as free hits is not a habit that will be easy to break when they actually need to start getting points in these games.

For the first part, the targets are obviously very different. If you offered every Arsenal supporter top 4 at the end of the season, you’d probably get every single one saying yes, right? Emery and Arteta were starting from very different points to Wenger in his final years. They have to be judged by different metrics, it’s not a one to one comparison.

For the second part, the name of the club doesn’t matter. Being called Arsenal isn’t going to magically get you points. Arsenal are significantly outspent on wages by four other sides. Eventually they’re going to have to challenge, but absolutely no one expected it of them this season. If they get top four, it’ll have been a good season for them, everything else is
just noise.

This part isn’t directed at you, but now that they’re in the mix for top four, to come out and say if they don’t get four points from City and Liverpool they’re back to square one is clearly asinine, and an obvious shifting of the goalposts. When you’ve spent years mocking a manager and talking about the damage he’s doing, it’s hard to take a step back and admit he’s doing a better job than you thought he would.

 

[Donaldo]

I guess I should take that as a compliment, considering Arsenal were a considerably better team a decade ago than they are right now!

Exactly, but you're also top 4 hopefuls only, not serious title challengers for the next 10.

On the plus side, you're a season away from winning the FA cup in a match that will epitomize the last ten years for you

 

[maniak]

I think he plays an important role for Arteta's system. I just don't see Arteta will sell him unless Xhaka wants out. I hope Lacazette will renew his contract too so he can give us option up front. His link up play is very good. Hopefully the club can agree a 2 year deal with him, but I believe Lacazette is looking for a longer deal else where.

Too many bad passes, too many mistakes. We played well when he was out.

 

[Dancfc]

For the first part, the targets are obviously very different. If you offered every Arsenal supporter top 4 at the end of the season, you’d probably get every single one saying yes, right? Emery and Arteta were starting from very different points to Wenger in his final years. They have to be judged by different metrics, it’s not a one to one comparison.

For the second part, the name of the club doesn’t matter. Being called Arsenal isn’t going to magically get you points. Arsenal are significantly outspent on wages by four other sides. Eventually they’re going to have to challenge, but absolutely no one expected it of them this season. If they get top four, it’ll have been a good season for them, everything else is
just noise.

This part isn’t directed at you, but now that they’re in the mix for top four, to come out and say if they don’t get four points from City and Liverpool they’re back to square one is clearly asinine, and an obvious shifting of the goalposts. When you’ve spent years mocking a manager and talking about the damage he’s doing, it’s hard to take a step back and admit he’s doing a better job than you thought he would.

The normalizing defeats because they're a better side shouldn't happen at any size club, for example Palace under Allardyce go down without beating Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool. Under some circumstances it's okay to accept a point and run but never should a game be wrote off as free hits.

Regarding being proved wrong I'll accept that in May if he ends the season in 4th.

 

[Cascarino]

The normalizing defeats because they're a better side shouldn't happen at any size club, for example Palace under Allardyce go down without beating Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool. Under some circumstances it's okay to accept a point and run but never should a game be wrote off as free hits.

Regarding being proved wrong I'll accept that in May if he ends the season in 4th.

I agree with your first paragraph, but I’m talking about the importance of points in those games as a random observer. I doubt Arteta and his side are approaching them as free hits, and I think his overall head to head isn’t that bad against the top 6 is it? (Could be wrong on that have not checked).

As for the second part, I’m not interested in proving you wrong, it’s all subjective after all. What I count as a success for this Arsenal side could be different to your judgement. What I’m arguing against is “if they don’t get four points from City and Liverpool they’re back to square one”. That person is just shifting the goalposts to try and defend his earlier positions. Same as Hansi who gave a points total for 10 games otherwise he said Arteta should lose his job, Arsenal hit that points total and he subsequently ignored the target he set and vehemently argued for his sacking. He’s now taking a sabbatical from this thread but I’m sure if they get a spanking from City he’ll return.

If Arsenal get top 4, there’ll just be a bunch of posts like “wow celebrating top 4 Arteta’s biggest achievement is lowering expectations, get rid!!1”. I won’t get the smug validation I crave, and that’s tragic.

 

[Che Guevara]

Part of the reason they turned against Wenger was because they kept getting stuffed against anyone half decent, nearly 4 years on and it's happening again.

I assume for a club the size of Arsenal the plan is to eventually get back into the title mix, normalizing defeats against City, Liverpool and even us as free hits is not a habit that will be easy to break when they actually need to start getting points in these games.

I wouldn't say it's a habit for Arsenal to lose to the big teams. Last season they easily beat European champions Chelsea home and away, and won at OT. The previous season they beat Liverpool in the league, and beat City and Chelsea on the way to winning the FA Cup. They are a very young team (the youngest in the PL and 11th youngest in Europe's top 5 leagues) with several new faces so some of the losses are to be expected. 21 of their goals have been scored by players aged 21 or under, by far the highest of all PL teams. More than half the team that lost at the start of the season are no longer starting or even playing. Personally I'm impressed with what Arteta is building and I wouldn't be surprised if they finish top 4.

 

[AshRK]

Everyone has a different way to judge a person. If arsenal finish 4th, arteta deserves the praise and no one will be changing any goalposts like one funny poster here claims. However, if people want everyone to praise him and hail him as some messiah at this point then I don't think that's going to happen. Even Arsenal fans have raised doubts over him and will admit he was fortunate to keep his job so it's not just rival fans. I also don't think finishing 6th should be considered as an achievement or dare I say even some great progress. 6th should be bare minimum for a club like Arsenal who has spent 150m plus and has no European football. 4th would be a brilliant season, 6th should be bare minimum, anything lower than that is a poor season.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I wouldn't say it's a habit for Arsenal to lose to the big teams. Last season they easily beat European champions Chelsea home and away, and won at OT. The previous season they beat Liverpool in the league, and beat City and Chelsea on the way to winning the FA Cup. They are a very young team (the youngest in the PL and 11th youngest in Europe's top 5 leagues) with several new faces so some of the losses are to be expected. More than half the team that lost at the start of the season are no longer starting or even playing. Personally I'm impressed with what Arteta is building and I wouldn't be surprised if they finish top 4.

I don’t understand why “they’re a young team” so often gets used to big up Arteta’s achievements. It’s not as though there are extra points for never playing anyone over 30.

United under Ole won the “youngest team in the league” trophy in March 2020 and now look at him/us. Young players can go through growing pains or fail to deliver on the promise they showed in their first season or two of PL football. There are absolutely no guarantees that a good young team will go on to become a better, older team.

 

[Che Guevara]

I don’t understand why “they’re a young team” so often gets used to big up Arteta’s achievements. It’s not as though there are extra points for never playing anyone over 30.

United under Ole won the “youngest team in the league” trophy in March 2020 and now look at him/us. Young players can go through growing pains or fail to deliver on the promise they showed in their first season or two of PL football. There are absolutely no guarantees that a good young team will go on to become a better, older team.

They are still inexperienced and making mistakes, and against vastly experienced players like Mane, Lukaku and Salah they are bound to come short. Simple commonsense really.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

They are still inexperienced and making mistakes, and against vastly experienced players like Mane, Lukaku and Salah they are bound to come short. Simple commonsense really.

I understand the concept of a young footballer, thanks.

 

[Cascarino]

United under Ole won the “youngest team in the league” trophy in March 2020 and now look at him/us. Young players can go through growing pains or fail to deliver on the promise they showed in their first season or two of PL football. There are absolutely no guarantees that a good young team will go on to become a better, older team.

This is all true, development isn’t always linear and there’s never a guarantee that a player will continually take the next step in their progress. This has even happened to Arsenal, they had a mix of some young players not delivering on their potential (for a mix of reasons, stagnation, injuries) and then some who did deliver who then moved to other clubs during their peak.

Saying all that, it is something you absolutely have to take into account. If a manager goes out and buys a bunch of 30 year olds for big money, simply due to the linear passage of time you’re going to have to expect short term success, as well as an acknowledgment that there’ll be little to no resale value. Whereas if the club makes a concerted effort to buy players who are in their early 20s, it naturally means their is room and time for development. Regardless of their “potential”, they won’t be the finished product and lack the experience of many of their rivals.

You mention that Ole side, but you yourself took into account the age of that side when judging them. At the time the youthful age of that side was widely lauded, as is always the case when a manager puts a young side together who do well. Arteta has the youngest side in the league and a lot of his young talents are the ones shining at the moment. No one expects them to get 30 points added due to their age, but when assessing the side you’ll always take the age into account, just as you did with Ole’s young side.

 

[tinfish]

You don’t rate Arteta, I get it. Time will tell if you’re proven right or not. However, from my perspective, there’s currently much to be positive about. The team is playing consistently with much energy and our players are generally young with much room for further improvement. So, I’m optimistic that we will certainly finish in the top 6 and who knows, maybe even better than that. The club is also looking to strengthen the team.

I have no idea whether Rangnick will turn your current squad into world beaters but based upon their performances to date, I doubt it.

Maguire, Lindelof, AWB, Fred, McTominey and Martial are not good enough. Both Rashford and Greenwood seem to have lost confidence not getting enough playing time up against a 34 and a 36 year old who’ve seen better days.

In terms of where you are, I’d say you’re 2 years behind Arsenal.

I'd say this is a top post in all fairness.

First off, I'd like to say the banter between United and Arsenal fans still exist to this day. Despite the declines, it seems both sets of fans hate each other still . I love to see it because when we gain a sense of optimism, United fans love to shoot us down and vice versa. Traditional rivalry will never cease to exist.

Now to chip in with my view:

If you see my post history, I was probably the most pessimistic b*stard on here regarding Arsenal and their trajectory. I'm still not the biggest fan of Arteta and I think half the fan base are still on edge about him. Quite rightly so I must say. He is a rookie manager that is practically learning on the job - however he has a swift ability to rectify most of those mistakes quickly and efficiently. A few good examples include:

- Kicking out Willian (He wanted to bring in some experience but he was out the door a season later)
- Aubameyang (Disciplinary issues)
- The swift integration of youngsters mainly from the academy
- Clearing out the deadwood
- Finally a playing style that we can clearly identify
- Obtaining the right players to suit his philosophy
- Ramsdale (Literally no one wanted him)

One main criticism I have is the fact that Arteta tends to persist with players that are badly out of form, impeding the squad. Dropping Aubameyang is a blessing, but his hand was forced a bit here.

These are off the top of my head. Anyway with these points above combined, Arsenal are finally on a clear upwards trajectory which is great to see after so much mess. People argue about the first two seasons, which I kinda get...however - United supporters especially demand instant gratification. We cannot say the same about Arsenal. Internally and within the fan base we knew a complete rebuilt was due. Lets take a look at the starting XI Arteta inherited compared to what we have now:

Emery's penultimate premier league game against Leicester (Lost 2:0)



Our last game against Norwich



That is a completely different squad. Within two seasons, we have cleared and sold most of the deadwood (a few more players yet to go), signed new players and integrated youngsters more regularly on top of that. During the transition Arteta was on the edge, but now daylight is starting to emerge from the clouds. Arteta won silverware at Arsenal using different players with a different playing identity. It is clear to see why he didn't rate the squad he inherited.

In reference to the post I quoted, this is exactly what United need to do. I would say TJ Reid is spot on. 2 years behind Arsenal in terms of squad rebuild. I think some are getting confused and think Arsenal are a better team. This is not what he is saying. On paper United are better and should expect top 3 at minimum. Top 4 is still a failure for United in my opinion. Even if you achieve that the point still stands, a rebuild is needed to push on to greater levels and to hopefully win the title again. In order to achieve that you'll have to go through what Arsenal are currently doing. A complete rebuild. That is why you appointed Rangnick right?

 

[Daydreamer]

I don’t understand why “they’re a young team” so often gets used to big up Arteta’s achievements.

I think you answer your own question…

Young players can go through growing pains or fail to deliver on the promise they showed in their first season or two of PL football.

It’s harder to build a team with young players as they’re generally more inconsistent. Therefore sitting fourth with the youngest team in the league - all other things being equal - is more difficult than with a more experienced team.

It also gives context to the transfer spend. We spent the most, but we literally bought half a teams worth of U23 players. The plan is for that to truly pay dividends in the long-term. This makes their integration and contributions in the short term more impressive.

 

[Daydreamer]

In reference to the post I quoted, this is exactly what United need to do. I would say TJ Reid is spot on. 2 years behind Arsenal in terms of squad rebuild. I think some are getting confused and think Arsenal are a better team.

I think this may be an area where United are a victim of SAF success right up to the very end.

I’m a steadfast Wenger fan (I’d have him back as Chairman in a heartbeat) and feel he was mistreated by our fan base. However, we were visibly in decline when he left. Whereas SAF retired as a Champion. This has made attempting true rebuild easier for Arsenal than United.

The term “paper of the cracks” is wildly overused, but I think United’s last title is a rare example where it’s fitting. Over a billion spent since, but without a genuine commitment to a rebuild. When it comes it’s will be painful and there will be no guarantee of success (see Arsenal so far for proof). But United’s squad at the moment is top-heavy, ageing, unbalanced Frankenstein of multiple manager’s philosophies. Maybe ten Haag will come in and clean up shop, but I imagine it will take a while. Possibly two years.

 

[anant]

I think you answer your own question…

It’s harder to build a team with young players as they’re generally more inconsistent. Therefore sitting fourth with the youngest team in the league - all other things being equal - is more difficult than with a more experienced team.

It also gives context to the transfer spend. We spent the most, but we literally bought half a teams worth of U23 players. The plan is for that to truly pay dividends in the long-term. This makes their integration and contributions in the short term more impressive.

Its an impressive achievement but at the end of the day you need to be able to fulfill the players' ambitions as well.

Ole learnt it the hard way as well, as he had to buy Bruno, and Cavani in the following season. Should you not break into top 4 in the next season or two, I doubt players like Saka, ESR, Martinelli, Odegaard, etc. would want to stay at Arsenal.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

City game isn’t important, being a flat track bully is fine at this moment if it gets them top 4. They’re becoming a team that wins the game they’re expected to, which if they keep that up will guarantee them CL football.

I have been saying 3 points against top 6 is not important. It is extremely important to get 3 points from clubs outside of top 6, not a draw or lose. I still think a 6th place finish this season is a good result.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

I wouldn't say it's a habit for Arsenal to lose to the big teams. Last season they easily beat European champions Chelsea home and away

The away victory against Chelsea came from one of the most comical goals I've seen in my life, it wasn't easy.

 

[Bilbo]

Personally I'm impressed with what Arteta is building and I wouldn't be surprised if they finish top 4.

Agree with you. They are full of confidence right now and nicely balanced. Obviously at some point they are going to have to go into big matches as relative equals, otherwise what's the point, but right now for their immediate goals a top 4 finish would be huge and they can achieve that by winning the games they should win, especially when we are struggling to do so.

 

[Daydreamer]

Ole learnt it the hard way as well, as he had to buy Bruno, and Cavani in the following season. Should you not break into top 4 in the next season or two, I doubt players like Saka, ESR, Martinelli, Odegaard, etc. would want to stay at Arsenal.

This is definitely true. I think we we might get an extra season of loyalty out of our Academy kids. We’ve signed them all up recently, but when it comes time to renew in the next two or three years we’ll have to be at least challenging for the top honours to keep them.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

Xhaka is very limited, if Arsenal have CL level ambition then will move him over the summer. Laca is not extending his contract, also he isn't a 20 goal a season striker which Arsenal needs desperately.

Striker & CM are two areas Arsenal need upgrades to challenge consistently for top 4.

I believe Arteta rated Xhaka and Lacazette. He will want to keep them. After heavy investment last summer money is tight and need the fund to replace Aubameyang. I think the bridge is burnt between Auba and the club. I have no idea which 20 goals striker Arsenal can get. Proven striker is extremely expensive. Edu needs to gamble on unproven talent again.

 

[GoonerBear]

If you want to truly progress you actually have to start getting results in the big games especially at home.

You can't keep treating these games as free hits forever, especially in the form you're currently in.

To be honest, apart from against City & Liverpool who are just a level apart, we generally do get good results at home vs other top teams. We've beat Chelsea home & away in the recent past, usually beat Spurs at home, West Ham at home, we've not lost to Utd at home on a while.

So yeah, Liverpool & City are the only 2 teams we seem to suffer against on a regular basis.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

With their current record against the top 3, and getting zero points from playing City, Chelsea, and Liverpool, Arsenal would finish with 70 points, which is the average amount of points 4th has gotten in the last 5 seasons. So it's right at the edge of getting what they want.

 

[FootballHQ]

Tottenham have won their last 4 at home to City. Palace reguarly get results against them.

The idea that it doesn't matter that Arsenal keep losing to these teams just screams getting the excuses in for Arteta early.

Didn't Arsenal beat Chelsea home and away last season? Also up to the other week they've had a very good record v Man. United in recent seasons. Also beat Spurs twice in 2021 and West Ham the other week (if they count). And also Leicester away twice in last 12 months.

So that's a good chunk of teams that have finished above them in last two seasons although yeah they do have big issues believing they can get anything off Man. City and Liverpool in recent years.

Think their general record in last 5 years of Wenger v top 6 was probably worse than it is under Arteta now.

Been a big critic of Arteta over last 18 months but this is easily most convincing Arsenal have looked under him in his tenure (remember 12 months back they were barely averaging a goal a game) and with some of the youth they have now they could improve further in next 18 months if they sign well in 2-3 key positions.

 

[Mastadon]

A nice run of a few good games means about as much as a bad run of a few poor games. He has to deliver 5th place at a minimum otherwise he will have failed.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Tested positive for Covid so not on touchline for City game. Hope he gets well soon.

 

[Mastadon]

Wenger was never backed the way Arteta has been. In fact name another manager at a big club that has been allowed to find his way and endure awful runs of results like Arteta has. The financial backing hes received is unprecedented at Arsenal and the job security he has is something no other top manager at a big club has.

Lets not forget that he didn’t inherit a bad team he had genuine talent to work with in Martinelli, Saka and Smith Rowe and he also had the luxury of exiling Saliba who is a massive talent by replacing him with a 50m player in White. Wenger managed Arsenal through years of financial handicaps keeping us in the top 4 the whole time. Arteta has been incredibly lucky to be backed the way he has and allowed to keep going despite delivering consecutive 8th place finishes which even the worst version of Wenger never did. No other club would have given him the time that Arsenal did.

5th place is the minimum for me. He’s got the squad now and without European football there should be no excuses.

 

[Mogget]

Wenger was never backed the way Arteta has been. In fact name another manager at a big club that has been allowed to find his way and endure awful runs of results like Arteta has. The financial backing hes received is unprecedented at Arsenal and the job security he has is something no other top manager at a big club has.

Lets not forget that he didn’t inherit a bad team he had genuine talent to work with in Martinelli, Saka and Smith Rowe and he also had the luxury of exiling Saliba who is a massive talent by replacing him with a 50m player in White. Wenger managed Arsenal through years of financial handicaps keeping us in the top 4 the whole time. Arteta has been incredibly lucky to be backed the way he has and allowed to keep going despite delivering consecutive 8th place finishes which even the worst version of Wenger never did. No other club would have given him the time that Arsenal did.

5th place is the minimum for me. He’s got the squad now and without European football there should be no excuses.

Wenger was backed in his latter years. Do you not remember that summer we spent almost £100m on Xhaka, Mustafi, and Lucas Perez?

 

[Mastadon]

Wenger was backed in his latter years. Do you not remember that summer we spent almost £100m on Xhaka, Mustafi, and Lucas Perez?

It wasn’t enough to compete was it? He wasn’t given time either and we were never as bad under Wenger. One bad season and he was out.

 

[adexkola]

Tottenham have won their last 4 at home to City. Palace reguarly get results against them.

The idea that it doesn't matter that Arsenal keep losing to these teams just screams getting the excuses in for Arteta early.

At this stage it really doesn't. You can do everything right against City or Liverpool and still get pasted; getting a result against them largely depends on luck, once the quality differential becomes too much.

Not saying Arsenal should throw those games, but use those games to emphasize the importance of proper preparation and tactics, and take whatever result you get on the day.

 

[The Corinthian]

Tested positive for Covid so not on touchline for City game. Hope he gets well soon.

Pep told him to not be on the touch line because he’s scared of his once protege and now master.

 

[GoonerBear]

It wasn’t enough to compete was it? He wasn’t given time either and we were never as bad under Wenger. One bad season and he was out.

The dynamics were totally different. We were regressing, we spent poorly his last few windows, we were watching clubs hire the new generation of managers like Pep & Klopp and start to take the league to another level.

The thought was because we hadn't had a change in manager in 20 years, that the problem was with the manager. Actually, not just him, but that things had gone stale, & a change was needed. We just had to hire a new competent coach, that was 'successful' in this new era, sign a couple of players & that would put us back in an upward trajectory.

Even when Emery struggled, the idea was to hire Arteta, sign a couple of players and be good enough to start to challenge. The start of last season changed that mindset completely, & that's when it dawned on nearly everyone that a full new reset was needed, & we had to adopt a strategy to carry that out.

 

[Mastadon]

The dynamics were totally different. We were regressing, we spent poorly his last few windows, we were watching clubs hire the new generation of managers like Pep & Klopp and start to take the league to another level.

The thought was because we hadn't had a change in manager in 20 years, that the problem was with the manager. Actually, not just him, but that things had gone stale, & a change was needed. We just had to hire a new competent coach, that was 'successful' in this new era, sign a couple of players & that would put us back in an upward trajectory.

Even when Emery struggled, the idea was to hire Arteta, sign a couple of players and be good enough to start to challenge. The start of last season changed that mindset completely, & that's when it dawned on nearly everyone that a full new reset was needed, & we had to adopt a strategy to carry that out.

How much have we spent since Wenger left?Hard to believe Wenger wouldn’t have done a better job with that money and the youngsters we already had. Certainly Wenger at his worst never came near last seasons depths.

You know what the real change has been? Our standards.

 

[GoonerBear]

How much have we spent since Wenger left?Hard to believe Wenger wouldn’t have done a better job with that money and the youngsters we already had. Certainly Wenger at his worst never came near last seasons depths.

You know what the real change has been? Our standards.

Probably not, but at some time you have to cut the apron strings, & then we'd likely go through the same scenario just a few years later.