Was always my worry that he'd struggle to find someone stupid enough to pay a 29 year old an undeserved wage when he regularly has extended periods during recent seasons injured.
Pogba
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
What would we estimate the total amount United have spent on Pogba — transfer fee plus wages — over the six years? £150 million?
Insuring the fans intelligence? Really?
We were bottom of the league for all pressing defensive actions this season. Fatigue doesn’t come into it. I think we’ve seen that Ole was more than happy to sign, re sign and stock the squad to the extent of it being the most bloated and best paid squad in the country, certainly in this clubs history. Mostl likely so he could rotate and not burn the players out. What he did with those players is his own business. They certainly weren’t pressing anyway! Yes he obviously preferred to play certain players regardless of fitness and form but what has that got to do with giving up on pressing or what I said in my first post? From his second season on he had a deep enough squad to rotate and keep up a decent level of effort off the ball and even that was too muchI think RR is going to build the team around Pogba
PP will sign the new contract and wouldnt surprise me if he gets the armband aswell as the sweetener.
All my opinions, and yes I know 99% of this thread will be outraged, but I wont be one of them.
PP will sign the new contract and wouldnt surprise me if he gets the armband aswell as the sweetener.
All my opinions, and yes I know 99% of this thread will be outraged, but I wont be one of them.
Insuring the fans intelligence? Really?
The answer to your question is in the first sentence of my post, surely you can put it together? When you don't rest(rotate) the team properly, the answer to injuries/fatigue is to reduce intensity, that's surely obvious?
Yea and we had and still have a massive squad. Consistent Intensity Workrate and the kind of intelligent rotation that hopefully goes along with that shouldn’t be an issue with such a big squad? Ole bottled it. Look at Ralf now picking more intense players and upping energy even to the detriment of quality on the ball. The days of United walking around looking pained when they are tired “because he always plays his favourites” are hopefully over as an excuse. Bruno Rashford AWB Maguire and Shaw have all been benched under Ralf. All players who played pretty much every game under Ole regardless of form and fitness. What does that say to you? Insulting the fans intelligence
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Paul in this team would add so much creativity. I never got the hate for him. He is a modern mercenary like most players. There is just too much money in football to not be an a***** as a player. He is just an honest one.
But why though? He's one of our best players, if he's fit he should play, whether he's signing a new contract or not.
Yea and we had and still have a massive squad. Consistent Intensity Workrate and the kind of intelligent rotation that hopefully goes along with that shouldn’t be an issue with such a big squad? Ole bottled it. Look at Ralf now picking more intense players and upping energy. The days of United walking around looking pained when they are tired “because he always plays his favourites” are hopefully over as an excuse. Bruno Rashford AWB Maguire and Shaw have all been benched under Ralf. All players who played pretty much every game under Ole regardless of form and fitness. What does that say to you? Insulting the fans intelligence
It tells me that Ole was a flawed manager, not that he wanted to be friends with players, because he was doing it for players that he eventually barely played like Lingard, Smalling, Young, Martial or Matic. The point about intelligence is that you see the problem, you are aware of the context but somehow decides to got with the tabloid crap instead of simply pointing the finger at an issue that has nothing to do with trying to be friend with players. Ole was a flawed manager, who would stick to a 11 that worked until it is completely destroyed instead of tweaking it and rotating players in order to make it sustainable.
I agree. We are paying his wages whether we use him or not, right? It's not like him playing will prevent a promising youth player from getting experience... so there's really no downside except for if Pogba plays a stinker.
He will be injured until an important champions league game..
Pogba is one of the players that don't fit the mercenary tag, he is 28 and has moved twice in his professional career.
I have a thread prepared for this eventuality. Hopefully I won't need to use it.
I’d like to add that when you play a proper effective system that demands work rate as standard you don’t always need to pick your best 11 players to just figure it like Ole seemed to do. You pick the majority of your fittest players first and foremost and then work backwards. If you have 9-10 high quality players with solid instructions on what to do and genuinely working really hard for each other the result will come. The way Ole played the game we always needed the best players out there to give us a chance of scraping through. Sometimes it was great to watch but a lot of the time it was needlessly aimless.
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Exactly. we agree on that. Ole was shortsighted and his management probably caused more tension in the team than friends.
For someone who'll be about 29 and a half at the start of next season?
Can't see it.
He's got great talent, there's no doubt. He doesn't do it often enough (he's not alone there) to justify some huge "stay here" wages or a chunky signing on fee/still high wages.
I'd offer him £200k/week and good bonuses for certain performance criteria.
Anything else, leave. Do we have someone to replace him who's as talented.. probably not (though Bruno playing deeper perhaps takes the position Pogba would play). Do we desperately NEED to pay through the nose for an aging player who gives you 5-10 top performances per year.. no.
I'm happy to see him leave but I've no doubt he'll get big money elsewhere on a free transfer. Regardless of performance on the pitch he's also one of the most marketable players in the world. Even Herrera left for a rumoured £300k a week at 29.
The litmus test for where we're heading. Quality player that would be useful to have in the squad but not for the wage demands/contract length, stage of his career, agent, recent injury woes. A well run club takes the Pogba money and goes after a top 18-25 year old.
Barcelona in the summer could sign him. The issue is why they want him having that position well covered. I would be surprised if Barcelona were interested. I think he will only have an offer from Psg and maybe Juventus.
There’s still a top 5 midfield player in the world in there. Shame we never had a great team around him nor did he ever seem to try hard enough to be the driving force in the team.
Still convinced that he’s a world class player in a good team. Just look at him in the Euros and at the start of the season for us.
Still convinced that he’s a world class player in a good team. Just look at him in the Euros and at the start of the season for us.
Me neither, I don't even understand the desperation to see him leave. Is he that unlikable? Pogba may not be consistently great but his bad days are still fairly useful. I think it's absolutely mental we haven't played system football since he got here. The deeper midfielders are the ones who are naturally fecked by a lack of options because they almost always receive every pass in a crowded zone. Having no supporting movement around them is actively setting them to fail. Don't get me wrong, Pogba has underperformed because of Pogba but not Pogba alone.
Only thing I can say to people who don't like is that if RR thinks he can use him then shut the hell up, back the manager's decision at least till he fails and stop trying to force your preferences on everyone.
Excuses after excuses.
Pogba needs a good environment, Pogba needs a better manager, Pogba needs better players around him. You would think if a player was semi decent he'd manage not playing in the perfect conditions.
68 PL games he's missed through injuries in 5 and a bit years.
Only 8 games shy of 2 full PL campaigns.
If we give him this contract then this club is finished. He can't get a better deal anywhere else for a reason.
Only 8 games shy of 2 full PL campaigns.
If we give him this contract then this club is finished. He can't get a better deal anywhere else for a reason.
I'm REALLY stretching this and giving him the benefit of a huge doubt but considering he's played for two managers here-one an obnoxious toxic guy, the other an apparently naive coach with only counter attacking tactics- maybe a third manager might get the best of him and finally play that 4-3-3 system that we all know is best for his abilities. We know Jose and Ole loved the 4-2-3-1 formation for obvious reasons but maybe a change in manager and a change in shape can finally get the best out of Pogba and we can see that guy who practically earned Ole his job with that spell of form a few years back.
Even i'm not convinced at all by what i've just written but if he stays i just have to hope. It doesn't excuse 5-6 years of disappointment but maybe the Pogba story might end on a happy note.
Where that leaves Bruno is another topic
Even i'm not convinced at all by what i've just written
but if he stays i just have to hope. It doesn't excuse 5-6 years of disappointment but maybe the Pogba story might end on a happy note.Where that leaves Bruno is another topic
Excuses, excuses... clearly you didnt read what I put...
What player performs amazingly in a non functional team? You put messi in a team that doesn't suit him and he won't be the same messi, same for ronaldo and for any player.
Tell me is it excuses excuses for rashford? greenwood? bruno now? de gea? maguire? shaw? list goes on and on.
Every argument you make against pogba you can make for every united player, so I hope you keep the same energy in all the player performance threads.
He never showed that he deserves a new contract or never tried to silent his greedy agent, he never showed consistency or tried his best with us. Always seemed that his mind is flying somewhere. IMO RR must have talked honestly with Paul and knows exactly what’s going on in his mind.
I miss read the tweet as the opposite, but for the contract Pogba is reportedly being offered it doesn’t make any sense for anyone but him for him to extend.
Oh absolutely. Let’s hope it isn’t true.
If it is, my hopes that the club is finally moving in the right direction following nearly nine years of Ed Woodward will be severely challenged
He is a snake. There I called it.
I agree that he has been dealt a bad hand. He rejoined us hoping we will kick off from there, build a strong team, get an ambition manager and then compete for major honors every year. That hasn't happened. However, Pogba is one of the major reasons why. He rarely takes responsibility and demonstrates any leadership. He is an embellishment, something you put on to make a team better than perfect. He can never be the backbone of a team. The lad just doesn't have the mentality for it.
He only produces when he has to prove his critics wrong. He has been called out several times for his lack of maturity and professionalism and each time he has come back strongly. But that kind of motivation rarely lasts. He just doesn't have the mentality to play in a team that is trying to close the gap on the league leaders. He stinks up the place, earns a heavy wage but acts as if he owes the club nothing. His agent spews bullshit as and when he feels like.
All in all, the sooner he leaves the better because he is stinking up the whole place.
I agree that he has been dealt a bad hand. He rejoined us hoping we will kick off from there, build a strong team, get an ambition manager and then compete for major honors every year. That hasn't happened. However, Pogba is one of the major reasons why. He rarely takes responsibility and demonstrates any leadership. He is an embellishment, something you put on to make a team better than perfect. He can never be the backbone of a team. The lad just doesn't have the mentality for it.
He only produces when he has to prove his critics wrong. He has been called out several times for his lack of maturity and professionalism and each time he has come back strongly. But that kind of motivation rarely lasts. He just doesn't have the mentality to play in a team that is trying to close the gap on the league leaders. He stinks up the place, earns a heavy wage but acts as if he owes the club nothing. His agent spews bullshit as and when he feels like.
All in all, the sooner he leaves the better because he is stinking up the whole place.
Oh no!!! That will be my worst fears coming true.
A player who has done so less in 5 years will now be getting 400k pw for being a crock and s**t talking about the club.
He's barely even trained under Ralf let alone played to have such an opinion. There will be stories already written about a fall out for the first time he is left out. Why do people still fall for this stuff?
This may just be Pogba’s camp looking for a reason as to why he may extend the contract in the end. This sounds a lot better than “it’s a feck tonne of money and everyone else was offering less than half of this amount”
Are we moving the franchise to Dubai?
With France he plays quite much as a central midfielder, no?
His Juve spell is a not something to compare for me, but my point is that he is often better when the occasion is bigger. Italy = Slow league, slow teams, little pressure when on the ball compared to England, which seems to be a thing with him here. Has been pressured off the ball loads of times leading to goals and dangerous attacks. And almost all of those situations against mid to lowertable teams.
He clearly has the skills to avoid it and do a simple pass, but it often happens because he's simply not focused and mentally prepared to handle opponents pressing him. His bottom level is just quite bad. Some players, like Carrick rarely had such lows when playing bad. So his depths of inconsistency (if that's a term) is also quite also high compared to other world class players.
Playing as central midfielder says nothing though. At United Pogba has generally been expected to be the main creator, organizer and destroyer when he is neither of these and is more of a support player, jack of all trades master of none. For France the technical leader is Griezmann and the defending leaders are Kanté and Varane with Griezmann being the one leading and organization the forwards defensively. Pogba has brainfarts for France, the same he has for United but two things mitigate them, his teammates give him instructions on the field and some of them know how to compensate for others, yet sometimes he ends up doing silly things like against Turkey where he tried to shield the ball instead of hoofing it.
I've said all along that I think he will stay. Will be glad when the new contract is signed.
In our own team? Bruno, Ronaldo, De Gea all of them had entire campaigns were they carried the team. Though the current version of Ronaldo who is underperforming is still our top scorer.
Pogba has yet to have a single season where he puts in consistent WC performances for us for the entire 38 games. He is the more talented version of Bailly at CM. Has 4-5 amazing games. Everyone thinks he's turning a corner and turning into this amazing player. Only to be followed by 2-3 abysmal performances and then getting injured.
This is the Bailly cycle, but this is also the Pogba cycle. The sooner more fans realize this, the better for our team.
With all these complaints about him you'd think this team is so much better off without him, instead our football is hopeless and we're back to DDG doing everyone's job for them.